First Nations & Pasifika XV v British & Irish Lions - Tuesday 22 July Kick-off: 11.00 BST

[Banquo]

His chip for Osbornes try was excellent, and a nice dummy and assist for Duhan. But he looked stilted a lot of the time.

Have to disagree on the chip, it bounced into Osbournes arms, any other bounce and its a wasted possession. The dummy and give for VDM was class tho.

Yeah the replay from behind the posts does make it look incredibly fortunate, with a couple of Aussies in cover and Osborne not even that close to where the ball initially lands.

Still, it was a try in the end so hard to argue too much. I’m constantly torn in not wanting to tear the guy down but being baffled by the OTT praise. Even the pass for the Duhan try you’d think might register as being a f**k-up if he hadn’t done it.

I rewatched it and it was very well done imo. Yeah can say lucky bounce but it landed where no defender could field it on the full, and enough height for a decent bounce, and off his left foot. The harder you practice etc etc

[R3dders]

Barclay looking on awkwardly as a pair of 100 cap flyhalves cream their pants over that Farrell performance. Weird. I guess we really will never understand it.

I saw several moments where he looked calm and kept his shoulders square, sure, but tended to stand completely still and just pop it to somebody else who was hardly moving either.

Most of it was… fine (except the stupid grubbers) but I can’t understand how this is prompting reactions like ‘test match animal. Get him in the 23’ from people like McGeechan.

his passing and timing of run and pass just can look so stilted. Sure he does some good stuff- even great, left footed chip for Osborne try was bloody good. But the jisming...and ignoring the shit stuff, two awful passes out the back....two missed tackles. He was ok today in the main, but with some amateur bits.

It's the passes out the back. They are excruciating. So poorly executed they take the team by surprise.

We're in their 22, attacking lineout. He messes up the drag-back and we get turned over. Simply shipping it down the line probably results in a try, not a word is said.



Meanwhile he converts a 2-on-1 and ROG is creaming himself.

[R3dders]

His chip for Osbornes try was excellent, and a nice dummy and assist for Duhan. But he looked stilted a lot of the time.

Have to disagree on the chip, it bounced into Osbournes arms, any other bounce and its a wasted possession. The dummy and give for VDM was class tho.

Yeah the replay from behind the posts does make it look incredibly fortunate, with a couple of Aussies in cover and Osborne not even that close to where the ball initially lands.

Still, it was a try in the end so hard to argue too much. I’m constantly torn in not wanting to tear the guy down but being baffled by the OTT praise. Even the pass for the Duhan try you’d think might register as being a f**k-up if he hadn’t done it.

Twas a 2 on 1 after all...

[Banquo]

Barclay looking on awkwardly as a pair of 100 cap flyhalves cream their pants over that Farrell performance. Weird. I guess we really will never understand it.

I saw several moments where he looked calm and kept his shoulders square, sure, but tended to stand completely still and just pop it to somebody else who was hardly moving either.

Most of it was… fine (except the stupid grubbers) but I can’t understand how this is prompting reactions like ‘test match animal. Get him in the 23’ from people like McGeechan.

his passing and timing of run and pass just can look so stilted. Sure he does some good stuff- even great, left footed chip for Osborne try was bloody good. But the jisming...and ignoring the shit stuff, two awful passes out the back....two missed tackles. He was ok today in the main, but with some amateur bits.

It's the passes out the back. They are excruciating. So poorly executed they take the team by surprise.

We're in their 22, attacking lineout. He messes up the drag-back and we get turned over. Simply shipping it down the line probably results in a try, not a word is said.



Meanwhile he converts a 2-on-1 and ROG is creaming himself.

Yus. It’s all so odd

[Banquo]

Barclay looking on awkwardly as a pair of 100 cap flyhalves cream their pants over that Farrell performance. Weird. I guess we really will never understand it.

I saw several moments where he looked calm and kept his shoulders square, sure, but tended to stand completely still and just pop it to somebody else who was hardly moving either.

Most of it was… fine (except the stupid grubbers) but I can’t understand how this is prompting reactions like ‘test match animal. Get him in the 23’ from people like McGeechan.

his passing and timing of run and pass just can look so stilted. Sure he does some good stuff- even great, left footed chip for Osborne try was bloody good. But the jisming...and ignoring the shit stuff, two awful passes out the back....two missed tackles. He was ok today in the main, but with some amateur bits.

It's the passes out the back. They are excruciating. So poorly executed they take the team by surprise.

We're in their 22, attacking lineout. He messes up the drag-back and we get turned over. Simply shipping it down the line probably results in a try, not a word is said.



Meanwhile he converts a 2-on-1 and ROG is creaming himself.

There was also a moment where a long pass off his left hand is a run in down the right. But he can’t do that without a big wind up, so died with it. Pfft

[Donny osmond]

His chip for Osbornes try was excellent, and a nice dummy and assist for Duhan. But he looked stilted a lot of the time.

Have to disagree on the chip, it bounced into Osbournes arms, any other bounce and its a wasted possession. The dummy and give for VDM was class tho.

