England A vs All Blacks XV, 8 November at the Rec

[FKAS]

I suspect Murley might be the fourth winger in the senior squad as opposed to be playing for the A side. One of the young flyers from Sarries might get that spot instead. Joe Woodward likely to come in as the other 12.

Quite like Obano and Batley in there, gives some experience to the tight five.

Unsure about 15 with Carpenter and Hendy both out injured this weekend.

[Scrumhead]

I think it’s Murley vs. Arundell and ATM, the latter is winning that battle …

Based upon Dowson’s comments this week, sounded like Hendy was touch and go this weekend so should be fit. Not sure on Carpenter? If neither are fit, de Glanville is consistently unlucky to miss out so would be the obvious choice for me.

Good shout on Woodward - I knew someone would slip my mind somewhere.

[Captainhaircut]

I thought Charlie Atkinson looked good for Gloucs at full back last night and was good in the A games last year. I think he’ll be one of the 10s- probably with Bailey if he’s fit.

I think Cam Jordan has started the season well and could be a tight lock option.

Do we think Blamire will be 3rd hooker in the main squad? He was in the training squad but was behind Dan and Oghre in the summer. Feels like at least one of that 3 will be in the A squad although definitely agree we need to see Jibulu and Kepu play at some point.

[Scrumhead]

Temporarily forgot about Bailey. Losing the battle for the 10 shirt with Searle won’t be doing him any favours though.

Of the 10 options we have Worsley and Searle are the only one actually playing at fly half. Bailey’s not playing, Benson’s playing 12 and Charlie Atkinson’s playing 15.

TBF, Searle’s never going to trouble senior selection but wouldn’t be an awful stop gap selection.

Blamire is an odd one. I thought he’d take to life at Tigers like a duck to water but it hasn’t worked out like that. Oghre outshone him in the USA and is in better form so should make the senior squad while Jibulu is surely the obvious choice to start for the A side. I went for Blake and Tuipolotu ahead of Blamire due to the capture situation.

[FKAS]

Temporarily forgot about Bailey. Losing the battle for the 10 shirt with Searle won’t be doing him any favours though.

Of the 10 options we have Worsley and Searle are the only one actually playing at fly half. Bailey’s not playing, Benson’s playing 12 and Charlie Atkinson’s playing 15.

TBF, Searle’s never going to trouble senior selection but wouldn’t be an awful stop gap selection.

Blamire is an odd one. I thought he’d take to life at Tigers like a duck to water but it hasn’t worked out like that. Oghre outshone him in the USA and is in better form so should make the senior squad while Jibulu is surely the obvious choice to start for the A side. I went for Blake and Tuipolotu ahead of Blamire due to the capture situation.

Blamire has the one massive draw back to his game. His darts are shit. In every other area he's a test level hooker but you can't be as bad as the lineout as he is and be trusted at the top level. It's why he was behind Oghre in the summer and why he might miss out this time. Blake had very good numbers for lineout accuracy this year and is a big lump round the park, hasn't been as impressive early doors this season though. Tuipolotu is a star in the making.

Bailey has issues with a tight hamstring so is a bit unlucky. He played well Vs Bristol in his only start. Searle has been very good as well, his passing range is not very good but his kicking and short passing game are solid. Lacks the xfactor for international rugby but if paired with a playmaker at centre like Woodward (who played out the back and Searle in the line in a reversal to the normal 12/10 set up for Tigers the other week) or Benson he could do a solid job steering a side that's not really played together into the right areas.

Charlie Atkinson's kicking game is still awful. Great vision and running ability. He'd be a good job at 15 or maybe at 12.

[Scrumhead]

Yep. Agreed on all of that.

My side for NZ A would be:

1. Iyogun
2. Jibulu
3. Fasogbon
4. Batley
5. Bamber
6. Kenningham
7. Ilione
8. Chick (c)
9. Porter
10. Benson
11. Murley
12. Woodward
13. Joseph
14. Brown-Bampoe
15. Carpenter

16. Blake 17. Obano 18. Sela 19. Sodeke 20. Fisilau 21. C. Bracken 22. Beard 23. Hendy

[Which Tyler]

Temporarily forgot about Bailey. Losing the battle for the 10 shirt with Searle won’t be doing him any favours though.

