WRU Consultation on the pro game in Wales

[UKHamlet]

You can download the consultation document here:

https://ymlaencymru.com/consultation/

[Sandydragon]

There’s a key question of logic that needs to be addressed here. The cash cow in Welsh rugby is the senior men’s team. Yet the amount of money that the WRU is going to pump into the pro men’s game is about to decrease. Whilst the proposed two new sides will get more each, overall there is a reduction.

Currently it’s £4.5 m per region, so £18m. The new entities would have £7.8 m each, so £15.6 total.

If the aim is to save Welsh rugby and get the men’s game strong again, why isn’t all the money going into the pro men’s game? From a business with a turnover of £102.7 recently, where the hell is the rest of the money going?

Why is there suddenly over £2m less for the mens pro game? How much extra will the new women’s teams cost? I’m absolutely all for the women’s game, but where we are in a position that the existence of the pro game in wales is so tenuous, surely our main priority must the the senior men’s team and that pipeline?

The SRU pays only £5m directly to its two sides. But additionally the CRC funding is ringfenced for the pro game, so in reality there will be more.

It feels right now that the WRU is inefficient with its money and lacking a sense of priority. I’d suggest we look at that before cutting pro sides.

[Sandydragon]

You can download the consultation document here:

https://ymlaencymru.com/consultation/

I think the online fan survey will be interesting. Sadly I don’t sense fans coalescing around one idea but lots of noise around all four plus just returning to the old clubs and disbanding the regional game entirely.

[Numbers]

There’s a key question of logic that needs to be addressed here. The cash cow in Welsh rugby is the senior men’s team. Yet the amount of money that the WRU is going to pump into the pro men’s game is about to decrease. Whilst the proposed two new sides will get more each, overall there is a reduction.

Currently it’s £4.5 m per region, so £18m. The new entities would have £7.8 m each, so £15.6 total.

If the aim is to save Welsh rugby and get the men’s game strong again, why isn’t all the money going into the pro men’s game? From a business with a turnover of £102.7 recently, where the hell is the rest of the money going?

Why is there suddenly over £2m less for the mens pro game? How much extra will the new women’s teams cost? I’m absolutely all for the women’s game, but where we are in a position that the existence of the pro game in wales is so tenuous, surely our main priority must the the senior men’s team and that pipeline?

The SRU pays only £5m directly to its two sides. But additionally the CRC funding is ringfenced for the pro game, so in reality there will be more.

It feels right now that the WRU is inefficient with its money and lacking a sense of priority. I’d suggest we look at that before cutting pro sides.

I see your point but there are other costs other than the Women's game, the 2 acadamies for starters will be quite expensive, without a breakdown of expenditure it's hard to speculate.

[Sandydragon]

Indeed, so we have to trust the WRU and its accounting and prioritisation. I think they need to share the actual numbers. You’re quite right that the academy will have a cost, but so too will two women’s teams. Is funding being reduced elsewhere to accommodate that or are we actually funding the men’s game less?

We do t know and that’s not a great position

[Numbers]

Indeed, so we have to trust the WRU and its accounting and prioritisation. I think they need to share the actual numbers. You’re quite right that the academy will have a cost, but so too will two women’s teams. Is funding being reduced elsewhere to accommodate that or are we actually funding the men’s game less?

We do t know and that’s not a great position

There's SRC as well which is supposed to be receiving increased funding, it would be nice to see a breakdown of the numbers as you say.

[Son of Mathonwy]

You can download the consultation document here:

https://ymlaencymru.com/consultation/

I think the online fan survey will be interesting. Sadly I don’t sense fans coalescing around one idea but lots of noise around all four plus just returning to the old clubs and disbanding the regional game entirely.

Hilarious assessment in the document of fans' reactions to at 2+2 model versus the 'optimal' 2 club model:

2+2: Overall, less attractive to fans as a result of demotion of status of two clubs and likely lack change of performance success

2: Highly attractive to fans (depending on locations and brands) as a result of success, although frictional effect of loss of 2 elite clubs

It's like they have no understanding of how unwilling the fans were to shift allegiances 20 years ago. Half the fans will be lost, maybe a lot more if the new teams have no clear links with the current 4.

I will respond to this consultation (despite this reality-denial). It wouldn't be crazy to have an East and a West hub but within each there should be 1 elite and 1 dev club, sharing as much resources as possible.

The number of match day minutes available to each Welsh player* could easily be increased by reducing the number of non-Welsh qualified players. By their own figures the move from 4 down to 2 teams would reduce senior Welsh players from 164 to 90, which looks like a catastrophe to me.


* which they claim to maximize with the 2 team model, although if you sack nearly half of the senior Welsh players AND make optimistic assumptions about both teams getting to the semi-finals of the league and quarters of Europe every year (ie getting 4 extra knock-out stage matches) then that isn't hard to do.

[Sandydragon]

Indeed, so we have to trust the WRU and its accounting and prioritisation. I think they need to share the actual numbers. You’re quite right that the academy will have a cost, but so too will two women’s teams. Is funding being reduced elsewhere to accommodate that or are we actually funding the men’s game less?

We do t know and that’s not a great position

There's SRC as well which is supposed to be receiving increased funding, it would be nice to see a breakdown of the numbers as you say.

That’s something, but of course they have a glass ceiling which will continue to frustrate. What’s bugging me is the ability of other unions with similar income levels to field four teams (and yes I’m aware Ireland get tax breaks we don’t which would make a huge difference). But looking at Scotland investing additional income streams in not the pro game whilst we bought a hotel. Now we’re supposed to just buy the fact there is no money (despite posting a profit in their last accounts) and take a radical change that could decimate the pro game.

Have they genuinely tried to cut all non essential costs to boost pro rugby? Has the amateur game taken its own reduction? To fully get on board with this there needs to be transparency.

[Sandydragon]

Stef Thomas in the Fail is pushing for two of the existing regions to be retained ‘as is’ rather than create and east and west team.

Provided of course one of those is Cardiff.

[UKHamlet]

Stef Thomas in the Fail is pushing for two of the existing regions to be retained ‘as is’ rather than create and east and west team.

Provided of course one of those is Cardiff.

Despite my antipathy towards East/West as a solution, this is worse. Carving out the Dragons and either/or Ospreys/Scarlets fans will only serve to diminish a shrinking fanbase. We need to get imaginative. Maybe a Morganwg team combining everything from Cardiff to the River Loughor, and a Brechiniog team formed from an arc over the top of Morganwg, stretching from Gwent to Carmarthenshire. It has the merit of being different, anyway.

[Sandydragon]

Agreed. At least all existing regional fans will be in the same boat. If fans are spread around the region then there is the potential to attract more, especially if the rugby is attractive and successful, or at least competitive.

As experience has demonstrated, being tied to a recognisable entity just puts off a large swath of fans who will never bother.

[Tuco Ramirez]

Stef Thomas in the Fail is pushing for two of the existing regions to be retained ‘as is’ rather than create and east and west team.

Provided of course one of those is Cardiff.

Despite my antipathy towards East/West as a solution, this is worse. Carving out the Dragons and either/or Ospreys/Scarlets fans will only serve to diminish a shrinking fanbase. We need to get imaginative. Maybe a Morganwg team combining everything from Cardiff to the River Loughor, and a Brechiniog team formed from an arc over the top of Morganwg, stretching from Gwent to Carmarthenshire. It has the merit of being different, anyway.

agree 100%