Times, they are changing

[UKHamlet]

Looks like Tuco is going to get his wish for an East-West setup. Except that expediency will demand they be called Cardiff and Swansea.


https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... h-32057189

Key potential developments are:

• whether there should be a reduction to three or two regional men’s teams, to ensure that we have teams that can compete at the top of the professional game
  
  further investment in the SRC to strengthen the semi-professional game in Wales.
  
  a significant investment in player development and pathways
  
  a national centre providing a place of development for our elite players, coaches and support staff
  
  the best rugby leadership and decision-making model for the whole of the professional game in Wales
  
  our professional sides being home to both our men’s and women’s teams
  
  the funding model to underpin success, to ensure that the new model is financially sustainable and that teams are long-term investable propositions in partnership with the WRU.

The WRU say the current system in Wales which includes national teams, professional clubs, community clubs, academies, universities and schools isn’t delivering consistent success on the field and isn’t currently financially sustainable given the likely investment required, even with the recent actions taken to increase financial resources.

Based on its extensive work over the past 18 months, including ongoing consultation with the four professional men’s clubs, the WRU is therefore considering a more radical strategy focused on maximising investment and reforming the whole structure of professional rugby in Wales.

[Sandydragon]

Looks like Tuco is going to get his wish for an East-West setup. Except that expediency will demand they be called Cardiff and Swansea.


https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... h-32057189

Key potential developments are:

• whether there should be a reduction to three or two regional men’s teams, to ensure that we have teams that can compete at the top of the professional game
  
  further investment in the SRC to strengthen the semi-professional game in Wales.
  
  a significant investment in player development and pathways
  
  a national centre providing a place of development for our elite players, coaches and support staff
  
  the best rugby leadership and decision-making model for the whole of the professional game in Wales
  
  our professional sides being home to both our men’s and women’s teams
  
  the funding model to underpin success, to ensure that the new model is financially sustainable and that teams are long-term investable propositions in partnership with the WRU.

The WRU say the current system in Wales which includes national teams, professional clubs, community clubs, academies, universities and schools isn’t delivering consistent success on the field and isn’t currently financially sustainable given the likely investment required, even with the recent actions taken to increase financial resources.

Based on its extensive work over the past 18 months, including ongoing consultation with the four professional men’s clubs, the WRU is therefore considering a more radical strategy focused on maximising investment and reforming the whole structure of professional rugby in Wales.

Using the initial club names would be a disaster. I don’t see any dragons fans supporting Cardiff. An east Wales team that covered the whole region might work, but if this is just seen as a stitch up to rescue Cardiff then this will land poorly.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Hopefully they'll use this threat to force one or two regions to accept significantly reduced funding rather than actually going through with it. I can't see a reduction in the number of regions being a positive move for Wales.

[Buggaluggs]

What was different 15 or so years ago when our academies were considered so highly? Wales had a conveyor belt of outstanding players.

[Ross. S]

What was different 15 or so years ago when our academies were considered so highly? Wales had a conveyor belt of outstanding players.

The money was invested in executives and board members rather than the regions and academies

[Sandydragon]

What was different 15 or so years ago when our academies were considered so highly? Wales had a conveyor belt of outstanding players.

That’s a damn fine question.

Were we just lucky? (I don’t believe that)

Did Roger Lewis destroy the regions in favour of maximising Team Wales?

Did the WRU take their eye off the ball and focus on non pro rugby to the detriment of the regions and Wales( amateur rugby, hotels, etc)

Have the regions been badly run and only interested in themselves?

Did Covid screw us over (really hasn’t helped but frankly the cracks were there before then).

Personally I think there are multiple valid answers to the question; the relationship between the WRU and the regions has been poisonous for too long and clearly Gatland was papering over the cracks with the national team, knowing that there wasn’t the talent pool to follow on.

[Son of Mathonwy]

What was different 15 or so years ago when our academies were considered so highly? Wales had a conveyor belt of outstanding players.

That’s a damn fine question.

Were we just lucky? (I don’t believe that)

Did Roger Lewis destroy the regions in favour of maximising Team Wales?

Did the WRU take their eye off the ball and focus on non pro rugby to the detriment of the regions and Wales( amateur rugby, hotels, etc)

Have the regions been badly run and only interested in themselves?

Did Covid screw us over (really hasn’t helped but frankly the cracks were there before then).

Personally I think there are multiple valid answers to the question; the relationship between the WRU and the regions has been poisonous for too long and clearly Gatland was papering over the cracks with the national team, knowing that there wasn’t the talent pool to follow on.

Not sure how much of a factor it was but we used to have a national academy.

[Sandydragon]

What was different 15 or so years ago when our academies were considered so highly? Wales had a conveyor belt of outstanding players.

That’s a damn fine question.

Were we just lucky? (I don’t believe that)

Did Roger Lewis destroy the regions in favour of maximising Team Wales?

Did the WRU take their eye off the ball and focus on non pro rugby to the detriment of the regions and Wales( amateur rugby, hotels, etc)

Have the regions been badly run and only interested in themselves?

Did Covid screw us over (really hasn’t helped but frankly the cracks were there before then).

Personally I think there are multiple valid answers to the question; the relationship between the WRU and the regions has been poisonous for too long and clearly Gatland was papering over the cracks with the national team, knowing that there wasn’t the talent pool to follow on.

Not sure how much of a factor it was but we used to have a national academy.

