WRU intends to cut a region by 2028

[pompey-zebra]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cyv8ql9p108t

[Son of Mathonwy]

WRU decide to lop off one limb. Further decline for Welsh rugby is now locked in as fans and player development opportunities are reduced. And setting the Ospreys against the Scarlets is mental.

Dave Reddin will fuck off after a few years and we're left with a permanently diminished set-up. Brilliant. Hope they pay themselves some nice bonuses for this Brexit-level catastrophe.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Who the hell will sign a new contract with the Ospreys or Scarlets now?

The Welsh team should go on strike. It's the only thing that they'd pay attention to.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Have to say, a player strike is the only hope now.

What the WRU are planning is far more serious than what was going on before the last threatened strike. And both Morgan and Lake are in the Ospreys, one of the two teams on the chopping block, so the main leadership in the squad are well motivated to do something.

Being just before the AIs gives the players a lot of power, especially with the world cup pools being decided straight after that. They should use it. See what the WRU think of having to refund tickets for the next four matches.

[UKHamlet]

The question is, how do you square the financial circle? The WRU has a bank debt (2022-23) of about £20-25 million, which is increasing by £3-5 million annually, despite revenues of £101.3 million. The 2024 year-end accounts showed increased losses and debt. 2025 *may* show a turnaround.

We have debenture repayment liabilities of £50.9 million, with £8.9 million of that repayable in 2026, but a fuck-off bomb repayment waiting in 2050 of nearly £30 million.

This is quite apart from the £40 odd million mortgage for the hotel, and the debt to the Welsh Government.

The finances are in a fucking state. Adding to problems by going on strike will not help the situation one jot.

[UKHamlet]

East and West regions was always a stupid idea. Cardiff Central, Cardiff East, and Cardiff West is much better, although not ideal. We need to start planning a Cardiff North region ASAP.

[Son of Mathonwy]

The question is, how do you square the financial circle? The WRU has a bank debt (2022-23) of about £20-25 million, which is increasing by £3-5 million annually, despite revenues of £101.3 million. The 2024 year-end accounts showed increased losses and debt. 2025 *may* show a turnaround.

We have debenture repayment liabilities of £50.9 million, with £8.9 million of that repayable in 2026, but a fuck-off bomb repayment waiting in 2050 of nearly £30 million.

This is quite apart from the £40 odd million mortgage for the hotel, and the debt to the Welsh Government.

The finances are in a fucking state. Adding to problems by going on strike will not help the situation one jot.

Exactly, and that's why they should go on strike. Do the WRU want financial ruin or not? They backed down before.

You square the financial circle by funding 2 of the teams much lower than the others. The WRU's plan will destroy 25% of the player development and between 25 and 50% of the fanbase (depending on how bloodily the Ospreys/Scarlets rats-in-a-sack situation resolves itself). We will be left with the survivor of the two or a Frankenstein's monster in the West, an East Wales team that has forgotten how to win, and the recently bankrupt but never allowed to die Cardiff. We will be permanently diminished.

[UKHamlet]

The question is, how do you square the financial circle? The WRU has a bank debt (2022-23) of about £20-25 million, which is increasing by £3-5 million annually, despite revenues of £101.3 million. The 2024 year-end accounts showed increased losses and debt. 2025 *may* show a turnaround.

We have debenture repayment liabilities of £50.9 million, with £8.9 million of that repayable in 2026, but a fuck-off bomb repayment waiting in 2050 of nearly £30 million.

This is quite apart from the £40 odd million mortgage for the hotel, and the debt to the Welsh Government.

The finances are in a fucking state. Adding to problems by going on strike will not help the situation one jot.

Exactly, and that's why they should go on strike. Do the WRU want financial ruin or not? They backed down before.

You square the financial circle by funding 2 of the teams much lower than the others. The WRU's plan will destroy 25% of the player development and between 25 and 50% of the fanbase (depending on how bloodily the Ospreys/Scarlets rats-in-a-sack situation resolves itself). We will be left with the survivor of the two or a Frankenstein's monster in the West, an East Wales team that has forgotten how to win, and the recently bankrupt but never allowed to die Cardiff. We will be permanently diminished.

