Why cutting two regions is a mistake

[UKHamlet]

This is Squidge Rugby's take on it. He has a good point. I'm uneasy about the clamour to reduce the regions to two. It's the simplistic argument, that appeals to the hard of thinking, and superficially seems to make sense, but in fact misses the most important point: where are the young players going to go to develop?


https://youtu.be/02VO5J6q0u4?si=bMzG8-mtGm6v-r_X

[Sandydragon]

It’s a massive risk. Regions will be under pressure to win, so they will pick established players and youngsters will get less opportunities.

Also, once you cut a team you don’t get it back. All those areas without a pro team is a massive risk.

Yet we can’t afford four regions at full funding. I’m not sure there is an easy answer unless everyone agrees to follow a route where we can get at least one team regularly competing for silverware.

[Tuco Ramirez]

because the current set up is awesome innit!

[pompey-zebra]

The Union seems to pride itself ( units opinion) in being run by people who know rugby and business. Yet most of the noises I hear is about cuts- cuts to number regions, cuts to funding, cuts to academies etc etc. Where's the strategy to grow the game? Not to cut but to invest? Maybe its there, but I havent noticed it.

I recently heard on the radio that executives in business stay on post on average around 3 years. If that's true, maybe that's part of the problem, that there's no incentive for long term growth as the execs wouldn't see the benefits in their term. I might be doing a disservice to a well meaning bunch of people with the game's interests paramount, but that hasn't been obvious ( at least to me) over the past few years.

[Donny osmond]

The SRU cut Scotland regions from 4 to 2 about 30 years ago and it nearly killed the game in Scotland. We've spent most of the years since lamenting the fact that we have too few pro teams to be able to build a meaningful pro/international game.

Don't make the same mistake.

[Son of Mathonwy]

I totally agree (as I may have mentioned once or twice ). Lose two regions, lose the best part of half of your fans - maybe more if two teams form a super-region which neither group of fans is enthused with, lose half of the top level opportunities for training, academies etc.

Reduce funding for one or two regions but keep them on life support. Even if they don't win much there is an enormous benefit to their existence.



On a tangent, I wonder if it would be an option to send 2 teams to the Premiership (clearly 4 is a big ask) and leave the other two in the URC?

[Numbers]

I think 3 teams would be the logical step with the Ospreys and Scarlets merging as they play very close to each other already. That is the only realistic step to take imo and tho as a Scarlets fan I wiouldn't be best pleased about it there's not much more that can be done to save us from this mess.

Whereas there is an argument to say "where will all the young players go" that only stacks up if they are of sufficient quality to make those teams, SRC is there for them to develop and if they are deemed good enough they get a chance with the region.

[Tuco Ramirez]

I totally agree (as I may have mentioned once or twice ). Lose two regions, lose the best part of half of your fans - maybe more if two teams form a super-region which neither group of fans is enthused with, lose half of the top level opportunities for training, academies etc.

Reduce funding for one or two regions but keep them on life support. Even if they don't win much there is an enormous benefit to their existence.



On a tangent, I wonder if it would be an option to send 2 teams to the Premiership (clearly 4 is a big ask) and leave the other two in the URC?

some people may return if the divide is done correctly

[Son of Mathonwy]

I think 3 teams would be the logical step with the Ospreys and Scarlets merging as they play very close to each other already. That is the only realistic step to take imo and tho as a Scarlets fan I wiouldn't be best pleased about it there's not much more that can be done to save us from this mess.

Whereas there is an argument to say "where will all the young players go" that only stacks up if they are of sufficient quality to make those teams, SRC is there for them to develop and if they are deemed good enough they get a chance with the region.

I disagree - if there has to be a merger (and I think there shouldn't be one), it should be the two teams that have gone bankrupt, one of them having a track record of consistent failure for its entire existence.

Merging the two most successful teams would be punishment being the best at producing good players and performances . . . and staying afloat, financially. Not that that would stop the WRU.

[Son of Mathonwy]

I totally agree (as I may have mentioned once or twice ). Lose two regions, lose the best part of half of your fans - maybe more if two teams form a super-region which neither group of fans is enthused with, lose half of the top level opportunities for training, academies etc.

Reduce funding for one or two regions but keep them on life support. Even if they don't win much there is an enormous benefit to their existence.



On a tangent, I wonder if it would be an option to send 2 teams to the Premiership (clearly 4 is a big ask) and leave the other two in the URC?

some people may return if the divide is done correctly

Sure, it could be done better or worse. It could bring us victories or further decline. But I doubt that there is a correct way to do it. Perhaps a least worst way? Even at best I still think you lose fans and player development.

