Clinton

[rowan]

In that case, Donny, we must regard the mainstream American media as being racist and misandrist for comments like this:

Donald J. Trump’s support among white men, the linchpin of his presidential campaign, is showing surprising signs of weakness that could foreclose his only remaining path to victory in November.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/19/us/po ... e-men.html

Also you made no comment about my own description of Trump's supporters as being angry white men, which I actually threw in as my own little test on consistency here.

So what I'm seeing here is a lot of hypocrisy and double-standards which I attribute to the brainwashing power of Western media.

[BBD]

Aww don't be too hard on him, he was probably just being a lazy reader

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Btw, there is nothing wrong with TGI Fridays.

You make a good point and then ruin it with this. Honestly!

[Mellsblue]

I had a hamburger and fries with a Diet Coke at TGI Fridays the other day, I didn't have a starter, but I did have a Mississippi mud pie for dessert.....just how complicit am I?

TGI Fridays... Thats soooooo 90's BBD

It was eaten ironically

This made me lol.

[Sandydragon]

I had a hamburger and fries with a Diet Coke at TGI Fridays the other day, I didn't have a starter, but I did have a Mississippi mud pie for dessert.....just how complicit am I?

You bastard.

[cashead]

I had a hamburger and fries with a Diet Coke at TGI Fridays the other day, I didn't have a starter, but I did have a Mississippi mud pie for dessert.....just how complicit am I?

A Diet Coke? You disgust me.

[Digby]

The statistics for casualties resulting from US wars and interventions since WWII, and specifically relating to Muslims since the beginning of the 1990s, were given by American sources themselves. However, exact figures would be nearly impossible to attain, partly because the US military doesn't do body counts on non-Americans. Your viewpoint nonetheless comes across as denialist.

You may be some distance from others agreeing all those wars are US wars, and too making any claim all those killed were in fact murdered by the Americans when it seems somewhat likely most were not killed by the Americans is attributing too much to the US.

If one simply wanted to claim the USA is spending a lot of money destabilising large areas of the world and ideally they'd cease doing that without simply pursuing an isolationist stance as an alternative then fair enough.

[kk67]

That's a marvellous pice of sexism. The Oxford graduate and barrister little lady couldn't possibly have a mind of her own.

Denis paid for her Bar qualifications,......how many cases did she actually deal with..?. Tax was her speciality wasn't it..?.
Not much time in court, no surprises that stealth tax has become central to how the upper class deal with this country and why they are giving away huge tax breaks to scum of the earth industrialists.

He paid her fees, which is not at all the same thing as paying for her qualifications. nice try to row out from your spectacular sexism.

Let me edit this,...

[Coco]

Btw, there is nothing wrong with TGI Fridays.

Try telling that to white middle class American women and see what happens

I'm just bitter because I broke a molar eating a cheeseburger at TGI Fridays quite a while ago, and have not had the courage to go back since. True story.

[Digby]

Btw, there is nothing wrong with TGI Fridays.

Try telling that to white middle class American women and see what happens

I'm just bitter because I broke a molar eating a cheeseburger at TGI Fridays quite a while ago, and have not had the courage to go back since. True story.

Genuine iceberg lettuce in the burger?

[Coco]

Try telling that to white middle class American women and see what happens

I'm just bitter because I broke a molar eating a cheeseburger at TGI Fridays quite a while ago, and have not had the courage to go back since. True story.

Genuine iceberg lettuce in the burger?

Haha! I wish. It was the biggest bone shard I have ever seen in ground meat. Needless to say, the manager of the restaurant was horrified at the sight of the culprit, and the damage. He made sure my emergency dental work was taken care of by their insurance. I ended up needing a crown. Sigh...Good times.

[Lizard]

I'm in a bar in Texas. Any trigger words I should avoid should I strike up conversation with a local?

Difficulty level: 1 pint away from being quite unsteady.


Sent from my genius using brilliance

[Coco]

I'm in a bar in Texas. Any trigger words I should avoid should I strike up conversation with a local?

Difficulty level: 1 pint away from being quite unsteady.


Sent from my genius using brilliance

Yes..

1. California
2. Gun control
3. Any mention of how TexMex is not real Mexican food.

[rowan]

The statistics for casualties resulting from US wars and interventions since WWII, and specifically relating to Muslims since the beginning of the 1990s, were given by American sources themselves. However, exact figures would be nearly impossible to attain, partly because the US military doesn't do body counts on non-Americans. Your viewpoint nonetheless comes across as denialist.

You may be some distance from others agreeing all those wars are US wars, and too making any claim all those killed were in fact murdered by the Americans when it seems somewhat likely most were not killed by the Americans is attributing too much to the US.

If one simply wanted to claim the USA is spending a lot of money destabilising large areas of the world and ideally they'd cease doing that without simply pursuing an isolationist stance as an alternative then fair enough.

