England vs New Zealand

[FKAS]

We haven't really kicked like that so far so I'd hope we wouldn't now. With such a mobile and tackle hungry backrow plus the back three we have there should be plenty of contest for any All Black catcher.

Plus NZ looked exceedingly ropey under the high ball vs Scotland, so possibly a weakness that can be exploited.

Trouble is, we have a habit of giving up chances against teams who can find the gap between 13 and wing, and I do not trust Steward to make a 1on1 tackle. So Smith will come on with us trailing by 2 scores...

Other than that, I think it's a good team, I just don't see that Steward brings enough.

Frankly it's amazing that Steward's even a professional rugby player given the prevailing opinion of him on here.

Puja

Meh. TBH, I'm not sure we've produced a quality 15 since Mike Brown

I seem to remember the general complaints about Brown being roughly the same being said about Steward (well apart from the passing).

[Danno]

Quins 15s don't pass. How many times do I have to say it

"It's MY ball! MINE!"

[FKAS]

Quins 15s don't pass. How many times do I have to say it

"It's MY ball! MINE!"

[Stom]

Plus NZ looked exceedingly ropey under the high ball vs Scotland, so possibly a weakness that can be exploited.



Frankly it's amazing that Steward's even a professional rugby player given the prevailing opinion of him on here.

Puja

Meh. TBH, I'm not sure we've produced a quality 15 since Mike Brown

I seem to remember the general complaints about Brown being roughly the same being said about Steward (well apart from the passing).

I may have been tongue in cheek, but there was one thing Brown definitely was, and that was a brilliant last man defender.

[FKAS]

Meh. TBH, I'm not sure we've produced a quality 15 since Mike Brown

I seem to remember the general complaints about Brown being roughly the same being said about Steward (well apart from the passing).

I may have been tongue in cheek, but there was one thing Brown definitely was, and that was a brilliant last man defender.

Brown wasn't fast or nimble but his positioning was good and he was also very aggressive in the tackle which made up for a lot. It's the lack of aggression that generally does for Steward to be fair.

[CunningPunter]

As a related aside, is there any news of Furbank?

I understand his moustache is coming on beautifully.

[p/d]

Got the best - in my book - 11, 13 and 14 starting plus the only decent 15 available.

Find Ford a frustrating player in an England shirt, but hey-ho. Can’t comment on Dingwall, but assume he will have a good game at some time.

Far from convinced Coles is up to it but pleased Pepper keeps his spot.

Good bench, for sure.

[Oakboy]

Long-term, it is going to be fascinating to assess whether SB's 'Pom-squad' selection is/will be genius-level strategy or proof that the better players on the bench should have started in the first place.

4/4 in the AIs and a 6N GS would obviously prove him right.

[fivepointer]

Its smart. He has a lot of good players art his disposal and wants to get the most out of them as he can. I'm not a fan of a 6:2 split but I can see how useful it can be.
I think his general management of the squad has been excellent. He's dropped new players in at the right time and spread the workload where he could.

[Mikey Brown]

It’s also hard to know at this point how much it’s about phasing in guys who’ve had a chunky workload with the Lions tour and missed out on the summer rethink in coaching/strategy.

It wouldn’t surprise me if it’s only a temporary strategy, but it’s one that can really make use of England’s depth which has been rare.

I quite like the idea of picking the best possible bench first - to push it to the extreme - knowing you can still put out a very strong XV. Not every side could do that.

[twitchy]

Thinking about the second row. Do we expect George Martin to make the world cup?

[Which Tyler]

That's a good England team, with not a single selection that I'm unhappy about, given where we are.

The usual issues with a 6:2 split, and with one of those being Spencer - let's just keep Mitchel on for as long as he can possibly manage, and keep Ben as the last reserve to cover a later injury. Everyone else on the bench brings good impact, and I don't see our starters taking a backwards step.



