England v Argentina SUNDAY 4.10pm

[p/d]

How’s his form since injury? I haven’t really been following the prem

[Which Tyler]

Got to say, pretty harsh to lump Daly in with Slade. Daly was good with England and the Lions pre injury, a real return to form (from somebody who thought he should have been dropped earlier than he was).

Not because he's not good enough, or never going to step up at international level (that's Slade) but because he's a 33 year old centre-come-FB being asked to play his first match in 5 months out on the wing.

Bear in mind we've plenty of posters thinking that 32-year old Ford is unlikely to make it to the RWC because he'll be too old and slow to play FH (where he doesn't rely on pace) - but an older player is fine to play wing (and who does rely on pace).

I've no problem with Daly per se, and I'm only mildly concerned about him slowing down over the next 2 years - it's the reinforcement that we're going safety first in yet another position, with a choice that is far from safe (given the 5 months out, and being asked to play his 3rd choice position).

How’s his form since injury? I haven’t really been following the prem

Whose?
Daly? Nonexistent, as he hasn't played yet

[Which Tyler]

Anyway, Dingwall injured, Ojomoh starts.
Worst of both worlds, Ojomoh is unlikely to have run a single training session as starter, and paired with Slade
https://x.com/EnglandRugby/status/1991899408816832751

[SixAndAHalf]

Fin Smith isn't playing.

I think he's in a win win situation. Already won 3 games this autumn, and ten in a row. Beat the All Blacks last week. In terms of credit in the bank it doesn't get much better. Add in a raft of injuries and it's the perfect chance to say we're going to give a few players the chance against really tough opposition. Nobody is going to tear him apart for that. And it is only one or two players. An Arundell over Daly. Fin Smith over Ford. Give Pollock a start. Not pick Charlie Ewels at all. 5:3 bench. Give Ojomoh a chance off the bench. Can move Dingers out one and test his versatility, or keep Slade on. They'll only learn by playing.

None of those suggested changes excite me that much... think it would just be worsening the side overall. It's not necessarily an exciting team but we are starting AOF, Coles, Pepper, Dingers and IFW who are all early in their test careers. I rate Pollock highly but not sure I'd replace Earl for him.

You're not excited by Arundell and Ojomoh?

And I didn't say for Earl.

Arundell does but so does Daly. Similarly I like Ojomoh but would want him at 12 in this defensive system.

To be fair, Pollock for Earl, Pepper or Underhill wouldn't necessarily excite me - think the back row has worked really well.

[fivepointer]

I'm an Ojomoh fan but this isnt ideal. Hard to see how our backline will have any kind of cohesion given the multiple changes.

[p/d]

Ouch. Tough on Dingwall.

[p/d]

I'm an Ojomoh fan but this isnt ideal. Hard to see how our backline will have any kind of cohesion given the multiple changes.

Agree. But now gives me something to look forward to in the backs.

[FKAS]

Anyway, Dingwall injured, Ojomoh starts.
Worst of both worlds, Ojomoh is unlikely to have run a single training session as starter, and paired with Slade
https://x.com/EnglandRugby/status/1991899408816832751

Oh aye that's a pisser.

At least the experienced players in the backline should mean things shouldn't go to shite too badly and Ojomoh gets to play between an experienced 10 and 13. Even if the 13 really should be pensioned off by now.

[Mikey Brown]

Anyway, Dingwall injured, Ojomoh starts.
Worst of both worlds, Ojomoh is unlikely to have run a single training session as starter, and paired with Slade
https://x.com/EnglandRugby/status/1991899408816832751

Oh aye that's a pisser.

At least the experienced players in the backline should mean things shouldn't go to shite too badly and Ojomoh gets to play between an experienced 10 and 13. Even if the 13 really should be pensioned off by now.

Yep, not completely ideal but at least adds a bit of pace/spark in midfield.

