Snap General Election called

[Son of Mathonwy]

A welcome approximation of sanity at Your Party, with Sultana dropping the threat of legal action. Much discussion going on, hopefully behind closed doors this time.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ified-line

[Son of Mathonwy]

Oh joy, New Labour dust down their wet dream of a compulsory ID scheme. This time digital. Bring on identity theft on steroids. You don't want to have a smartphone? Fuck you.

But they have united everyone against them, even Reform.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... l-id-cards

[Son of Mathonwy]

Oh joy, New Labour dust down their wet dream of a compulsory ID scheme. This time digital. Bring on identity theft on steroids. You don't want to have a smartphone? Fuck you.

But they have united everyone against them, even Reform.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... l-id-cards

The parliamentary petition is nearly at 2 million:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petition ... =ed_direct

A petition on 38Degrees:
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/ ... digital-id

[Son of Mathonwy]

A welcome approximation of sanity at Your Party, with Sultana dropping the threat of legal action. Much discussion going on, hopefully behind closed doors this time.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ified-line

Now that Sultana has reposted Corbyn's membership video etc I've joined Your Party:

https://bsky.app/profile/thisisyourparty.bsky.social

It may not all be sweetness and light behind the scenes but I would guess that Sultana will be hoping (quite realistically IMO) that she can get elected by the membership to a (or the) leading position.

[Son of Mathonwy]

This policy says Farage is right . . . but please vote for us instead.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... ion-rights

McSweeney and Starmer are visionless, animated purely by ambition. They are paving the way for the far right.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Support for ID cards has plummeted since Starmer introduced it, which is good in itself, but also says that Starmer has to go.

If he can destroy the popularity of a policy just by adopting it then he is poison for any party.

Hopefully it also means that digital ID cards will not happen (although I wouldn't put it past this clueless bunch to simply plough on).

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... l-id-cards

[Puja]

Support for ID cards has plummeted since Starmer introduced it, which is good in itself, but also says that Starmer has to go.

If he can destroy the popularity of a policy just by adopting it then he is poison for any party.

Hopefully it also means that digital ID cards will not happen (although I wouldn't put it past this clueless bunch to simply plough on).

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... l-id-cards

In mild fairness to Starmer, a chunk of that is going to be because some of the people who were vaguely in favour when it was theoretical and vague have changed their mind once a lot more information and commentary has come out, and a large chunk of people who like ID cards to keep forriners and imigants down have been told by Farage that they actually don't like them, and so have obediently updated their opinion. It's not all just his personal brand bringing it down.

That being said, it should be alarming to him (and everybody) at this latest demonstration of his inability to convince the British public that his ideas are good. For a career politician who has no principles but electability, he's astoundingly lacking in charisma.

Mind, if we get rid of him, who the hells else is there? Andy Burnham, in the greatest display of "I'm not saying that I should be in charge, I'm just saying that a lot of other people are saying that I should be in charge, and I think that's interesting," since Tom Wood volunteered himself for the England captaincy? Wes Streeting, the man who would make us wish for the socialist stylings of Starmer? I would've been in favour of Rayner, as someone who's actually lived a bit of real life and experienced poverty before becoming a politician, but she's politically toxic right now and has blotted her copybook by nodding along with Starmer's leadership. The only vaguely left-wing option is Miliband and it'd be a hell of a risky move to go back to someone who has failed once already.

Puja

[paddy no 11]

Support for ID cards has plummeted since Starmer introduced it, which is good in itself, but also says that Starmer has to go.

If he can destroy the popularity of a policy just by adopting it then he is poison for any party.

Hopefully it also means that digital ID cards will not happen (although I wouldn't put it past this clueless bunch to simply plough on).

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... l-id-cards

In mild fairness to Starmer, a chunk of that is going to be because some of the people who were vaguely in favour when it was theoretical and vague have changed their mind once a lot more information and commentary has come out, and a large chunk of people who like ID cards to keep forriners and imigants down have been told by Farage that they actually don't like them, and so have obediently updated their opinion. It's not all just his personal brand bringing it down.