I’d forgotten to add that- a crucial point

[Numbers]

Looks like Tuco is going to get his wish for an East-West setup. Except that expediency will demand they be called Cardiff and Swansea.


https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... h-32057189

Key potential developments are:

• whether there should be a reduction to three or two regional men’s teams, to ensure that we have teams that can compete at the top of the professional game
  
  further investment in the SRC to strengthen the semi-professional game in Wales.
  
  a significant investment in player development and pathways
  
  a national centre providing a place of development for our elite players, coaches and support staff
  
  the best rugby leadership and decision-making model for the whole of the professional game in Wales
  
  our professional sides being home to both our men’s and women’s teams
  
  the funding model to underpin success, to ensure that the new model is financially sustainable and that teams are long-term investable propositions in partnership with the WRU.

The WRU say the current system in Wales which includes national teams, professional clubs, community clubs, academies, universities and schools isn’t delivering consistent success on the field and isn’t currently financially sustainable given the likely investment required, even with the recent actions taken to increase financial resources.

Based on its extensive work over the past 18 months, including ongoing consultation with the four professional men’s clubs, the WRU is therefore considering a more radical strategy focused on maximising investment and reforming the whole structure of professional rugby in Wales.

I think it's more likely we'll go down to three regions with one team in West Wales, I doubt that would be called Swansea as that isn't even in the Ospreys name now, the Scarlets would be left with a Stadium with no team to play there, I would have thought from a logistical perspective the new team would play at PYS especially as the Ospreys currently are moving back to St Helens which isn't as good a venue.

As Sandy says no-one from Newport is going to support a team branded as Cardiff.

[Tuco Ramirez]

talk is that Dragons owners have chance to buy Cardiff, merge the two. then sort Glanmore's gap so CAP will be out of action but obv Dave parade will be used. Dave parade on completion then could be sold on or developed?. Ospreys and Scarlets merger may be more straight forward as PYS already in situ and close to Swansea.

What they need to do is rename both and change colors and i think they may get a real buy in from the fan base of both east and west Weales.

[Sandydragon]

The relationship between the WRU and the new entities is crucial. Will they be 100% union owned? With the exception of Cardiff, that will cost the WRU a lot of money I’d suggest, and what stadia would they use? Better to make use of existing infrastructure which means what’s there now.

Either ospreys and Scarlets merge, which seems to be incredibly unfair based on results over the years but financially is probably the most obvious, or we go east and west. The first option would disenfranchise neath and Swansea supporters if handled poorly and part of me thinks for the sake of a full reset we just go the whole hog and do away with the club names and go for east and west, maybe with a central team if we want three.

The only good thing is the tight deadline. Hopefully this won’t drag on, but I’d expect some legal challenges from clubs who don’t like the outcomes

[Sandydragon]

talk is that Dragons owners have chance to buy Cardiff, merge the two. then sort Glanmore's gap so CAP will be out of action but obv Dave parade will be used. Dave parade on completion then could be sold on or developed?. Ospreys and Scarlets merger may be more straight forward as PYS already in situ and close to Swansea.

What they need to do is rename both and change colors and i think they may get a real buy in from the fan base of both east and west Weales.

If dragons bought Cardiff to create a team that was properly eastern region then I think that would get more support.

Dave Parade will still be used by Newport RFC, but no reason why the eastern team couldn’t play some home matches there, plus use other suitable stadia in the region

[Tuco Ramirez]

talk is that Dragons owners have chance to buy Cardiff, merge the two. then sort Glanmore's gap so CAP will be out of action but obv Dave parade will be used. Dave parade on completion then could be sold on or developed?. Ospreys and Scarlets merger may be more straight forward as PYS already in situ and close to Swansea.

What they need to do is rename both and change colors and i think they may get a real buy in from the fan base of both east and west Weales.

If dragons bought Cardiff to create a team that was properly eastern region then I think that would get more support.

Dave Parade will still be used by Newport RFC, but no reason why the eastern team couldn’t play some home matches there, plus use other suitable stadia in the region

CARDIFF BLUE DRAGONS

This is what i am hearing re East Wales, It pretty straightforward due to WRU ownership of Cardiff and Dave Parade etc. CAP to be redeveloped (Glamnmores Gap) so games cannot be played there anyway so will give the chance to use DP in the short term Not sure what will happen to ground further down the line re Newport RFC and County FC. Possible buy for football club? redevelopment? who knows.

[Sandydragon]

Even after redeveloping CAP, abandoning Rodney Parade entirely would make no sense. If the new region is only to play in Cardiff then it’s basically Cardiff Blues and won’t attract extra support. Our experience of the last 20 odd years should reach us that much.

[Tuco Ramirez]

thats what i have heard.

[UKHamlet]

Any new entities based on E/W need to be more imaginatively named.

[Tuco Ramirez]

Any new entities based on E/W need to be more imaginatively named.

Cardiff Dragons .....

[Son of Mathonwy]

If you lose teams, you lose fans. And from bitter experience we know how unwilling the Welsh are to embrace new combined entities. Defund one or two of the regions but have them continue to exist with predominantly young (and cheap) players. Our young players get developed, the fans at least have something to support. Sure they won't win much but then the Dragons can barely win a match these days so what's to lose?

[Sandydragon]

If you lose teams, you lose fans. And from bitter experience we know how unwilling the Welsh are to embrace new combined entities. Defund one or two of the regions but have them continue to exist with predominantly young (and cheap) players. Our young players get developed, the fans at least have something to support. Sure they won't win much but then the Dragons can barely win a match these days so what's to lose?

The tragic thing is we are recruiting well for next season.

But, I totally agree that less teams mean less fans u less something radically changes, ie you scrap all four regions, leave the old clubs as they are, and create two new entities which can then be more inclusive.