[Oakboy]

Somewhat ironical! I'm delighted for Ojomoh, especially as he's in the 12 shirt. He's got his club SH with him. Ford and Slade will suit him. It's a decent test, albeit because of injury to Dingwall.

Sometimes we need to reel back our prejudices and accept the inevitable. A 12-10 win will do. I actually think it will be much more entertaining.

[twitchy]

It says he was injured vs NZ, so this isn't some huge surprise.

[p/d]

Somewhat ironical! I'm delighted for Ojomoh, especially as he's in the 12 shirt. He's got his club SH with him. Ford and Slade will suit him. It's a decent test, albeit because of injury to Dingwall.

Sometimes we need to reel back our prejudices and accept the inevitable. A 12-10 win will do. I actually think it will be much more entertaining.

Prejudices?

[Mikey Brown]

Somewhat ironical! I'm delighted for Ojomoh, especially as he's in the 12 shirt. He's got his club SH with him. Ford and Slade will suit him. It's a decent test, albeit because of injury to Dingwall.

Sometimes we need to reel back our prejudices and accept the inevitable. A 12-10 win will do. I actually think it will be much more entertaining.

Prejudices?

Ironical!

[Which Tyler]

It says he was injured vs NZ, so this isn't some huge surprise.

Haven't sent that, in which case Max should have had at least 1 session training as a starter

[Oakboy]

George, Martin, Chessum, B Curry, JVP, Dingwall, Lawrence, Freeman, Roebuck, Furbank. It's a pretty extensive injury list and I'm bound to have missed some.

[SixAndAHalf]

Anyway, Dingwall injured, Ojomoh starts.
Worst of both worlds, Ojomoh is unlikely to have run a single training session as starter, and paired with Slade
https://x.com/EnglandRugby/status/1991899408816832751

That's funny! A lot of time wasted debating...

[FKAS]

George, Martin, Chessum, B Curry, JVP, Dingwall, Lawrence, Freeman, Roebuck, Furbank. It's a pretty extensive injury list and I'm bound to have missed some.

Isn't Rodd out as well? Getting towards a full 15 if you include Carpenter and Ilione. Is CCS injured?

1. Rodd
2. George
3.
4. Chessum
5. Martin
6. B Curry
7.
8. Ilione
9. JvP
10. Furbank
11. Freeman
12. Dingwall
13. Lawrence
14. Roebuck
15. Carpenter

[morepork]

I'd keep a close eye on that RG midfield, and they have some pacy outside backs with near French levels of gay abandon.

[FKAS]

Argentina
1 Thomas Gallo
2 Julian Montoya
3 Pedro Delgado
4 Guido Petti
5 Pedro Rubiolo
6 Juan Martin Gonzalez
7 Marcos Kremer
8 Santiago Grondona
9 Simon Benitez Cruz
10 Tomas Albornoz
11 Bautista Delguy
12 Justo Piccardo
13 Matias Moroni
14 Rodrigo Isgro
15 Juan Cruz Mallia

Substitutes
16 Ignacio Ruiz
17 Boris Wenger
18 Tomas Rapetti
19 Franco Molina
20 Pablo Matera
21 Joaquin Oviedo
22 Agustin Moyano
23 Santiago Carreras

[Oakboy]

George, Martin, Chessum, B Curry, JVP, Dingwall, Lawrence, Freeman, Roebuck, Furbank. It's a pretty extensive injury list and I'm bound to have missed some.

Isn't Rodd out as well? Getting towards a full 15 if you include Carpenter and Ilione. Is CCS injured?

1. Rodd
2. George
3.
4. Chessum
5. Martin
6. B Curry
7.
8. Ilione
9. JvP
10. Furbank
11. Freeman
12. Dingwall
13. Lawrence
14. Roebuck
15. Carpenter

13 injured, a decent 23 for Sunday and a fair few left in the squad not needed. It could be a whole lot worse.

[FKAS]

George, Martin, Chessum, B Curry, JVP, Dingwall, Lawrence, Freeman, Roebuck, Furbank. It's a pretty extensive injury list and I'm bound to have missed some.

