Corbyn Wins

[Mellsblue]

Countering perceived hyperbole with anecdotal hyperbole. Nice. Best we just leave things as they are then.

I witnessed first hand such hyperbole on wide and varied media. To me it's not anecdotal.

My point is that, just as many would see Fox as PM as dangerous so people see Corbyn as PM as dangerous. Myself, who is quite happy to see power float around the middle whilst preferably just to the right, I see both scenarios as dangerous. Though, for some reason you took that to mean that I thought Corbyn would turn the UK into some international outcast. Perhaps we have different ideas of what dangerous is. To me it's a lurch away from what has been the centre ground since I was born, whether that be left or right. For someone who waxes lyrical about the dangerous free marketeers in the NZ political system I thought you'd understand.

Thanks for the critcism, but NZ and the UK are cast in the same mold. Politicians in both countries push this centre ground myth on stage and cater to slash and sell behind the scenes. When they are done, they get a nice cushy payout on the board of directors somewhere.

Sounds dangerous.

[Mellsblue]

And those that do tend to seek out one which accords with their prejudices.

Yeah. £360 pa for the Times. £360m turnover from 140,000 subscribers in 2013.

I pay £18 per month. Absolute bargain, even if it feels like they should be paying me when I try and fail to read Giles Coren. How he came from the same genepool as Victoria I'll never understand. Makes me doubt science, all of it.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Tabloid sales really aren't that high, most people in the country don't read a paper.

And those that do tend to seek out one which accords with their prejudices.

Actually, I feel that, especially nowadays, Tabloid readers have been reading the same paper for decades. They're not new readers (unless children of old readers, sometimes), and as the paper has changed its tone towards one problem or another, the individuals PoV is also changed. That's why it's dangerous.

The younger generation are more likely to gather their news from Facebook, Twitter, etc., which is why the classification of FB, Twitter, etc., as tech companies and not media companies is also dangerous. Newspapers were not classed as tech just because they had printing presses...

But, sorry, that's a different discussion

They may adjust their view but largely they are following rather than leading. That's why the Sunday Times supported Remain whilst The Times was Leave.

[Mellsblue]

And those that do tend to seek out one which accords with their prejudices.

Actually, I feel that, especially nowadays, Tabloid readers have been reading the same paper for decades. They're not new readers (unless children of old readers, sometimes), and as the paper has changed its tone towards one problem or another, the individuals PoV is also changed. That's why it's dangerous.

The younger generation are more likely to gather their news from Facebook, Twitter, etc., which is why the classification of FB, Twitter, etc., as tech companies and not media companies is also dangerous. Newspapers were not classed as tech just because they had printing presses...

But, sorry, that's a different discussion

That's why the Sunday Times supported Remain whilst The Times was Leave.

T'other way round. Yet The Times still had prominent Brexit proponents writing opinion pieces. It's one of the things I like about The Times, they will regularly have opinion pieces from those who won't hold anywhere near a similar view to the average Times reader.

[kk67]

Actually, I feel that, especially nowadays, Tabloid readers have been reading the same paper for decades. They're not new readers (unless children of old readers, sometimes), and as the paper has changed its tone towards one problem or another, the individuals PoV is also changed. That's why it's dangerous.

The younger generation are more likely to gather their news from Facebook, Twitter, etc., which is why the classification of FB, Twitter, etc., as tech companies and not media companies is also dangerous. Newspapers were not classed as tech just because they had printing presses...

But, sorry, that's a different discussion

That's why the Sunday Times supported Remain whilst The Times was Leave.

T'other way round. Yet The Times still had prominent Brexit proponents writing opinion pieces. It's one of the things I like about The Times, they will regularly have opinion pieces from those who won't hold anywhere near a similar view to the average Times reader.

And how do you feel about the Murdoch press simultaneously supporting and refusing the Scottish vote. Depending on where they were selling their bog roll.
Let's not kid ourselves.......the Murdoch press will support anything that makes a buck. He's a better PT Barnum than Trump......but they're both morons who think they deserve to run the planet. We are already in Jonathon Price territory.

