So, (some of) the truth about Syria

[rowan]

A government committing war crimes, you say? Okay, so top of the list is America, followed by the likes of the UK, France, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Turkey et al.

Secondly, the notion that Russia is in Syria to shoot civilians for sport is entirely juvenile, and extremely ironic. The terrorists the above-mentioned nations send in there are now holed up with civilians, naturally. Just check out some of the material that's been posted on this thread, along with those from UK news services themselves.

Meanwhile, a quick google dispelled your comments on Amnesty - this just one of numerous headlines it immediately brought up:

Amnesty is run by US State Department representatives, funded by convicted financial criminals, and threatens real human rights advocacy worldwide. https://www.sott.net/article/250087-Amn ... man-Rights

[Eugene Wrayburn]

A government committing war crimes, you say? Okay, so top of the list is America, followed by the likes of the UK, France, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Turkey et al.

Secondly, the notion that Russia is in Syria to shoot civilians for sport is entirely juvenile, and extremely ironic. The terrorists the above-mentioned nations send in there are now holed up with civilians, naturally. Just check out some of the material that's been posted on this thread, along with those from UK news services themselves.

Meanwhile, a quick google dispelled your comments on Amnesty - this just one of numerous headlines it immediately brought up:

Amnesty is run by US State Department representatives, funded by convicted financial criminals, and threatens real human rights advocacy worldwide. https://www.sott.net/article/250087-Amn ... man-Rights

You are truly the most credulous fool I've ever come across. Congratulations.

[Digby]

A government committing war crimes, you say? Okay, so top of the list is America, followed by the likes of the UK, France, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Turkey et al.

Secondly, the notion that Russia is in Syria to shoot civilians for sport is entirely juvenile, and extremely ironic. The terrorists the above-mentioned nations send in there are now holed up with civilians, naturally. Just check out some of the material that's been posted on this thread, along with those from UK news services themselves.

Meanwhile, a quick google dispelled your comments on Amnesty - this just one of numerous headlines it immediately brought up:

Amnesty is run by US State Department representatives, funded by convicted financial criminals, and threatens real human rights advocacy worldwide. https://www.sott.net/article/250087-Amn ... man-Rights

You are truly the most credulous fool I've ever come across. Congratulations.

I'm not sure about that, it might be the case, or he may enjoy simply posting up something, anything, to get responses. Frankly it seems a 50/50 shot, though odd either way.

[rowan]

Here's a brief history of the situation, for those actually interested in the topic, including how a US-backed attempted coup in 1949 pushed Syria into Russian arms, how Israel illegally occupied Syrian territory in 1967 (and remains there to this day), and how, of course, the US included Syria on a hit-list of Islamic nations it wanted to wipe out after 9/11:

The point is for Hillary not only to ascend to power—whatever that might require—but to prepare the people for more Afghanistans, Iraqs and Libyas in the process. The point is to lull the people into historical amnesia, blind them to Hillary’s record of Goldwater-type reckless militarism, exploit the Cold War mentality lingering among the most backward and ignorant, and insure that the electorate that, while generally deploring the result of the rigged election in November, will soon afterwards rally behind corrupt Hillary as soon as she seizes on some pretext for war.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/10/14/ ... -on-syria/

[Digby]

Here's a brief history of the situation, for those actually interested in the topic

Nobody interested in the topic is going to read counterpoint, that's for people interested in howling at the moon.

[Sandydragon]

Of course, Syria is just a poor victim of global power politics. Let's ignore it's aggressive behaviour in Lebanon. Or indeed the wars of aggression against Israel, where it lost the golan heights as a result. The Assad regime is a brutal dictatorship which results in theAlawite minority dominating the majority. Any uprising is brutally put down.

But of course, none of what is happening is the fault of Assad.

[Digby]

Of course, Syria is just a poor victim of global power politics. Let's ignore it's aggressive behaviour in Lebanon. Or indeed the wars of aggression against Israel, where it lost the golan heights as a result. The Assad regime is a brutal dictatorship which results in theAlawite minority dominating the majority. Any uprising is brutally put down.

But of course, none of what is happening is the fault of Assad.

Allowing for that, which even means allowing for the thousands of Syrians put to death with their eyes gouged out under the Assad regime the Russians may have a point that it's better the devil you know, the Russians further have a point that in rather overstepping the mandate in Libya the various western powers haven't overly helped. It's repugnant to think of Assad staying in power, but...

[rowan]

So you've bought all the standard Hitler-of-the-Month propaganda that precedes America's destruction of Middle Eastern nations then. You've also ignored not only history, but international law, once again, because the UN had adjudged Israel's occupation of the Golan Heights to be illegal. Assad was sipping tea with QEII not so long ago and being praised by the likes of Blair and the Clintons. Sound familiar? These are also the vicious warmongers who have turned on him, and who are themselves much worse. Should we therefore destroy America and the UK then? Of course, it's been the same old story again and again as the US continues to its campaign to effectively colonize the entire Middle East.

[Digby]

So you've bought all the standard Hitler-of-the-Month propaganda that precedes America's destruction of Middle Eastern nations then. You've also ignored not only history, but international law, once again, because the UN had adjudged Israel's occupation of the Golan Heights to be illegal. Assad was sipping tea with QEII not so long ago and being praised by the likes of Blair and the Clintons. Sound familiar? These are also the vicious warmongers who have turned on him, and who are themselves much worse. Should we therefore destroy America and the UK then? Of course, it's been the same old story again and again as the US continues to its campaign to effectively colonize the entire Middle East.