Obviously nobody is ever really going to know, since the Americans don't do body counts on non-Americans. So I'm only quoting what I read, and I have to say that, if anything, the figures seem fairly conservative to me, and could easily be much, much higher, especially if we include the fate of countless refugees who have been forced to flee from these conflicts.


US Has Killed More Than 20 Million People in 37 “Victim Nations” Since World War II – Here’s How

Recently, the world commemorated another anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, which changed the world as we knew it, and has since, cast a terroristic haze over the planet. The War on Terror was engaged; the premise was a globally united citizen, freedom was under attack, “God Bless America.”

Admitting, in the famous Bush speech, to rally the world to a new war, he stated this:

“The Americans have known wars, but for the past 136 years, they have been wars on foreign soil, except for one Sunday in 1941 [Pearl Harbour].”

It is with this quote that I bring the attention to the countless deaths over not 136 years, but only those since World War II, that the United States of America can be partially held culpable.

Proxy wars, particularly, hold some of the highest numbers; there is barely a nation where the U.S. has not permeated its military might through borders. Yes, wars are messy and incredibly complex. But it is important to recognize, that although Russia, China, North Korea and all the other nations accused of bloodshed are guilty in their own rights, the United States must share a large part of the responsibility.

One study, compiled by James A. Lucas, explains with hard evidence, 37 nations deeply affected by U.S. involvement. However, anyone with a history book can see for themselves that the self-proclaimed freedom fighter – the U.S. – is not all that it seems.

Afghanistan and Russia

Most are familiar with the ‘Mujahadeen’ name. It conjures up Russians, war, and the Soviet Union invading Afghanistan.

What a lot don’t know is how the proxy war came about, or that Afghanistan – a secular nation at the time – was friendly with its Russian neighbors.

So what happened?

In 1998, Zbigniew Brzezinski admitted to a CIA-instigated battle which saw 12,000 deaths in Afghanistan directly attributed to the United States. The Carter administration, at the time, had agreed to provide “secret aid” to rebels wanting to overthrow the pro-Soviet regime. Well aware that providing this aid would create a Soviet military intervention, the act was signed off.

In Brzezinski’s words in 1998, “Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it?”

6 billion dollars later and a 10-year war, over a million were reported dead.

Zbigniew Brzezinski happily admitted to CIA involvement to lure in the Soviet Union.

There are smaller nations, less notable in the history books, but equally devastated by the overthrows, coups and interventions that took place, courtesy of the United States.

Angola’s civil war lasted 26 years, with a reported 300,000 to 750,000 dead, depending on the literature you read.

It was reported that Kissinger had claimed that the US had to intervene in Angola because “the Soviet Union was already providing military aid to the Popular Movement for the Liberation of Angola (MPLA) in the form of Cuban troops.” It was, years later, discovered that he lied and that the Soviet Union was very reluctant to become involved in Angola, in the first place.

Chad saw around 40,000 killed and over 200,000 tortured after the CIA assisted Hissen Habre into power in 1982.

Then there is the famous CIA intervention with Chile’s elections and Salvador Allende, who became elected president. On Sept. 11, 1973, Allende either suicided or was assassinated. General Augusto Pinochet rose to power in 1974 – much to Henry Kissinger’s approval, and thousands were murdered, tortured or simply disappeared.

In the 1960s the Dominican Republic witnessed 3,000 deaths after a CIA coup overthrew Juan Bosch. When the citizens tried to reelect the man, the U.S. invaded with 22,000 military.

Chilean President Salvador Allende, flanked by body guards during the coup on 11 September 1973. Later that day, Allende was reported dead.

The Korean War? The “U.S. dropped 650,000 tons of bombs, including 43,000 napalm bombs.” Fatalities stand anywhere between a few hundred thousand to 4.5 million for the Koreans and Chinese, depending on the literature read.

The Vietnam War? If you include Laos, where an estimated 200,000 died from U.S. bombs, it bumps up the already 5.1 million deaths estimated by the Vietnam government – but just a little bit.

Cambodia and the Khmer Rouge? Millions were slaughtered after the U.S. left the country in tatters, providing a vacuum of power for Pol Pot’s psychopathic tendencies.

Or we could focus on the pivotal role the U.S. played in placing General Suharto as leader of Indonesia after the East Timor atrocities of 1975, leaving over a quarter of the population dead. That was Gerald Ford and Kissinger’s handy work, providing Suharto with American arms…

In 1991 it happened again, with East Timorese protesters in Dili gunned down by Suharto’s military.

Notably, we can’t forget the Iraq Wars, post sanctions: “excessive deaths among children” under 5 stand at 227,000 with a real estimate closer to 350,000, according to some statisticians. Let me say that again: Quarter of a million children under 5. Dead.

In Conclusion…

As one goes through statistics like these, it becomes increasingly difficult to remain impartial.

Did the past wars create the build up to the 9/11 tragedy?