On your last point, it's worth noting that Cardiff only went into admin because they were conned. Trying to portray it as some inherent failure that's specific to the Cardiff condition is as childish as it's inaccurate. Put any other region in a similar situation and they'd be worse off, because Cardiff has more revenue from ticket sales than any other region.

I'd prefer seeing two teams on lower funding and two elite teams. Simple turnstile arithmetic says the elite teams should be Cardiff and Swansea. For whatever reason, the WRU thinks dropping the Scarlets (and it will be the Scarlets who get shafted) is a good idea. I don't think they could be more wrong.

Strike action will make the situation worse and could result in both West Wales teams being culled and a new franchise being set up. Dire warnings about the fans not turning up are probably wide of thr mark. Especially if that franchise played in white and called themselves Swansea. Anyway, it wouldn't matter because the important revenue comes from TV and the Union.

[UKHamlet]

The question is, how do you square the financial circle? The WRU has a bank debt (2022-23) of about £20-25 million, which is increasing by £3-5 million annually, despite revenues of £101.3 million. The 2024 year-end accounts showed increased losses and debt. 2025 *may* show a turnaround.

We have debenture repayment liabilities of £50.9 million, with £8.9 million of that repayable in 2026, but a fuck-off bomb repayment waiting in 2050 of nearly £30 million.

This is quite apart from the £40 odd million mortgage for the hotel, and the debt to the Welsh Government.

The finances are in a fucking state. Adding to problems by going on strike will not help the situation one jot.

Exactly, and that's why they should go on strike. Do the WRU want financial ruin or not? They backed down before.

You square the financial circle by funding 2 of the teams much lower than the others. The WRU's plan will destroy 25% of the player development and between 25 and 50% of the fanbase (depending on how bloodily the Ospreys/Scarlets rats-in-a-sack situation resolves itself). We will be left with the survivor of the two or a Frankenstein's monster in the West, an East Wales team that has forgotten how to win, and the recently bankrupt but never allowed to die Cardiff. We will be permanently diminished.

On your last point, it's worth noting that Cardiff only went into admin because they were conned. Trying to portray it as some inherent failure that's specific to the Cardiff condition is as childish as it's inaccurate. Put any other region in a similar situation and they'd be worse off, because Cardiff has more revenue from ticket sales than any other region.

I'd prefer seeing two teams on lower funding and two elite teams. Simple turnstile arithmetic says the elite teams should be Cardiff and Swansea. For whatever reason, the WRU thinks dropping the Scarlets (and it will be the Scarlets who get shafted) is a good idea. I don't think they could be more wrong.

Strike action will make the situation worse and could result in both West Wales teams being culled and a new franchise being set up. Dire warnings about the fans not turning up are probably wide of thr mark. Especially if that franchise played in white and called themselves Swansea. Anyway, it wouldn't matter because the important revenue comes from TV and the Union.

[Son of Mathonwy]

The question is, how do you square the financial circle? The WRU has a bank debt (2022-23) of about £20-25 million, which is increasing by £3-5 million annually, despite revenues of £101.3 million. The 2024 year-end accounts showed increased losses and debt. 2025 *may* show a turnaround.

We have debenture repayment liabilities of £50.9 million, with £8.9 million of that repayable in 2026, but a fuck-off bomb repayment waiting in 2050 of nearly £30 million.

This is quite apart from the £40 odd million mortgage for the hotel, and the debt to the Welsh Government.

The finances are in a fucking state. Adding to problems by going on strike will not help the situation one jot.

Exactly, and that's why they should go on strike. Do the WRU want financial ruin or not? They backed down before.

You square the financial circle by funding 2 of the teams much lower than the others. The WRU's plan will destroy 25% of the player development and between 25 and 50% of the fanbase (depending on how bloodily the Ospreys/Scarlets rats-in-a-sack situation resolves itself). We will be left with the survivor of the two or a Frankenstein's monster in the West, an East Wales team that has forgotten how to win, and the recently bankrupt but never allowed to die Cardiff. We will be permanently diminished.

On your last point, it's worth noting that Cardiff only went into admin because they were conned. Trying to portray it as some inherent failure that's specific to the Cardiff condition is as childish as it's inaccurate. Put any other region in a similar situation and they'd be worse off, because Cardiff has more revenue from ticket sales than any other region.