[Mellsblue]

That's why the Sunday Times supported Remain whilst The Times was Leave.

T'other way round. Yet The Times still had prominent Brexit proponents writing opinion pieces. It's one of the things I like about The Times, they will regularly have opinion pieces from those who won't hold anywhere near a similar view to the average Times reader.

And how do you feel about the Murdoch press simultaneously supporting and refusing the Scottish vote. Depending on where they were selling their bog roll.
Let's not kid ourselves.......the Murdoch press will support anything that makes a buck. He's a better PT Barnum than Trump......but they're both morons who think they deserve to run the planet. We are already in Jonathon Price territory.

I'm confused. Are they telling us what to think or are we telling them what to write.

[Sandydragon]

Actually, I feel that, especially nowadays, Tabloid readers have been reading the same paper for decades. They're not new readers (unless children of old readers, sometimes), and as the paper has changed its tone towards one problem or another, the individuals PoV is also changed. That's why it's dangerous.

The younger generation are more likely to gather their news from Facebook, Twitter, etc., which is why the classification of FB, Twitter, etc., as tech companies and not media companies is also dangerous. Newspapers were not classed as tech just because they had printing presses...

But, sorry, that's a different discussion

That's why the Sunday Times supported Remain whilst The Times was Leave.

T'other way round. Yet The Times still had prominent Brexit proponents writing opinion pieces. It's one of the things I like about The Times, they will regularly have opinion pieces from those who won't hold anywhere near a similar view to the average Times reader.

Agreed

[Mellsblue]

Corbyn's reshuffle doesn't exactly scream rapprochement.

Diane Abbot to shadow Home Secretary, Winterton moved from chief whip, and the new shadow defence secretary is anti-Trident. The lady who ran the 'independent' inquiry into anti-semitism in the party is now shadow attorney general.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Corbyn's reshuffle doesn't exactly scream rapprochement.

Diane Abbot to shadow Home Secretary, Winterton moved from chief whip, and the new shadow defence secretary is anti-Trident. The lady who ran the 'independent' inquiry into anti-semitism in the party is now shadow attorney general.

I really don't get why it should. He won. For whatever reason the views of most of the PLP are now rump views in the context of the Labour Party as a whole. The PLP need to get over themselves and shut up for a bit. They need to try to influence policy from the background and concentrate on the tories at least until Corbyn comes up with policies they can't support.

[Sandydragon]

Corbyn's reshuffle doesn't exactly scream rapprochement.

Diane Abbot to shadow Home Secretary, Winterton moved from chief whip, and the new shadow defence secretary is anti-Trident. The lady who ran the 'independent' inquiry into anti-semitism in the party is now shadow attorney general.

I really don't get why it should. He won. For whatever reason the views of most of the PLP are now rump views in the context of the Labour Party as a whole. The PLP need to get over themselves and shut up for a bit. They need to try to influence policy from the background and concentrate on the tories at least until Corbyn comes up with policies they can't support.

Some time next week then?

I kind of agree with you. The PLP has lost control of the party and their 'moderate voices' are now overshadowed by those further to the left. Either they look to wrestle back control, which will take years and will probably involve a few electoral kickings along the way and some of the new members losing interest. Or they split and take their chances in forming a new party.

This third way of constantly moaning isn't doing them any favours.

[Mellsblue]

Corbyn's reshuffle doesn't exactly scream rapprochement.

Diane Abbot to shadow Home Secretary, Winterton moved from chief whip, and the new shadow defence secretary is anti-Trident. The lady who ran the 'independent' inquiry into anti-semitism in the party is now shadow attorney general.

I really don't get why it should. He won. For whatever reason the views of most of the PLP are now rump views in the context of the Labour Party as a whole. The PLP need to get over themselves and shut up for a bit. They need to try to influence policy from the background and concentrate on the tories at least until Corbyn comes up with policies they can't support.