[Numbers]

I think 3 teams would be the logical step with the Ospreys and Scarlets merging as they play very close to each other already. That is the only realistic step to take imo and tho as a Scarlets fan I wiouldn't be best pleased about it there's not much more that can be done to save us from this mess.

Whereas there is an argument to say "where will all the young players go" that only stacks up if they are of sufficient quality to make those teams, SRC is there for them to develop and if they are deemed good enough they get a chance with the region.

I disagree - if there has to be a merger (and I think there shouldn't be one), it should be the two teams that have gone bankrupt, one of them having a track record of consistent failure for its entire existence.

Merging the two most successful teams would be punishment being the best at producing good players and performances . . . and staying afloat, financially. Not that that would stop the WRU.

I don't think it's tenable to sustain 4 regions as we stand and as the Ospreys are the only real combined region you'd have thought the Neath and Swansea supporters who started to support them wouldn't be that fickle if the name changed, I can't see Cardiff being rebranded, I think their supporters may be too fickle for that sort of a change, tho if the new entity continued to play home ganmes at CAP then they may be less picky.

The way I see it is it'll either be a west wales merger if we go down to 3 regions or the East and West scenario if it's down to 2, I think we should be able to put out 3 competitive teams with the talent pool we have at our disposal

The Scarlets have been bailed out financially on more than one occasion, including a loan from Camathernshire County Council.

[Son of Mathonwy]

I think 3 teams would be the logical step with the Ospreys and Scarlets merging as they play very close to each other already. That is the only realistic step to take imo and tho as a Scarlets fan I wiouldn't be best pleased about it there's not much more that can be done to save us from this mess.

Whereas there is an argument to say "where will all the young players go" that only stacks up if they are of sufficient quality to make those teams, SRC is there for them to develop and if they are deemed good enough they get a chance with the region.

I disagree - if there has to be a merger (and I think there shouldn't be one), it should be the two teams that have gone bankrupt, one of them having a track record of consistent failure for its entire existence.

Merging the two most successful teams would be punishment being the best at producing good players and performances . . . and staying afloat, financially. Not that that would stop the WRU.

I don't think it's tenable to sustain 4 regions as we stand and as the Ospreys are the only real combined region you'd have thought the Neath and Swansea supporters who started to support them wouldn't be that fickle if the name changed, I can't see Cardiff being rebranded, I think their supporters may be too fickle for that sort of a change, tho if the new entity continued to play home ganmes at CAP then they may be less picky.

The way I see it is it'll either be a west wales merger if we go down to 3 regions or the East and West scenario if it's down to 2, I think we should be able to put out 3 competitive teams with the talent pool we have at our disposal

The Scarlets have been bailed out financially on more than one occasion, including a loan from Camathernshire County Council.

To be honest, without seeing a financial analysis, none of us know what is really tenable. We're all guessing.

I think you could argue that forcing the Neath and Swansea supporters to shift their support again, to another, more remote regional entity might be the last straw. Plenty of them never really moved on from Neath or Swansea in the first place.

All the regions have had loans or been looked after by crazy rich welshmen - that's not the same as going bust.

[Numbers]

I disagree - if there has to be a merger (and I think there shouldn't be one), it should be the two teams that have gone bankrupt, one of them having a track record of consistent failure for its entire existence.

Merging the two most successful teams would be punishment being the best at producing good players and performances . . . and staying afloat, financially. Not that that would stop the WRU.

I don't think it's tenable to sustain 4 regions as we stand and as the Ospreys are the only real combined region you'd have thought the Neath and Swansea supporters who started to support them wouldn't be that fickle if the name changed, I can't see Cardiff being rebranded, I think their supporters may be too fickle for that sort of a change, tho if the new entity continued to play home ganmes at CAP then they may be less picky.

The way I see it is it'll either be a west wales merger if we go down to 3 regions or the East and West scenario if it's down to 2, I think we should be able to put out 3 competitive teams with the talent pool we have at our disposal

The Scarlets have been bailed out financially on more than one occasion, including a loan from Camathernshire County Council.

To be honest, without seeing a financial analysis, none of us know what is really tenable. We're all guessing.

I think you could argue that forcing the Neath and Swansea supporters to shift their support again, to another, more remote regional entity might be the last straw. Plenty of them never really moved on from Neath or Swansea in the first place.

All the regions have had loans or been looked after by crazy rich welshmen - that's not the same as going bust.

Haven't the WRU touted that as a reason for the reduction, if it was sustainable then they wouldn't be making changes or am I reading into this all wrong?

[Sandydragon]

A few months ago, the offer was still on the table for four regions.

Either the financials have changes and we can afford only two or three now, or the WRU have just lost patients with the hold out and want fewer regions but perhaps more WRU control.