Tony Blair is not much worse than Assad, frankly he's not even comparably as bad, and the same for the Clintons. One might dislike the Blairs and the Clintons, some even for logical reasons, but you don't help form any sensible opposition to the likes of Blair by saying they're worse than Assad, instead you allow people to reasonably conclude you've somewhat lost the plot.

[rowan]

If you think Assad is worse than those who were directly complicit in the destruction of Iraq, leading to at least a million deaths, millions more wounded, tortured, raped, bereaved, dispossessed, disenfrachised and otherwise traumatized - and who were also directly complicit in the destruction of Libya and other war crimes, then you are brainwashed beyond repair. That is clearly an imperialist mentality. So does QEII generally entertain Middle Eastern war criminals at the palace, or did Assad just suddenly metamorphose into a Middle Eastern war criminal overnight, in your view? Funny how these Middle Eastern leaders do that, one after another. First they're our friends, then suddenly they're Hitler. Meanwhile our own leaders can't be faulted for butchering 8 million Muslims (unofficially upward of 10 million by now, but Americans don't do body counts on their victims, as we know), and approx. 20 million human beings worldwide since WWII.

[Digby]

If you think Assad is worse than those who were directly complicit in the destruction of Iraq, leading to at least a million deaths, millions more wounded, tortured, raped, bereaved, dispossessed, disenfrachised and otherwise traumatized - and who were also directly complicit in the destruction of Libya and other war crimes, then you are brainwashed beyond repair. That is clearly an imperialist mentality. So does QEII generally entertain Middle Eastern war criminals at the palace, or did Assad just suddenly metamorphose into a Middle Eastern war criminal overnight, in your view? Funny how these Middle Eastern leaders do that, one after another. First they're our friends, then suddenly they're Hitler. Meanwhile our own leaders can't be faulted for butchering 8 million Muslims (unofficially upward of 10 million by now, but Americans don't do body counts on their victims, as we know), and approx. 20 million human beings worldwide since WWII.

You have a point that friends (or allies) can quickly become otherwise, but that was ever true.

And you have a point that the west has added to instability in the region, however it shouldn't be overlooked that many of the deaths are more attributable to those in the middle east and can't simply see responsibility handed off to such as Britain and the USA.

And then if we look at the political opponents of such as Blair and Assad then one group looks like this



and the other group like this



Okay Britian is a far more stable country but still.

It's beyond daft to think Assad is other than far worse than any British PM for centuries, we've done some fairly disgusting things since say Walpole with such as the Amritsar massacre to the fore of our shameful actions, and we're still miles from anyone deserving a tag similar to Assad.

[rowan]

Posting victims of NATO's war crimes which were pinned on Assad now? In fact, since you didn't answer my earlier question (simple though it was), Assad was transformed into the latest Hitler-of-the-Month the moment he sent the troops out to fight the rebels NATO & Saudi were sending in from the north. These rebels had in fact turned to acts of terrorism, including those the Western media would dub 'ISIS' and thereby nominally associate with Islam.This provided the US and other NATO members with a pretext to enter Syria uninvited and kill people - including many civilians and Syrian soldiers (oh, but it was an accident, right...) The sarin gas used in the attack on Damascus around the time UN inspectors were visiting the city has been traced back to a NATO member. Indeed, that NATO member's own journalists revealed that it had been sending supplies into Syria to support the rebels (and were subsequently jailed for it, while one was the victim of an assassination attempt). The fact is, Digby, you know nothing about what is going on down here. You have an imperialist mentality which says it's okay for white folks in suits to kill 8 or 10 million Muslims, but not okay for the Syrian leader to defend his country from terrorists - and become outraged over the collateral damage, even though it is not even a drop in the ocean by comparison to the West's 'collateral damage.'

[rowan]

Meanwhile, the US has just commenced bombing ISIS-held Musul. That's kind of the same thing the Syrian army is doing in Aleppo, don't you think - except that Syria is actually defending its homeland, whereas America is defending its colony...

[cashead]

AMERIKKKA TALKED SHIT ABOUT GUY THEREFORE HE AM BE GREETEST MAN ON PLANET AND A SAINT AND A COOL GUY AND SHOULD BE GIVEN THE BONEL PIECE PRICE FOR PEAS!

Give us a fucking break, bro. In your case, it isn't so much as questioning the dominant narrative as it is doing a full sprint in the other direction.

[rowan]

Report one: The Guardian provides supportive coverage of the beginning of a full-throttle assault by Iraqi forces, backed the US and UK, on Mosul to win it back from the jihadists of ISIS – an assault that will inevitably lead to massive casualties and humanitarian suffering among the civilian population.

Report two: The Guardian provides supportive coverage of the US and UK for considering increased sanctions against Syria and Russia. On what grounds? Because Syrian forces, backed by Russia, have been waging a full-throttle assault on Aleppo to win it back from the jihadists of ISIS and Al-Qaeda – an assault that has led to massive casualties and humanitarian suffering among the civilian population.

Remember, as was prophesied: “War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength.”

http://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2016- ... ells-1984/