That being said, it should be alarming to him (and everybody) at this latest demonstration of his inability to convince the British public that his ideas are good. For a career politician who has no principles but electability, he's astoundingly lacking in charisma.

Mind, if we get rid of him, who the hells else is there? Andy Burnham, in the greatest display of "I'm not saying that I should be in charge, I'm just saying that a lot of other people are saying that I should be in charge, and I think that's interesting," since Tom Wood volunteered himself for the England captaincy? Wes Streeting, the man who would make us wish for the socialist stylings of Starmer? I would've been in favour of Rayner, as someone who's actually lived a bit of real life and experienced poverty before becoming a politician, but she's politically toxic right now and has blotted her copybook by nodding along with Starmer's leadership. The only vaguely left-wing option is Miliband and it'd be a hell of a risky move to go back to someone who has failed once already.

Puja

Should always have been the other miliband............far more talented, articulate, just everything

[Stom]

I actually feel like Sit Keir has been so focused on killing the conservatives that now they’ve killed themselves, he’s lost.

[Puja]

I actually feel like Sit Keir has been so focused on killing the conservatives that now they’ve killed themselves, he’s lost.

Read an article the other day saying that he probably wants to start treating Kemi Badenoch and the Tories as HM Opposition a bit more and act like they deserve his respect and caution, rather than treating them as irrelevant. I mean, they absolutely don't, but if he continues playing through and just talking to Reform, then it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy and they'll vanish. He desperately needs a viable Tory party to siphon off votes from right-wingers who want to cast a vaguely "sensible" right wing vote, especially if he's not planning on doing anything about the haemorrhaging of votes that he's losing from the left of his electoral bloc (aside from, of course, whining that voting Green/Lib Dem is a vote for Farage). If he leaves the fascists as the only credible right wing party and continues shitting the bed as he is currently doing, then the fascists will win.

Puja

[Stom]

I listened to an interesting retelling of the fabricated class war that’s going on and it made me think of Hungarian politics.

Basically that the “working working class” and the educated middle class actually want and need the exact same thing, but they’ve been fed migrants, trans, etc., to split these groups and ensure they don’t realize that they both want the same things.

It got me thinking about Hungary. The new opposition, Peter Magyar, has been incredibly consistent. He’s talked at length about government corruption, about falling living standards, about rising prices, failing schools and hospitals… and he’s avoided every single talk of trans, of pride, of the war in Ukraine, of the Palestinian genocide, of immigration.

And it’s looking increasingly likely he may even return a sizable majority.

Compare that to Sir Keir, who just talks these divisive issues and nothing else. And I thought… he’s nothing if he’s not a believer in the “rules”. And he’s been advised by the same advisers who got people like Blair, Cameron, et al. elected. Their play book is to instill this division, not to remove it. Starmer doesn’t know how to change tack.

But he needs to.

Or…and this is something else.

Magyar didn’t run for an existing party. He didn’t take over the equivalent of Labour, the greens or the lib dems. He took a tiny party hardly anyone had heard of.

Because all the others came with baggage.

We’re not going to get a green pm. Bit if someone with a bit of charisma set up a new party and positioned themselves correctly, and gained just £1m in funding… they could do something.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Tragic stuff - for once politicians use the work antisemitic correctly over this vicious attack:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... now-so-far

Turns out that one of the two killed was shot by the police. Not sure if that makes it any more tragic.

This is not going to help anyone except Farage and the far right.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Support for ID cards has plummeted since Starmer introduced it, which is good in itself, but also says that Starmer has to go.

If he can destroy the popularity of a policy just by adopting it then he is poison for any party.

Hopefully it also means that digital ID cards will not happen (although I wouldn't put it past this clueless bunch to simply plough on).

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... l-id-cards

In mild fairness to Starmer, a chunk of that is going to be because some of the people who were vaguely in favour when it was theoretical and vague have changed their mind once a lot more information and commentary has come out, and a large chunk of people who like ID cards to keep forriners and imigants down have been told by Farage that they actually don't like them, and so have obediently updated their opinion. It's not all just his personal brand bringing it down.

That being said, it should be alarming to him (and everybody) at this latest demonstration of his inability to convince the British public that his ideas are good. For a career politician who has no principles but electability, he's astoundingly lacking in charisma.