I'd prefer seeing two teams on lower funding and two elite teams. Simple turnstile arithmetic says the elite teams should be Cardiff and Swansea. For whatever reason, the WRU thinks dropping the Scarlets (and it will be the Scarlets who get shafted) is a good idea. I don't think they could be more wrong.

Strike action will make the situation worse and could result in both West Wales teams being culled and a new franchise being set up. Dire warnings about the fans not turning up are probably wide of thr mark. Especially if that franchise played in white and called themselves Swansea. Anyway, it wouldn't matter because the important revenue comes from TV and the Union.

We agree on the 2+2 solution (funny that the consultation didn't even ask about that). Maybe the Scarlets are being lined up for the chop but as things stand the WRU are just dropping both West teams into a sack and saying it's nothing to do with us who comes out alive. The uncertainty will seriously hit the ability of both teams to hire gong forward and to just let that happen is destructive and cowardly.

Strike action would be extremely harmful if the WRU fought it, which they didn't do last time. It's the only lever the players have to save their base being reduced by 25%. They probably won't do it but I think it would be a reasonable thing to do in these desperate times.

It depends what you mean by 'dire' re fans not showing up. Agreed, if the Scarlets and Ospreys disappear and Swansea shows up there will be fans. But all Scarlets fans will be gone and as will Neath, Port Talbot, Bridgend. At least 25% of all Welsh fans will be gone, and probably a few more. I am thinking worst case would be if they try to make a new super-region identity to encompass the whole area and botch it, they could lose most of the current fans for the 2 regions.

[Puja]

We agree on the 2+2 solution (funny that the consultation didn't even ask about that). Maybe the Scarlets are being lined up for the chop but as things stand the WRU are just dropping both West teams into a sack and saying it's nothing to do with us who comes out alive. The uncertainty will seriously hit the ability of both teams to hire gong forward and to just let that happen is destructive and cowardly.

It is the worst possible approach, isn't it? If they just came out and said, 'Right, we're killing Ospreys, job done," then it'd still be an incredible and stupid act of self-harm, but at least it would be done. The wound could be cauterised, fans and players would find other teams if they cared to, and people could plan for the future and start trying to build the glorious three-team new beginning that will apparently fix everything this time. What they've done is leave both teams in limbo and, if we learned anything from Teresa May's Brexit flailings, it's that the prolonged uncertainty kills more investment than the actual act will.

It's so incompetently destructive that it almost feels deliberate. Wanking about for 2 years might unsettle both sides enough that they both fall apart, thus giving the WRU their two team solution that they always wanted. I don't **think** it is deliberate (mostly because I don't credit the WRU with enough competence to have an evil master-plan), but if they were trying to break both teams, they couldn't do much worse.

I am deeply sorry for what you're all going through, by the way.

Puja

[Sandydragon]

We agree on the 2+2 solution (funny that the consultation didn't even ask about that). Maybe the Scarlets are being lined up for the chop but as things stand the WRU are just dropping both West teams into a sack and saying it's nothing to do with us who comes out alive. The uncertainty will seriously hit the ability of both teams to hire gong forward and to just let that happen is destructive and cowardly.

It is the worst possible approach, isn't it? If they just came out and said, 'Right, we're killing Ospreys, job done," then it'd still be an incredible and stupid act of self-harm, but at least it would be done. The wound could be cauterised, fans and players would find other teams if they cared to, and people could plan for the future and start trying to build the glorious three-team new beginning that will apparently fix everything this time. What they've done is leave both teams in limbo and, if we learned anything from Teresa May's Brexit flailings, it's that the prolonged uncertainty kills more investment than the actual act will.

It's so incompetently destructive that it almost feels deliberate. Wanking about for 2 years might unsettle both sides enough that they both fall apart, thus giving the WRU their two team solution that they always wanted. I don't **think** it is deliberate (mostly because I don't credit the WRU with enough competence to have an evil master-plan), but if they were trying to break both teams, they couldn't do much worse.

I am deeply sorry for what you're all going through, by the way.