Agree with you but he and his allies have said there would be compromise. If he'd come out and said that he had an overwhelming mandate and he'd take the party in which ever direction he liked then I wouldn't argue with that, but he didn't.

[Mellsblue]

Rumours that Blair is reaching out to old donors and contacts with a view to fronting a new party. Perhaps he and D Miliband will come charging in on their white horse to save the centre-left.

We live turbulent but interesting times.

[jared_7]

Rumours that Blair is reaching out to old donors and contacts with a view to fronting a new party. Perhaps he and D Miliband will come charging in on their white horse to save the centre-left.

We live turbulent but interesting times.

Centre-left?

[Mellsblue]

Rumours that Blair is reaching out to old donors and contacts with a view to fronting a new party. Perhaps he and D Miliband will come charging in on their white horse to save the centre-left.

We live turbulent but interesting times.

Centre-left?

Let's hope so. Otherwise a party left of centre haven't won an election since the 70's.

[fivepointer]

Corbyn's reshuffle doesn't exactly scream rapprochement.

Diane Abbot to shadow Home Secretary, Winterton moved from chief whip, and the new shadow defence secretary is anti-Trident. The lady who ran the 'independent' inquiry into anti-semitism in the party is now shadow attorney general.

I really don't get why it should. He won. For whatever reason the views of most of the PLP are now rump views in the context of the Labour Party as a whole. The PLP need to get over themselves and shut up for a bit. They need to try to influence policy from the background and concentrate on the tories at least until Corbyn comes up with policies they can't support.

Agree with you but he and his allies have said there would be compromise. If he'd come out and said that he had an overwhelming mandate and he'd take the party in which ever direction he liked then I wouldn't argue with that, but he didn't.

There wont be much compromise, if any. Corbyn and McDonnell simply aren't interested.

There are 3 things that Corbyn could do which would help party unity at Westminster enormously.

Banish all talk of deselection
Properly support and stand with his MP's who are receiving abuse
Agree to some form of shadow cabinet election

He's shown little interest in doing any of these things so I don't expect him to properly "reach out"

The PLP, or elements of it, do need to shut up and accept Corbyn won and for now is fireproof. Their best bet is to wait for him to falter - which he will - and for his support base to erode.

[Sandydragon]

Rumours that Blair is reaching out to old donors and contacts with a view to fronting a new party. Perhaps he and D Miliband will come charging in on their white horse to save the centre-left.

We live turbulent but interesting times.

I wonder if Blair realizes just how much he is loathed? David Miliband might have sufficient gravitas to achieve something, but it will be hard work to build a party from the top down.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

I really don't get why it should. He won. For whatever reason the views of most of the PLP are now rump views in the context of the Labour Party as a whole. The PLP need to get over themselves and shut up for a bit. They need to try to influence policy from the background and concentrate on the tories at least until Corbyn comes up with policies they can't support.

Agree with you but he and his allies have said there would be compromise. If he'd come out and said that he had an overwhelming mandate and he'd take the party in which ever direction he liked then I wouldn't argue with that, but he didn't.

There wont be much compromise, if any. Corbyn and McDonnell simply aren't interested.

There are 3 things that Corbyn could do which would help party unity at Westminster enormously.

Banish all talk of deselection
Properly support and stand with his MP's who are receiving abuse
Agree to some form of shadow cabinet election

He's shown little interest in doing any of these things so I don't expect him to properly "reach out"

The PLP, or elements of it, do need to shut up and accept Corbyn won and for now is fireproof. Their best bet is to wait for him to falter - which he will - and for his support base to erode.

They can't banish all talk of deselection because Labour MPs are paranoid about it. Corbyn and McDonnell have said repeatedly and unambiguously that they are not calling for any deselections and don't encourage it. Furthermore they've said that there's a process in place to deal with the boundary changes. From the centre they can do no more. There will undoubtedly BE deselections, but in public at least Corbyn has done everything he can to avoid it.