Mind, if we get rid of him, who the hells else is there? Andy Burnham, in the greatest display of "I'm not saying that I should be in charge, I'm just saying that a lot of other people are saying that I should be in charge, and I think that's interesting," since Tom Wood volunteered himself for the England captaincy? Wes Streeting, the man who would make us wish for the socialist stylings of Starmer? I would've been in favour of Rayner, as someone who's actually lived a bit of real life and experienced poverty before becoming a politician, but she's politically toxic right now and has blotted her copybook by nodding along with Starmer's leadership. The only vaguely left-wing option is Miliband and it'd be a hell of a risky move to go back to someone who has failed once already.

Puja

No policy is launched into a vacuum. You can expect objections from the opposition. It's the job of a competent politician to justify their policy and knock down the arguments against (preferably in advance). In this Starmer has failed yet again. A party can't have a leader like that (as the Tory's will decide again, once Kemi's 12 months are up).

If we get rid of him we at least have a chance of something better. And we can at least expect to see he real PM, McSweeney to down with Starmer. Considering that he's been the main architect of everything Labour has become in the last 6 years, that would be a real positive.

Losing Rayner was tragic (which is why the right have been trying to get rid of her since she became deputy leader). There's no one else with the same profile who's vaguely on the left. Burnham is not on the left, no matter what he might say - he's New Labour through and through (and he will find it difficult to run at all). I accept that Streeting might be worse than Starmer but he's very unpopular - without a coronation I'm not sure he can win the leadership. The McSweeney/Starmer stitch-up with the leadership nominations has probably locked out anyone good from standing (but I'm staying in the party just in case). My vote would go to Clive Lewis but I doubt he'd get the 80 MP backing.

[Puja]

We’re not going to get a green pm. Bit if someone with a bit of charisma set up a new party and positioned themselves correctly, and gained just £1m in funding… they could do something.

I don't know we'll get a Green PM next election, but I think Polanski's really got something about him and, if Labour continue to shit out their traditional base, he could very quickly become a very viable political figure. He appears very skillful at dealing with a hostile press so far and presents himself very well. With the current political atmosphere (and Starmer doing his best to extinguish any kind of brand loyalty to Labour among voters), things are very elastic at present - just like Farage, if the momentum shifts, it could suddenly transition from "A vote for the Greens is a vote for Reform in FPtP" to "A vote for Labour is a wasted vote - only Polanski can save us from Reform".

Puja

[Stom]

We’re not going to get a green pm. Bit if someone with a bit of charisma set up a new party and positioned themselves correctly, and gained just £1m in funding… they could do something.

I don't know we'll get a Green PM next election, but I think Polanski's really got something about him and, if Labour continue to shit out their traditional base, he could very quickly become a very viable political figure. He appears very skillful at dealing with a hostile press so far and presents himself very well. With the current political atmosphere (and Starmer doing his best to extinguish any kind of brand loyalty to Labour among voters), things are very elastic at present - just like Farage, if the momentum shifts, it could suddenly transition from "A vote for the Greens is a vote for Reform in FPtP" to "A vote for Labour is a wasted vote - only Polanski can save us from Reform".

Puja

If the Greens do not run in every constituency, they're not going to win...so a vote for the Greens pretty much IS giving Reform the win.

We do not have PR.

It's no good Labour being wiped out if it just leads to Farage.

And that's why British politics is so frustrating. It's like Hungarian politics was 10 years ago, but without an actual fascist in charge.

The only hope if that the Tories actually ditch Badenoch and bring in an old school conservative to win. And they could. I could absolutely see the Tories winning my parent's constituency if their policies were old school Tory. The Lib Dems only win because the Tories are unpalatable.

And I would not be averse to a Tory party that has gone back to its pre-Thatcher roots. I would actually agree with that kind of party on a lot of things. But as things stand, who would replace her? Cleverly, Jenrick, or Boris...yeah, that's not going to fly.

It's a mess. And unless the election in Hungary isn't free next year, it'll mark the first time where I'll be glad, politically, to be here rather than there.