NZ are the better team, but England should be the more confident, and are playing at home - this seems likely to come down to a moment of brilliance, bounce of the ball or ref.s decision.

[Puja]

Long-term, it is going to be fascinating to assess whether SB's 'Pom-squad' selection is/will be genius-level strategy or proof that the better players on the bench should have started in the first place.

4/4 in the AIs and a 6N GS would obviously prove him right.

The pressure on this result on Saturday is unreal for such a nothing game. Win, then it's likely 11/12 wins for the calendar year (no disrespect to Arg), moving up from 7th in the rankings in January to 3rd/4th (depending on other results), and having won 2/3 of the big matches (Ireland, France, NZ). It'll be vindication of Skip Beatboxing's regime and hope that we're building towards a future where the big teams are scared of us, not just wary of a banana skin.

However, if we lose, even with a good performance thwarted by a last minute penalty, then the year is effectively a failure. Even with 10 victories, they will have been the easy ones and we'll have once again fallen short in the big match, with the France win taking on the status of a fluke.

It won't necessarily be the end of all hope for the future, but we'll remain in limbo and unproven - a team that has a puncher's chance of pulling off a big result, rather than one that's building towards being genuinely best in the world.

Seems silly to put so much pressure on a one-off result, but it's the situation we're in, especially given our failure to prove ourselves in 2024.

Puja

[Puja]

Thinking about the second row. Do we expect George Martin to make the world cup?

I think there's a decent chance. This injury that he's been out with this season has been a nerve in his shoulder, which is crappy and needs careful rehab, but it does have the major advantage that his dodgy knee is having its first real proper rest in years. With luck, this'll be the chance for him to get that properly right and resilient and he can come back actually fixed.

Puja

[Oakboy]

It’s also hard to know at this point how much it’s about phasing in guys who’ve had a chunky workload with the Lions tour and missed out on the summer rethink in coaching/strategy.

It wouldn’t surprise me if it’s only a temporary strategy, but it’s one that can really make use of England’s depth which has been rare.

I quite like the idea of picking the best possible bench first - to push it to the extreme - knowing you can still put out a very strong XV. Not every side could do that.

Leaving aside the front row, the issue I can't get my head round is how he chooses those who comfortably do 80 compared with those who expect to come off at 60. Pepper, for example, seems to be alongside Itoje in being judged worthy for 80. Does the 6:2, with two backrowers on the bench give him injury wriggle room? Pepper off at 20, say, leaves one of Earl, Underhill or Coles staying on for 20 longer than anticipated. That cuts across players being told to give their all for 60, burning themselves out by that point.

Yes, it's now a 23 man game but what the policy seems to cut across is replacing players just not performing on the day. Pre-programming must have its 'fors' and 'againsts'.

[TheDasher]

Having spent most of his age group international rugby and the majority of his time at London Irish at 15, Eddie Jones gave Arundell his debut on the wing and from there on, he's been a wing... Will he ever be looked at at 15 again? As I've said before, so many of his highlights have come from 15, he looked phenomenal joining the line, running from deep etc. This never seems to be discussed...

[TheDasher]

Thinking about the second row. Do we expect George Martin to make the world cup?

I'll stick my neck out and say that Joe Batley is better than George Martin, would love to see him phased in somewhere.

[TheDasher]

Got the best - in my book - 11, 13 and 14 starting plus the only decent 15 available.

Find Ford a frustrating player in an England shirt, but hey-ho. Can’t comment on Dingwall, but assume he will have a good game at some time.

Far from convinced Coles is up to it but pleased Pepper keeps his spot.

Good bench, for sure.

Dingwall is good because he's a 'glue player' apparently, despite not having any particular super powers at all. Great for Northampton, ultimately not exceptional enough to be a world cup winning 12 I suspect...

[Stom]

Having spent most of his age group international rugby and the majority of his time at London Irish at 15, Eddie Jones gave Arundell his debut on the wing and from there on, he's been a wing... Will he ever be looked at at 15 again? As I've said before, so many of his highlights have come from 15, he looked phenomenal joining the line, running from deep etc. This never seems to be discussed...

