USA v England, Sat 19/07. 10.05pm Rugbypass & RFU YouTube

[FKAS]

IFW is a good bit better than Sleightholme IMO.

It feels like a few months out has led to folks forgetting how good he is.

Agreed.

I can see Sleightholme struggling to get a spot in the team with Roebuck playing so well and Freeman to come back in as well as IFW.

[Mr Mwenda]

IFW is a good bit better than Sleightholme IMO.

It feels like a few months out has led to folks forgetting how good he is.

This.

[Oakboy]

IFW is a good bit better than Sleightholme IMO.

It feels like a few months out has led to folks forgetting how good he is.

Exactly. Ask any opposition HC who they fear most in an England XV and he'd be right up there. Getting him back up to speed is simply more important than trying somebody else. I'm all for development but IFW is a special case.

[Banquo]

IFW is a good bit better than Sleightholme IMO.

It feels like a few months out has led to folks forgetting how good he is.

No he’s very good with the ball. But his defence, not so much. Ditto Sleightholme tbh, but different players. It could also be that a few months out have improved him in the eyes of er…. ‘Folks’
To be clear I’d pick him on the left and Freeman (who I think is our best wing) on the right every time apart from this pointless match with no upside tbh. An opposed training session would ‘bring him up to more speed’

[R3dders]

Yes, they both have issues in defence. But sleightholme will score a try a game.

I've no doubt that IFW will be the coach and fan favourite and go on to have a great career, while Sleights will be a fringe player, but I've also no doubt that Sleights would score shitloads more tries if he got the gig.

[Banquo]

Yes, they both have issues in defence. But sleightholme will score a try a game.

I've no doubt that IFW will be the coach and fan favourite and go on to have a great career, while Sleights will be a fringe player, but I've also no doubt that Sleights would score shitloads more tries if he got the gig.

They are different players in style, so it depends what you want/need. I like both as players, and hope that their 'opportunities to improve' have specific work ons, and that Sleightholme esp gets rid of his sick-note ness.

[Scrumhead]

Yes, they both have issues in defence. But sleightholme will score a try a game.

I've no doubt that IFW will be the coach and fan favourite and go on to have a great career, while Sleights will be a fringe player, but I've also no doubt that Sleights would score shitloads more tries if he got the gig.

On what basis though? There’s literally 0 evidence to support that.

Stats-wise, they’re very similar. Currently Sleightholme has 6 tries from 8 games to IFW’s 5 in 8. Minutes played are almost identical. IFW is well ahead on pretty much all other stats (with the exception of clean breaks - 9 to Sleightholme’s 10.

Don’t get me wrong, I rate Sleightholme but to suggest he’d score ‘shitloads more tries if he got the gig’ is somewhat fanciful.

[LongForgotten]

Is Isiekwe injured? Seems pretty harsh for him not to make the 23.

[R3dders]

Yes, they both have issues in defence. But sleightholme will score a try a game.

I've no doubt that IFW will be the coach and fan favourite and go on to have a great career, while Sleights will be a fringe player, but I've also no doubt that Sleights would score shitloads more tries if he got the gig.

On what basis though? There’s literally 0 evidence to support that.

Stats-wise, they’re very similar. Currently Sleightholme has 6 tries from 8 games to IFW’s 5 in 8. Minutes played are almost identical. IFW is well ahead on pretty much all other stats (with the exception of clean breaks - 9 to Sleightholme’s 10.

Don’t get me wrong, I rate Sleightholme but to suggest he’d score ‘shitloads more tries if he got the gig’ is somewhat fanciful.

IFW has 9 games, although I concede the minutes are similar.

I'd argue that his 17 minutes away in NZ shouldn't really count as 2 games. Last season OS played 6 games and scored 6 tries. He's a try machine. Unfortunately as above he's a bit of a sick note. He definitely has a better tacking technique than IFW though

[Scrumhead]

Tries aren’t the only measure. Particularly when 2 of Sleightholme’s were against Italy (they both have a try vs. Japan).

My impression is that IFW makes more of an overall contribution around the park and while that is subjective, the stats for carries, metres per carrying and metres suggest that it’s probably correct.

Anyway, my point was simply that your opinion that Sleightholme would score loads more tries is simply that - an opinion. The facts suggests it’s very close.

I personally favour IFW, but I wouldn’t be upset if Sleightholme was picked, or Murley for that matter. I prefer all three to Muir, but he’s also been good so it’s an excellent problem to have.

[jngf]

I quite like that actually. Question mark over IFW and CCS/Hill positional faffing aside.

I'm assuming Atkinson (like Tom Willis) has simply shown enough and gets a rest, while we want to have (more of) a look at Ojomoh and Northmore. Northmore clearly did something to get the start last week and didn't seem like he did much wrong in the game?

Shame Afo doesn't get a look in but I guess he's still deemed a bit raw. Still, it's the USA.

Putting aside the ludicrous reactions Dombrandt gets to some fairly solid, even good, cameos from the bench, he has to take this chance to show something more. Willis has set the standard, even if he can seemingly only do it for 55 minutes. We saw Dombrandt make one aggressive run, in response to an error, and it looked so unusual for him.

With Willis, Dombrandt and CCS we have the scope to play sizeable no.8 options for an all court game. Willis to do the direct gain line carrying tying in defenders. CCS in a similar vein but but carrying a (slightly) bit more wider and explosively punching holes through that defensive line and Dombrandt for the flair and panache, acting like an extra threequarter when game opens up. If these three could focus on being the 3rd line out option too then we can exploit the pace of our fastest but smaller backrows especially Earl and Pollack on the flanks as well as avoiding having to shoehorn locks into that 6 jersey!

[Puja]

Just as a note, the original time on the thread title was wrong - the game's kicking off 10.05pm in UK time.

Puja

[jngf]

I also think that regardless of how Lions pans out, that Earl, Underhill, Curry brothers and indeed Jack Willis and Lewis Ludlam all have a part to play in build up to next World Cup ( and I’d still think they’d get nod over Pepper, Pollack and any other newer back rows).

With right balance and injury avoidance, I could see any of Underhill, T Curry and Jack Willis and Ludlam all doing nicely at 6 - likewise Underhill, Jack Willis, B Curry and Earl all doing nicely at 7 ( though respective styles are markedly different).

[Danno]

Dude it's not 2022 anymore

[jngf]

Dude it's not 2022 anymore

I know, we’re no longer obliged to wear strappy cloths over our mouths

[Banquo]

Weird.

Anyway- when did CCS last play 8?

[FKAS]

Weird.

Anyway- when did CCS last play 8?

Last start at 8 was April this year and before that October last year. Last start at lock was April this year. He's had one more start at 8 than lock for Quins this season despite him definitely not being a lock apparently.

Personally think being versatile will be key to him getting selected. Marcus Smith has found out the same thing.