It seems to me that his compromise is in letting these MPs remain as candidates. It's certainly within his sphere of influence to end the vast majority of their candidatures in the next election.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Rumours that Blair is reaching out to old donors and contacts with a view to fronting a new party. Perhaps he and D Miliband will come charging in on their white horse to save the centre-left.

We live turbulent but interesting times.

Centre-left?

Let's hope so. Otherwise a party left of centre haven't won an election since the 70's.

If indeed ever. If you actually look at the welfare state as invented and the beveridge report the likes of jared would probably call it dangerously reactionary.

[Digby]

If indeed ever. If you actually look at the welfare state as invented and the beveridge report the likes of jared would probably call it dangerously reactionary.

Reactionary which way? Which is to ask is Jared to the left or right?

[Digby]

It's now been made clear what 'straight talking honest politics means', that being: "We now face the task of creating a New Britain from the fourth industrial revolution - powered by the internet of things and big data to develop cyber physical systems and smart factories"

Whether the Labour party's Glorious Leader™ was talking about the British economy or trying his hand at scripting the next Terminator film isn't really clear.

[Donny osmond]

He's taken plenty of stick for that, and I'm not here to defend him, but I have to say it makes sense to me, albeit a particularly clumsy sentence.

That maybe says more about me than I should really reveal.

[Sandydragon]

If Britain is going to be a leader in ecommerce and all things digital then its good to see Labour getting on board. At least for this week.

Sadly, I think he is using terms he doesn't understand (most people who mention cyber, internet of things etc are talking bollocks most of the time) and I don't think he has fully grasped the potential for high tech to undermine the job prospects of his party (and TU) members.

[Digby]

I only heard about it on what I think is the repeat of HIGNFY last night, and it amused me, also I suspect we know what's he's trying to say but it is terribly written and nothing like straight talking honest politics which he ran his campaign on. That said his real problem with presenting that sort of vision is investment, and leaving aside there's little in Corbyn's histoy that suggests he's active on developing technologies that blur the cyber and the physical there's sod all to suggest Jermey's the man you'd want to talk to about driving entrepreneurial investment which is what this will need in a capitalist economy.

[Sandydragon]

I only heard about it on what I think is the repeat of HIGNFY last night, and it amused me, also I suspect we know what's he's trying to say but it is terribly written and nothing like straight talking honest politics which he ran his campaign on. That said his real problem with presenting that sort of vision is investment, and leaving aside there's little in Corbyn's histoy that suggests he's active on developing technologies that blur the cyber and the physical there's sod all to suggest Jermey's the man you'd want to talk to about driving entrepreneurial investment which is what this will need in a capitalist economy.

Indeed, in fact he is likely to do exactly the opposite.

[Digby]

I only heard about it on what I think is the repeat of HIGNFY last night, and it amused me, also I suspect we know what's he's trying to say but it is terribly written and nothing like straight talking honest politics which he ran his campaign on. That said his real problem with presenting that sort of vision is investment, and leaving aside there's little in Corbyn's histoy that suggests he's active on developing technologies that blur the cyber and the physical there's sod all to suggest Jermey's the man you'd want to talk to about driving entrepreneurial investment which is what this will need in a capitalist economy.

Indeed, in fact he is likely to do exactly the opposite.

I suspect for himself and his party he'd do much better not worrying about a coherent message with policies that stack together as a coherent whole (in as much as any of the major parties manage that anyway) and instead do as Trump or UKIP did/do and joust spout rabid nonsense which speaks to the lunatics who might vote for you, and then he'd still get the labour voters who'll vote labour come what may on top. With that he doesn't need to worry about having a message on the '4th industrial revolution' which forms part of a wider cogent manifesto, he's sucked at that so far and if Ed Miliband couldn't speak to the middle there's no way Glorious Leader™ will

I do worry about that sort of approach in politics, that attack groups can go after specific areas without having to explain how their ideas would work as a whole. But I don't know the Glorious Leader™ is worried about the bigger picture.