Is he losing the battle? I thought he was injured? (which also isn't going to help his chances)

[FKAS]

Yep. Agreed on all of that.

My side for NZ A would be:

1. Iyogun
2. Jibulu
3. Fasogbon
4. Batley
5. Bamber
6. Kenningham
7. Ilione
8. Chick (c)
9. Porter
10. Benson
11. Murley
12. Woodward
13. Joseph
14. Brown-Bampoe
15. Carpenter

16. Blake 17. Obano 18. Sela 19. Sodeke 20. Fisilau 21. C. Bracken 22. Beard 23. Hendy

Only issue with that is if Benson gets injured and then you've got Woodward at 10 with a Beard and Joseph centre combination.

Hendy probably misses out and you go with either Charlie Atkinson, Bailey (if he's fit and in form again) or Worsley. Just give a bit more coverage on the bench, especially as it's against the ABs second string and we might not get away with being as loose as we could be in previous A level fixtures.

[twitchy]

We have so many wingers at the moment. Loader looks really good.

[SixAndAHalf]

Sounds like Tuipolotu, Radwan, Joseph and Pearson will all be in the squad for this.

[Captainhaircut]

Think Carpenter is out for a little while.

I think I’m most interested in hooker (ideally a big carrying one), full back, 9, loosehead, lock and a tight carrying back row. Feel like they are the misses we currently have in depth/first choice.

Jibulu/Kepu, Hendy/TDG, Quirke/McParland, Iyogun/Haffer, Bamber/Richards/Sodeke/Lockett and Ilione (bit bare here- maybe Roots or Pearson who have both started season well and might be worth another look?).

[FKAS]

Ilione is confirmed out until the new year with a shoulder injury.

[Danno]

Ilione is confirmed out until the new year with a shoulder injury.

Saw that earlier. Dreadful luck, I really wanted to see what he could do at international level

[Captainhaircut]

Puja’s fault.

[FKAS]

Puja’s fault.

Puja aka The Jinx.

[Puja]

Puja’s fault.

Did he come off during the game? No? In which case it's FKAS's fault.

Puja

[Scrumhead]

Think Carpenter is out for a little while.

I think I’m most interested in hooker (ideally a big carrying one), full back, 9, loosehead, lock and a tight carrying back row. Feel like they are the misses we currently have in depth/first choice.

Jibulu/Kepu, Hendy/TDG, Quirke/McParland, Iyogun/Haffer, Bamber/Richards/Sodeke/Lockett and Ilione (bit bare here- maybe Roots or Pearson who have both started season well and might be worth another look?).

Agree with most of that. Based upon early season form and the possibility for players from the senior squad dropping down, I’d go for:

1. Iyogun
2. Jibulu
3. Fasogbon
4. Batley
5. Bamber
6. Roots
7. Pearson
8. Fisilau
9. Porter
10. Worsley
11. Caluori
12. Woodward
13. Joseph
14. Radwan
15. de Glanville

16. Blake 17. Haffar 18. Sela 19. Sodeke 20. Lockett 21. C. Bracken 22. C. Atkinson 23. J. Bracken

Two points worth raising …

1.The NZ game won’t ‘capture’ anyone as it’s not their official ‘second team’. If we want to guarantee keeping Tuipolotu and Blake, they’ll need to play vs. Spain. Not sure there’s anyone else of interest with dual qualification prospects? Not sure I’d want to see it, but Tyrone Green is playing well and eligible now.

2. With Mapletoft as coach, there will probably be an emphasis on the ‘pathway’ from the U20s when it comes to any 50:50 calls. For example, Redshaw is only just back from injury but I wouldn’t be totally surprised to see him get the nod ahead of a more experienced player like de Glanville.

[FKAS]

Couple of points from the above.

1. I didn't tempt fate, Puja did.

2. Tyrone Green has been poor this season, wouldn't touch him with a barge pole when we've got actual EQ talent available.

3. Like Scrumhead's team bar the two locks and no backrow on the bench. Would not be surprised to see C Atkinson slot in at 15 given that's where he's been playing for Gloucester. Might open the 22 shirt up for Bailey who then covers more backline positions from the bench.