[Puja]

We’re not going to get a green pm. Bit if someone with a bit of charisma set up a new party and positioned themselves correctly, and gained just £1m in funding… they could do something.

I don't know we'll get a Green PM next election, but I think Polanski's really got something about him and, if Labour continue to shit out their traditional base, he could very quickly become a very viable political figure. He appears very skillful at dealing with a hostile press so far and presents himself very well. With the current political atmosphere (and Starmer doing his best to extinguish any kind of brand loyalty to Labour among voters), things are very elastic at present - just like Farage, if the momentum shifts, it could suddenly transition from "A vote for the Greens is a vote for Reform in FPtP" to "A vote for Labour is a wasted vote - only Polanski can save us from Reform".

Puja

If the Greens do not run in every constituency, they're not going to win...so a vote for the Greens pretty much IS giving Reform the win.

The Greens do stand in every constituency (well, almost every - they've stood aside for other genuine left options before)? I don't know what you mean by that.

Puja

[Stom]

I don't know we'll get a Green PM next election, but I think Polanski's really got something about him and, if Labour continue to shit out their traditional base, he could very quickly become a very viable political figure. He appears very skillful at dealing with a hostile press so far and presents himself very well. With the current political atmosphere (and Starmer doing his best to extinguish any kind of brand loyalty to Labour among voters), things are very elastic at present - just like Farage, if the momentum shifts, it could suddenly transition from "A vote for the Greens is a vote for Reform in FPtP" to "A vote for Labour is a wasted vote - only Polanski can save us from Reform".

Puja

If the Greens do not run in every constituency, they're not going to win...so a vote for the Greens pretty much IS giving Reform the win.

The Greens do stand in every constituency (well, almost every - they've stood aside for other genuine left options before)? I don't know what you mean by that.

Puja

OK, sorry. I seem to remember them not standing everywhere in order to make their budget stretch further.

Plus, Polanski saying he's targeting a handful of seats...that's not good enough rhetoric, imo. He says a lot of good things, but I'm not convinced he's the man to break the corruption cycle that grips British politics.

[Puja]

If the Greens do not run in every constituency, they're not going to win...so a vote for the Greens pretty much IS giving Reform the win.

The Greens do stand in every constituency (well, almost every - they've stood aside for other genuine left options before)? I don't know what you mean by that.

Puja

OK, sorry. I seem to remember them not standing everywhere in order to make their budget stretch further.

Plus, Polanski saying he's targeting a handful of seats...that's not good enough rhetoric, imo. He says a lot of good things, but I'm not convinced he's the man to break the corruption cycle that grips British politics.

I think you're thinking of the wrong Green there. It was the old leadership team that was after a handful of seats and slow, cautious growth. He's the one that campaigned on learning from Reform's ambition and looking to attract national attention as a disruptive force offering an alternative to the people who want things to be different without going fascist.

Not saying he's necessarily going to succeed, but if there's one thing you can't accuse him of, it's being too conservative (double-meaning intended).

Puja

[Sandydragon]

The Greens don’t have a prayer of succeeding on their own. Better to have a few target seats and look at tactical voting options which might get them enough to be a coalition junior partner.

Based on current voting intentions (and yes there’s a long long way to go) it’s all about keeping Reform out. Tactical voting again will be key and better a Conservative MP is returned than a Reform one.

[Puja]

The Greens don’t have a prayer of succeeding on their own. Better to have a few target seats and look at tactical voting options which might get them enough to be a coalition junior partner.

Mind, we would've said that about Reform not too long ago.

Puja

[Sandydragon]

The Greens don’t have a prayer of succeeding on their own. Better to have a few target seats and look at tactical voting options which might get them enough to be a coalition junior partner.

Mind, we would've said that about Reform not too long ago.

Puja

They have 5 MPs despite significant public support over the past decade. The implosion of the Tories drove many to reform, Labour is nowhere near that bad, despite the best efforts of the media to portray them that way and fickle supporters.

The reality check is that the uk won’t vote in enough numbers for the Greens, particularly with their new direction. If anything, it will motivate voters to support the party most likely to stop them.

Corbyn came closest. Yet despite the Labour Party machinery, Momentum and a Tory PM who was both hated and a very poor campaigner, and who pissed off her core support just before the election, he failed.