I don’t say it lightly; the victims of that time, and all the innocent civilians caught up in America’s wrath since Bush’s War on Terror commenced, have suffered greatly. Everyone since, is suffering.

Stepping into civil wars, instigating coups, disrupting functional regimes, baiting nations into proxy wars…how did 9/11 not happen sooner?

http://anonhq.com/war-on-terror-lest-we ... oup-detat/

[Digby]

So basically the US didn't kill most of those people, and rather are involved in influencing actions like a great many others

[rowan]

Interesting . . .

[rowan]

[rowan]

I think the main point of that analysis was that Lester Holt's questioning was not only biased against Trump but - if we are honest about it - completely sexist against Trump. Holt wanted Trump to go into detail on his taxes, but did he ask Clinton to go into detail on her missing emails? No, instead it was Trump who was accused of lack of transparency!! Neither was there any intense questioning on her support for wars in the Middle East and donations her foundation has received from America's fellow protagonists in those conflicts. But Americans clearly don't care about the countries they've destroyed or Clinton wouldn't even be a candidate. Instead it was Trump who was treated as the potential warmonger; Trump who was interrogated like a criminal while Clinton received the kid-glove treatment. But the whole thing is a charade anyway. It's all going according to the script - written upstairs a long time ago.

[WaspInWales]

I think the main point of that analysis was that Lester Holt's questioning was not only biased against Trump but - if we are honest about it - completely sexist against Trump. Holt wanted Trump to go into detail on his taxes, but did he ask Clinton to go into detail on her missing emails? No, instead it was Trump who was accused of lack of transparency!! Neither was there any intense questioning on her support for wars in the Middle East and donations her foundation has received from America's fellow protagonists in those conflicts. But Americans clearly don't care about the countries they've destroyed or Clinton wouldn't even be a candidate. Instead it was Trump who was treated as the potential warmonger; Trump who was interrogated like a criminal while Clinton received the kid-glove treatment. But the whole thing is a charade anyway. It's all going according to the script - written upstairs a long time ago.

I didn't watch the debate but could some of those questions which you say were not asked of Clinton, could've been asked to Trump too...especially the support of the Iraq invasion? Trump has gone on record before to say he supported the invasion, only to change his tune when public opinion started to change. He is a fuckwit of the highest order. This is not an endorsement of Clinton who is morally deranged.

Anyway, gonna try to watch the debate later today to form more of an informed opinion, just wanted to point the above out.

[Digby]

Trump simply continues his lunacy by it would seem trying to say his bad answers were down to getting the wrong questions, which given a president can expect the odd unexpected event is perhaps a questionable defensive play on Trump's part.

Yes there could have been different questions, but frankly he could've had much worse thrown at him.

[rowan]

Well, if you're going to interrogate one candidate on war more than the other it should be the one who officially supported the invasion of Iraq and oversaw the destruction of Libya as Secretary of State, and not the one who might have said this or might have said that at any particularly time.

Don't let that lead you to support for Trump, however. I've stated all along I only regard him as an actor playing a role.

[WaspInWales]

40 minutes in...Trump is a fucking idiot. Clinton comfortably ahead so far. Articulate, reasoned and pretty clear.

Trump's hand gestures and promises without actually giving any policies is just insane but for some daft reason, some Americans love it. I can't understand his complaints about how he was treated during the debate but he has constantly butted in and made remarks when it wasn't his turn to do so. The constant denials of what he has previously said is ridiculous as it's easy to check the truth.

If I were an undecided US voter with no pre-conceptions of either candidate, I'd definitely be leaning towards Clinton. As it is, I'm an outsider looking in and I'm astounded that these two fucktards are the best people a nation of over 300 million in population can come up with to lead them!

[WaspInWales]

Trump on Iran:

I met with Bibi Netanyahu the other day, believe me, he's not a happy camper

Wonder what else Donald can help Bibi with?

[WaspInWales]

I just don't get Trump's repeated denials to comments he has previously made. It's easy to check the truth and his denials about Iraq, Libya and a host of other issues just make him look like a lying cunt. A competent politician will sidestep, divert, deflect these kind of questions but Trump just straight up lies about it.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

I think the main point of that analysis was that Lester Holt's questioning was not only biased against Trump but - if we are honest about it - completely sexist against Trump. Holt wanted Trump to go into detail on his taxes, but did he ask Clinton to go into detail on her missing emails? No, instead it was Trump who was accused of lack of transparency!! Neither was there any intense questioning on her support for wars in the Middle East and donations her foundation has received from America's fellow protagonists in those conflicts. But Americans clearly don't care about the countries they've destroyed or Clinton wouldn't even be a candidate. Instead it was Trump who was treated as the potential warmonger; Trump who was interrogated like a criminal while Clinton received the kid-glove treatment. But the whole thing is a charade anyway. It's all going according to the script - written upstairs a long time ago.

Ah so it's basic misogyny that drives your hatred of Hillary. It all becomes clear.