[Danno]

Couple of points from the above.

1. I didn't tempt fate, Puja did.

Now you've done it

[Puja]

Two points worth raising …

1.The NZ game won’t ‘capture’ anyone as it’s not their official ‘second team’. If we want to guarantee keeping Tuipolotu and Blake, they’ll need to play vs. Spain. Not sure there’s anyone else of interest with dual qualification prospects? Not sure I’d want to see it, but Tyrone Green is playing well and eligible now.

The New Zealand XV is actually their official second team and has been for a few seasons, so it will be a capture game.

Puja

[Which Tyler]

3. Like Scrumhead's team bar the two locks and no backrow on the bench. Would not be surprised to see C Atkinson slot in at 15 given that's where he's been playing for Gloucester. Might open the 22 shirt up for Bailey who then covers more backline positions from the bench.

Poor TdG - he's really not that bad.
A FAR superior FB to CAtkinson (and fairly comfortably the next-best available FB), still only 25 (not exactly an old man ready for the scrap heap), is in genuine good form this season, and also covers wing and theoretically FH and IC (though it's been a few years for anything regular - did get a game FH during pre-season though)

[Scrumhead]

Two points worth raising …

1.The NZ game won’t ‘capture’ anyone as it’s not their official ‘second team’. If we want to guarantee keeping Tuipolotu and Blake, they’ll need to play vs. Spain. Not sure there’s anyone else of interest with dual qualification prospects? Not sure I’d want to see it, but Tyrone Green is playing well and eligible now.

The New Zealand XV is actually their official second team and has been for a few seasons, so it will be a capture game.

Puja

Just read a couple of articles that say it isn’t? Although as always, it’s the media so I wouldn’t totally trust it being accurate.

[FKAS]

3. Like Scrumhead's team bar the two locks and no backrow on the bench. Would not be surprised to see C Atkinson slot in at 15 given that's where he's been playing for Gloucester. Might open the 22 shirt up for Bailey who then covers more backline positions from the bench.

Poor TdG - he's really not that bad.
A FAR superior FB to CAtkinson (and fairly comfortably the next-best available FB), still only 25 (not exactly an old man ready for the scrap heap), is in genuine good form this season, and also covers wing and theoretically FH and IC (though it's been a few years for anything regular - did get a game FH during pre-season though)

I think TdG is decent but C Atkinson has been an England A regular for a while now. Not sure why he's such in favour but he seems to be a favourite.

[Puja]

Two points worth raising …

1.The NZ game won’t ‘capture’ anyone as it’s not their official ‘second team’. If we want to guarantee keeping Tuipolotu and Blake, they’ll need to play vs. Spain. Not sure there’s anyone else of interest with dual qualification prospects? Not sure I’d want to see it, but Tyrone Green is playing well and eligible now.

The New Zealand XV is actually their official second team and has been for a few seasons, so it will be a capture game.

Puja

Just read a couple of articles that say it isn’t? Although as always, it’s the media so I wouldn’t totally trust it being accurate.

It has been announced and described as their second national team before and has captured players in the past, but fuck only knows whether that's true nowadays with the clusterfuck of eligibility. I'm still not recovered from that South Africa A vs England A tour not being official A-team matches because some other South Africa team that hadn't existed for 6 years was nominated as the second side.

Puja

[FKAS]

The New Zealand XV is actually their official second team and has been for a few seasons, so it will be a capture game.

Puja

Just read a couple of articles that say it isn’t? Although as always, it’s the media so I wouldn’t totally trust it being accurate.

It has been announced and described as their second national team before and has captured players in the past, but fuck only knows whether that's true nowadays with the clusterfuck of eligibility. I'm still not recovered from that South Africa A vs England A tour not being official A-team matches because some other South Africa team that hadn't existed for 6 years was nominated as the second side.

Puja

The joys of rugby admin...

Google AI seems to think NZ A is their capture side but who knows. You'd hope that the RFU would straighten this out with the NZRU as I'm sure both unions would like to capture the players featuring but that is a lot of hoping.