Doesn't bring either of the things we're apparently looking for in a 15. He's a strike runner, not a playmaker nor a kick chaser...

[TheDasher]

Having spent most of his age group international rugby and the majority of his time at London Irish at 15, Eddie Jones gave Arundell his debut on the wing and from there on, he's been a wing... Will he ever be looked at at 15 again? As I've said before, so many of his highlights have come from 15, he looked phenomenal joining the line, running from deep etc. This never seems to be discussed...

Doesn't bring either of the things we're apparently looking for in a 15. He's a strike runner, not a playmaker nor a kick chaser...

I'd suggest he can chase kicks and he's not not skilful with ball in hand, he's just not a fly half pretending to be a full back. I'd say overall across say 10 tests, Arundel would emerge as a better full back than Marcus Smith, by far.

[twitchy]

Thinking about the second row. Do we expect George Martin to make the world cup?

I'll stick my neck out and say that Joe Batley is better than George Martin, would love to see him phased in somewhere.

[Mikey Brown]

Having spent most of his age group international rugby and the majority of his time at London Irish at 15, Eddie Jones gave Arundell his debut on the wing and from there on, he's been a wing... Will he ever be looked at at 15 again? As I've said before, so many of his highlights have come from 15, he looked phenomenal joining the line, running from deep etc. This never seems to be discussed...

Doesn't bring either of the things we're apparently looking for in a 15. He's a strike runner, not a playmaker nor a kick chaser...

I'd suggest he can chase kicks and he's not not skilful with ball in hand, he's just not a fly half pretending to be a full back. I'd say overall across say 10 tests, Arundel would emerge as a better full back than Marcus Smith, by far.

I get that Smith is essentially just there as a broken field runner too, but that’s hardly a glowing endorsement of his skills as a 15. Smith is clearly a far, far superior kicker and passer, whatever not not skilful means, but neither seem particularly suited to the defensive side.

I can see the appeal of wanting to crowbar Arundell’s pace in there while the wing stocks are so high though. Maybe I need to check out his old highlights again, but they do feel old at this point. Some of his finishes when plonked out on to the wing have been great though.

[astralweeks]

Debating to go to the game. Tickets are still coming available on ru returns site. £163 for cheapest, my Scottish wife not sure if she wants to go.
Not sure if I do either. I get seriously peed off when the smug abs win yet again. And then one has to sit through their throat slitting impersonation of a haka. But then of course we will go on and win and I can say I was there like I was in 2002.

[Puja]

Having spent most of his age group international rugby and the majority of his time at London Irish at 15, Eddie Jones gave Arundell his debut on the wing and from there on, he's been a wing... Will he ever be looked at at 15 again? As I've said before, so many of his highlights have come from 15, he looked phenomenal joining the line, running from deep etc. This never seems to be discussed...

Doesn't bring either of the things we're apparently looking for in a 15. He's a strike runner, not a playmaker nor a kick chaser...

I'd suggest he can chase kicks and he's not not skilful with ball in hand, he's just not a fly half pretending to be a full back. I'd say overall across say 10 tests, Arundel would emerge as a better full back than Marcus Smith, by far.

I'm not against it, but across his adult career, he has started a grand total of 10 top-level games at 15. In the last 2.5 years, he has started 3 games at full-back (last one being March 2024) and he has started 31 games on the wing. He's not a full-back playing out of position anymore - he's a winger who has historically played full-back.

Puja

[Which Tyler]

I'm not against it, but across his adult career, he has started a grand total of 10 top-level games at 15. In the last 2.5 years, he has started 3 games at full-back (last one being March 2024) and he has started 31 games on the wing. He's not a full-back playing out of position anymore - he's a winger who has historically played full-back.

Sounds perfect for the 13 shirt, sat outside Steward