New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread

[Puja]

A couple of months ago, I would probably have said the same thing, but Sela impresses me every time I see him play and he doesn’t look like a guy with a handful of first team games under his belt.

Wouldn't you have said the same of Fasogbon though at the same point for him a year or so ago? Second season syndrome is very much a real issue, especially for young props, and it can be accelerated into by being dumped into a higher level and getting a "learning experience" against a horrible old loosehead.

Puja

[Puja]

I think it's too early for Sela. Needs more senior game time and time to develop.

Fasogbon as an option off the bench is fairly idea, massive unit who's mobile. Not sure I'd want him starting a game currently though which is where Davison would become useful. Heyes to start and Fasogbon from the bench would be the preferred but if Heyes has to drop out then Davison starts and Fasogbon remains the impact option.

While I agree with you that it wouldn't be ideal for Fasogbon to start, and there is a lot to be said for picking the option for now rather than just going all-out on potential and development, the question has to be raised as to whether Davison would actually be meaningfully better as a starting international than Fasogbon would, on just current ability only.

Puja

There's not a lot in it certainly but Davison is a canny operator, he's got the experience and knows what's going to be coming from the opposition loosehead. Particularly in the 6N where there's some really tricky customers with Nicky Smith, Schoeman, Porter (a man who simply can't scrummage straight) and any of the many France can put out. Just provide a stable footing for the first half alongside Baxter and then Genge and Fasogbon can turn up the temperature after half time.

I don't see him being able to provide a stable footing is the thing. Just doesn't strike me as good enough.

Entirely possible that I am wrong though - there's a lot of tighthead selection criteria that's really only visible to the coaches in training, so I'm willing to be proven wrong. Not exactly like we've got a wide body of evidence for him at international level yet.

Puja

[FKAS]

While I agree with you that it wouldn't be ideal for Fasogbon to start, and there is a lot to be said for picking the option for now rather than just going all-out on potential and development, the question has to be raised as to whether Davison would actually be meaningfully better as a starting international than Fasogbon would, on just current ability only.

Puja

There's not a lot in it certainly but Davison is a canny operator, he's got the experience and knows what's going to be coming from the opposition loosehead. Particularly in the 6N where there's some really tricky customers with Nicky Smith, Schoeman, Porter (a man who simply can't scrummage straight) and any of the many France can put out. Just provide a stable footing for the first half alongside Baxter and then Genge and Fasogbon can turn up the temperature after half time.

I don't see him being able to provide a stable footing is the thing. Just doesn't strike me as good enough.

Entirely possible that I am wrong though - there's a lot of tighthead selection criteria that's really only visible to the coaches in training, so I'm willing to be proven wrong. Not exactly like we've got a wide body of evidence for him at international level yet.

Puja

Oh I'm not advocating him as a good international tighthead it's just generally preferable to have an experienced option in disaster scenarios (and being three tightheads down would be). Otherwise if the pressure is piling on you've got a youngster starting and another youngster as the potential relief.

Ideally he'd be in the squad and never actually play. Heyes and Fasogbon get the minutes.

[Oakboy]

Just a genuine question of those who know more about front rowers than me, "As a short-term stand-in, is Davison really a better tighthead than Williams?

[Scrumhead]

There's not a lot in it certainly but Davison is a canny operator, he's got the experience and knows what's going to be coming from the opposition loosehead. Particularly in the 6N where there's some really tricky customers with Nicky Smith, Schoeman, Porter (a man who simply can't scrummage straight) and any of the many France can put out. Just provide a stable footing for the first half alongside Baxter and then Genge and Fasogbon can turn up the temperature after half time.

I don't see him being able to provide a stable footing is the thing. Just doesn't strike me as good enough.

Entirely possible that I am wrong though - there's a lot of tighthead selection criteria that's really only visible to the coaches in training, so I'm willing to be proven wrong. Not exactly like we've got a wide body of evidence for him at international level yet.

Puja

Oh I'm not advocating him as a good international tighthead it's just generally preferable to have an experienced option in disaster scenarios (and being three tightheads down would be). Otherwise if the pressure is piling on you've got a youngster starting and another youngster as the potential relief.

Ideally he'd be in the squad and never actually play. Heyes and Fasogbon get the minutes.

Fair enough. Hopefully, we won’t be in the emergency situation.

Sounds like Ireland will definitely be missing Porter and McCarthy. That’s rough. I don’t even know who their 3rd choice would be? Boyle?

Worth noting that Fin Baxter hasn’t been seen in a few weeks. Nothing’s been reported so perhaps it’s nothing too serious, but I hope he’s fit.

[fivepointer]

Just a genuine question of those who know more about front rowers than me, "As a short-term stand-in, is Davison really a better tighthead than Williams?

I'd say no. Williams at least has the international experience under his belt.

[Beasties]

Just a genuine question of those who know more about front rowers than me, "As a short-term stand-in, is Davison really a better tighthead than Williams?

I'd say no. Williams at least has the international experience under his belt.

Don’t know how he’s playing right now, but when Williams was in squads he was perfectly serviceable without exciting anyone. Options were waaay more limited at the time though. Davison’s not bad, but struggles against the best as we saw last weekend.

Puja’s made the right point above. Davison’s a placeholder but no more. Meh. But why would you go back to Williams at this stage?

[Scrumhead]

Hard pass on Williams for me. He’s big and experienced, but that doesn’t translate to being particularly good.

[Which Tyler]

Terrible decision making* by Lawrenc there. On top of losing possession in contact a couple of times.

Not what he'll want just before the 6N


* Gets the ball after a turn-over, had about 1/3 of the width of the pitch, and a 3 on 2 with TdG and Arundell for company - never looks up, just kicks (badly) back to where the other 25 players are

[Puja]

Just a genuine question of those who know more about front rowers than me, "As a short-term stand-in, is Davison really a better tighthead than Williams?

Harry Williams? As in ex-Exeter prop, now playing for Quins? Blimey, hadn't thought of him as any kind of viable options, but I can't think of any other Williamses that would be relevant here, so I assume that's the one you mean.

He has got more international experience, but he is also 34 and was never very good around the pitch even when he was young. I think I'd rather have the younger and better in the loose player, who's been in the squad and knows the calls, especially when he's been playing for a successful team - confidence does carry.

Two bald men fighting over a comb with that "Would you rather", but yeah, I'd pick Davison is that was the choice before me.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

I’m so confused by this tighthead discussion going on in two simultaneous threads.

[Oakboy]

I’m so confused by this tighthead discussion going on in two simultaneous threads.

MB, that will always happen with this catch-all thread on 'form'. (Simultaneous discussion, not your confusion, I hasten to add ).

[Scrumhead]

Saw on another forum that Steward is injured and might miss the 6N. First I’d heard of it.

Could be problematic given Furbank’s latest issue.

[FKAS]

Saw on another forum that Steward is injured and might miss the 6N. First I’d heard of it.

Could be problematic given Furbank’s latest issue.

He took a knock Vs Bayonne but was still able to set up a try before coming off. I don't think there's been any announcement on it and he'd have never been travelling to SA this week anyway. I think people are speculating currently. I'm guessing we'll find out soonish as Tigers will want him back to face Quins next weekend if fit.

[Mikey Brown]

Is Carpenter fit? Has Arundell actually played fullback in the last couple of seasons?

[FKAS]

Is Carpenter fit? Has Arundell actually played fullback in the last couple of seasons?

Yes and March 2024 for Arundell as a fullback.