Isn't Rodd out as well? Getting towards a full 15 if you include Carpenter and Ilione. Is CCS injured?

1. Rodd
2. George
3.
4. Chessum
5. Martin
6. B Curry
7.
8. Ilione
9. JvP
10. Furbank
11. Freeman
12. Dingwall
13. Lawrence
14. Roebuck
15. Carpenter

13 injured, a decent 23 for Sunday and a fair few left in the squad not needed. It could be a whole lot worse.

Yeah developing a decent bit of squad depth.

[Scrumhead]

Argentina
1 Thomas Gallo
2 Julian Montoya
3 Pedro Delgado
4 Guido Petti
5 Pedro Rubiolo
6 Juan Martin Gonzalez
7 Marcos Kremer
8 Santiago Grondona
9 Simon Benitez Cruz
10 Tomas Albornoz
11 Bautista Delguy
12 Justo Piccardo
13 Matias Moroni
14 Rodrigo Isgro
15 Juan Cruz Mallia

Substitutes
16 Ignacio Ruiz
17 Boris Wenger
18 Tomas Rapetti
19 Franco Molina
20 Pablo Matera
21 Joaquin Oviedo
22 Agustin Moyano
23 Santiago Carreras

Interesting lineup and has some interesting parallels to England's. With Dingwall out, we now have a rookie 12 with a highly experienced 13, which is a similar to dynamic to the Piccardo/Molina pairing.

That's a heavyweight back row for Argentina, but I think England should have the edge in the scrum. Conversely, I think Argentina will have the better lineout.

[fivepointer]

I'm expecting a tough game. Argentina look in good form to me with a number of high calibre players. I'm a little uneasy about the changes we've had to make in the backs but at least the pack is largely intact.

[Danno]

Anyway, Dingwall injured, Ojomoh starts.
Worst of both worlds, Ojomoh is unlikely to have run a single training session as starter, and paired with Slade
https://x.com/EnglandRugby/status/1991899408816832751

That's funny! A lot of time wasted debating...

If we can't have a fight on here and have everyone tell Danno he is wrong then what's the point of a forum

[FKAS]

Argentina
1 Thomas Gallo
2 Julian Montoya
3 Pedro Delgado
4 Guido Petti
5 Pedro Rubiolo
6 Juan Martin Gonzalez
7 Marcos Kremer
8 Santiago Grondona
9 Simon Benitez Cruz
10 Tomas Albornoz
11 Bautista Delguy
12 Justo Piccardo
13 Matias Moroni
14 Rodrigo Isgro
15 Juan Cruz Mallia

Substitutes
16 Ignacio Ruiz
17 Boris Wenger
18 Tomas Rapetti
19 Franco Molina
20 Pablo Matera
21 Joaquin Oviedo
22 Agustin Moyano
23 Santiago Carreras

Interesting lineup and has some interesting parallels to England's. With Dingwall out, we now have a rookie 12 with a highly experienced 13, which is a similar to dynamic to the Piccardo/Molina pairing.

That's a heavyweight back row for Argentina, but I think England should have the edge in the scrum. Conversely, I think Argentina will have the better lineout.

I'm a bit concerned about the scrum, Gallo is a canny operator that's been used for impact off the bench recently (if I'm remembering correctly anyway). Short and stocky LH who will be testing AOF's technical skills, not just a big LH he'll be able to get underneath. Massive pack as expected and agreed they'll be good at lineout time.

Piccardo is a unit of a centre, pairing him with the experienced and selfless Moroni should create a nice balance. I was expecting more size though with Chocoberas alongside Piccardo and the Pumas looking to exploit what isn't the biggest England centre combo. The Pumas 6:2 bench is pretty meaty up front with their two backrow subs capable of causing us issues. If Piccardo goes down though they will be left with a backline pretty short on carrying ability though, well unless we're all going to shove a backrow into 12 in an emergency.