As things stand the next PM will be Starmer or Farage. Time for some grown up politics to keep Reform out of power.

[Stom]

The Greens don’t have a prayer of succeeding on their own. Better to have a few target seats and look at tactical voting options which might get them enough to be a coalition junior partner.

Mind, we would've said that about Reform not too long ago.

Puja

They have 5 MPs despite significant public support over the past decade. The implosion of the Tories drove many to reform, Labour is nowhere near that bad, despite the best efforts of the media to portray them that way and fickle supporters.

The reality check is that the uk won’t vote in enough numbers for the Greens, particularly with their new direction. If anything, it will motivate voters to support the party most likely to stop them.

Corbyn came closest. Yet despite the Labour Party machinery, Momentum and a Tory PM who was both hated and a very poor campaigner, and who pissed off her core support just before the election, he failed.

As things stand the next PM will be Starmer or Farage. Time for some grown up politics to keep Reform out of power.

As usual, I think you’re completely wrong there.

“Grown up politics” is what got us in this mess in the first place.

Someone needs to be a populist, and loudly talk about the actual issues, and ignore or sidestep every single question about migrants, trans rights, wars, etc. They need to be vocal, loud, and heavily criticize the political class who have allowed this situation to happen.

Because that’s what reform do and other alt right agitators, and they’re correct. Just they also promote racist, fascist rhetoric. So don’t. Just talk policy, talk situations, talk solutions. And ensure the message is clear and easy to understand:

Doctor waiting times are insane. We need to be able to attract more doctors and cut down paperwork, here is an idea.

The tax system is working against you. We want working people to have more money in their pockets. We want families who have built themselves up to not need to face crippling tax bills, but we also need to spend. So we cut corruption by slashing Whitehall budgets for assistants, stopping the corruption by local government: just look at how much of your money reform have spent on employing family members. In this one council alone, they stole £250.000 of your money, money that could have been spent on fixing potholes, fixing the school roof, hiring an extra few staff at the clinic so you get seen quicker.

That’s what’s needed.

Call out the corruption directly. Don’t worry about stepping on feet. Burn all political bridges. The game is rigged. It doesn’t work by being a “grown up” it works by playing dirty. Without the bigoted rhetoric.

[Puja]

Corbyn came closest. Yet despite the Parliamentary Labour Party actively briefing against him throughout the election, a concerted media campaign to smear and denigrate him, his problematic past positions, a massively reported-on anti-Semitism scandal, and his own ineptness at leadership and public communicatons, he took over 40% of the vote, a full 7% more than Starmer achieved during a complete Tory implosion.

FTFY.

It seems weird to say adamently, "The British electorate won't vote for socialism" using Corbyn as the example - for one thing, 'socialism' nowadays is 'completely centrist politics' from 15-20 years ago and the policies themselves poll incredibly well, much better than the current centrist "more austerity, but better this time."

Puja

[Puja]

Someone needs to be a populist, and loudly talk about the actual issues, and ignore or sidestep every single question about migrants, trans rights, wars, etc. They need to be vocal, loud, and heavily criticize the political class who have allowed this situation to happen.

Puja

[Son of Mathonwy]

Corbyn came closest. Yet despite the Parliamentary Labour Party actively briefing against him throughout the election, a concerted media campaign to smear and denigrate him, his problematic past positions, a massively reported-on anti-Semitism scandal, and his own ineptness at leadership and public communicatons, he took over 40% of the vote, a full 7% more than Starmer achieved during a complete Tory implosion.

FTFY.

It seems weird to say adamently, "The British electorate won't vote for socialism" using Corbyn as the example - for one thing, 'socialism' nowadays is 'completely centrist politics' from 15-20 years ago and the policies themselves poll incredibly well, much better than the current centrist "more austerity, but better this time."

Puja

Yes, I was going to say something along those lines - the Labour party machinery working for Corbyn?? The Blairites preferred to sabotage him from within - better for them to lose the election than to have a left wing PM.

Corbyn was the only major party leader in more than 30 years to offer socialism - his falling short of victory hardly proves the country wouldn't vote for it.