Puja

I agree it’s a rubbish situation and it’s not going to get any easier. You just know the WRU are taking this approach to limit the risk of legal action. There’s an existing agreement with all four regions that has at least two seasons to run. The WRau would love it if the Ospreys owners bought Cardiff and wound down the Ospreys )or scarlets owners for that matter), but the end date is like a back stop where the contracts run out and the WRU can be more directive.

So the WRU has undertaken the consultation in full knowledge that to make any change it needs everyone to agree. Which won’t happen so we will end up with a period of discontent until contracts expire.

Utterly pathetic.

[Son of Mathonwy]

We agree on the 2+2 solution (funny that the consultation didn't even ask about that). Maybe the Scarlets are being lined up for the chop but as things stand the WRU are just dropping both West teams into a sack and saying it's nothing to do with us who comes out alive. The uncertainty will seriously hit the ability of both teams to hire gong forward and to just let that happen is destructive and cowardly.

It is the worst possible approach, isn't it? If they just came out and said, 'Right, we're killing Ospreys, job done," then it'd still be an incredible and stupid act of self-harm, but at least it would be done. The wound could be cauterised, fans and players would find other teams if they cared to, and people could plan for the future and start trying to build the glorious three-team new beginning that will apparently fix everything this time. What they've done is leave both teams in limbo and, if we learned anything from Teresa May's Brexit flailings, it's that the prolonged uncertainty kills more investment than the actual act will.

It's so incompetently destructive that it almost feels deliberate. Wanking about for 2 years might unsettle both sides enough that they both fall apart, thus giving the WRU their two team solution that they always wanted. I don't **think** it is deliberate (mostly because I don't credit the WRU with enough competence to have an evil master-plan), but if they were trying to break both teams, they couldn't do much worse.

I am deeply sorry for what you're all going through, by the way.

Puja

I agree it’s a rubbish situation and it’s not going to get any easier. You just know the WRU are taking this approach to limit the risk of legal action. There’s an existing agreement with all four regions that has at least two seasons to run. The WRau would love it if the Ospreys owners bought Cardiff and wound down the Ospreys )or scarlets owners for that matter), but the end date is like a back stop where the contracts run out and the WRU can be more directive.

So the WRU has undertaken the consultation in full knowledge that to make any change it needs everyone to agree. Which won’t happen so we will end up with a period of discontent until contracts expire.

Utterly pathetic.

You'd think the WRU would have some interest in limiting the damage from these changes. They could say, 'when the contracts expire we intend to have a single West Wales region centred in <WRU's favourite location>, unless another solution can be negotiated' which would cause chaos in the other location but at least the damage would be in 25% rather than 50% of the regions.

Again, I suppose it's possible this is just another tough negotiating tactic but as a plan its like beginning a leg amputation by breaking both legs.

Seriously, I do hope the players strike over this.

[Sandydragon]

That would be a better approach. On paper, the dragons aren’t safe as it’s a Gwent region, although not many other clubs in the region have the right backing and the idea of another club overtaking Cardiff blues is a joke.

It would be better to just say the new entities will be based on the three largest cities and give Llanelli entry to SRC alongside the other traditional clubs. This apparent chaos period will do nothing but cause more bad blood.

[newgalesurf]

East and West regions was always a stupid idea. Cardiff Central, Cardiff East, and Cardiff West is much better, although not ideal. We need to start planning a Cardiff North region ASAP.

Not too far from the truth. Just listened to Richard's presser. 3 licenses available and not necessarily Ospreys v Lalanelli for the one spot.

One club will geographically be situated in West Wales

He said one of Llanelli or Ospreys could apply for the Cardiff license (we can all imagine how that would work)

[Sandydragon]

East and West regions was always a stupid idea. Cardiff Central, Cardiff East, and Cardiff West is much better, although not ideal. We need to start planning a Cardiff North region ASAP.

Not too far from the truth. Just listened to Richard's presser. 3 licenses available and not necessarily Ospreys v Lalanelli for the one spot.

One club will geographically be situated in West Wales

He said one of Llanelli or Ospreys could apply for the Cardiff license (we can all imagine how that would work)

It can’t be any more than a sop to the owners. Cardiff supporters won’t suddenly support the ospreys and ospreys supports won’t support their team if they are suddenly based in Cardiff. It’s a bit clueless and I can only see this as being a way to stop the money from suing the WRau by giving them an opportunity to shift their ownership.