I’ll happily disagree again . Excellent bit of skill, left foot landed it where both chasers had a chance.

fair enough

[pjm1]

his passing and timing of run and pass just can look so stilted. Sure he does some good stuff- even great, left footed chip for Osborne try was bloody good. But the jisming...and ignoring the shit stuff, two awful passes out the back....two missed tackles. He was ok today in the main, but with some amateur bits.

It's the passes out the back. They are excruciating. So poorly executed they take the team by surprise.

We're in their 22, attacking lineout. He messes up the drag-back and we get turned over. Simply shipping it down the line probably results in a try, not a word is said.



Meanwhile he converts a 2-on-1 and ROG is creaming himself.

Yus. It’s all so odd

It is although this is clearly “a move” - look at the shape the rest of the line are running… apart from the poorly executed and totally telegraphed pull back, there aren’t really a whole load of other options on.

It is poor decision-making from the outset to run that shape without posing any dilemma to the defenders.

I certainly blame Farrell and those part of it for executing badly, but I think a chunk of the blame has to be in getting these guys running these plays and thinking they are clever! That smells like Wigglesworth to me… it not a coincidence in my eyes that the Lions’ attack has been patchy whilst England’s looked so much better against Argentina this summer

[Banquo]

It's the passes out the back. They are excruciating. So poorly executed they take the team by surprise.

We're in their 22, attacking lineout. He messes up the drag-back and we get turned over. Simply shipping it down the line probably results in a try, not a word is said.



Meanwhile he converts a 2-on-1 and ROG is creaming himself.

Yus. It’s all so odd

It is although this is clearly “a move” - look at the shape the rest of the line are running… apart from the poorly executed and totally telegraphed pull back, there aren’t really a whole load of other options on.

It is poor decision-making from the outset to run that shape without posing any dilemma to the defenders.

I certainly blame Farrell and those part of it for executing badly, but I think a chunk of the blame has to be in getting these guys running these plays and thinking they are clever! That smells like Wigglesworth to me… it not a coincidence in my eyes that the Lions’ attack has been patchy whilst England’s looked so much better against Argentina this summer

all moves should have a bail out option and what ever he should execute it well.

[pjm1]

Agreed, Banquo - however I feel we have seen this stodgy, poorly executed attacking “structure” before… and I feel at least some of the blame has to lie with how they are coached to choose and run these.

I don’t know the guy, but I suspect Faz Jr is such a systems man, he will just be thinking “it’s phase 3 off the second line out after the scrum, so we have to play the clever pull back”. Regardless of what’s actually in front of him in terms of defensive alignment. Maybe that’s unfair but he has always struck me as a play-by-numbers and according to script.

[Which Tyler]

It is although this is clearly “a move” - look at the shape the rest of the line are running… apart from the poorly executed and totally telegraphed pull back, there aren’t really a whole load of other options on.

It is poor decision-making from the outset to run that shape without posing any dilemma to the defenders.

I certainly blame Farrell and those part of it for executing badly, but I think a chunk of the blame has to be in getting these guys running these plays and thinking they are clever! That smells like Wigglesworth to me… it not a coincidence in my eyes that the Lions’ attack has been patchy whilst England’s looked so much better against Argentina this summer

Which brings us back to what I've said about Farrell for so long - he makes the playbook play, whether it's on or not; whether he has the skills to execute or not.
He really needs to see that the gap is too big and either give the ball more air (which means the move goes nowhere anyway), or step off his left, and truck it into the defence closer to the protection of his forwards, and reset.

The play is fine, if you've got Tuipulotu playing IC - and presenting a greater running threat to interest defenders*, whilst also having better ball-handling skills to pull off a difficult pass out the back.
TBH, even then, I wouldn't play it off 9 personally.


* He's trying to commit 2 defenders onto him - neither of whom are remotely sold that he's taking contact with the ball

ETA: Of course, if I'd read to the end of the thread, I could have just said:

all moves should have a bail out option and what ever he should execute it well.

This

[Banquo]

It is although this is clearly “a move” - look at the shape the rest of the line are running… apart from the poorly executed and totally telegraphed pull back, there aren’t really a whole load of other options on.

It is poor decision-making from the outset to run that shape without posing any dilemma to the defenders.

I certainly blame Farrell and those part of it for executing badly, but I think a chunk of the blame has to be in getting these guys running these plays and thinking they are clever! That smells like Wigglesworth to me… it not a coincidence in my eyes that the Lions’ attack has been patchy whilst England’s looked so much better against Argentina this summer

Which brings us back to what I've said about Farrell for so long - he makes the playbook play, whether it's on or not; whether he has the skills to execute or not.
He really needs to see that the gap is too big and either give the ball more air (which means the move goes nowhere anyway), or step off his left, and truck it into the defence closer to the protection of his forwards, and reset.

The play is fine, if you've got Tuipulotu playing IC - and presenting a greater running threat, whilst also having better ball-handling skills to pull off a difficult pass out the back.
TBH, even then, I wouldn't play it off 9 personally.

yep, he's an automaton and plays like one; he has a big heart, and works as hard as possible to improve himself, but as before, that's a minimum standard for any pro tbh.