EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

[twitchy]

Just under 3 weeks to go.

[fivepointer]

Let's hope Itoje's hand injury is a minor one.

We can absorb the other losses, but losing Itoje would be a huge blow. He's such a massive contributor to everything.

Luckily we're not playing a vintage Sprinbok side, but these injuries are really starting to hurt us.

They are. Losing Itoje would be a significant blow as he offers a versatility that we dont have elsewhere.

[Scrumhead]

It's more than just his versatility.

Our starting XV still includes 12 or 13 Lancaster picked. Eddie and the coaching team have clearly brought a huge amount to the party off the pitch, but IMO, no other player has made such a marked, individual difference than Itoje since he broke in to the side. He's gone from a debutant to one of the first names on the team sheet.

He just looks like an absolute nightmare to play against - he's so disruptive to the lineout, maul and breakdown and has the athleticism and engine to be effective across all 80mins. He also carries well and makes good decisions with the ball.

Other players can replicate parts of that, but no-one else has his complete skill set.

The injuries will definitely be a test of how far we've come under Eddie.

[jngf]

He does seem to be playing the best since he was last paired with Launch. The funny thing is the (rather outdated) trait of the the openside having to hare off the scrum and nail the 10 would probably suit Lawes more than any other English player. Maybe the problem has been Itoje isn't big enough to play openside and we need 6'7" Lawes.

Lawes certainly is a good linkman with the backs in open play (something Haskell and Robshaw haven't done much of at test level) however, I don't think he has the workrate/engine for a test flanker either 6 or 7.

I'm also a little concerned that a back row of Billy, Itoje and Robshaw is going to be lacking in shear pace, linking with the backs and mobility about the field. Might not matter against the boks but I believe sooner or later we're going to come up against a side where will need more creativity and speed in our back row.

[Which Tyler]

Fortunately the All Blacks are still 24 months away, and our BR have already proven to be enough for anythingAus or the NH can throw at us

[Scrumhead]

Fortunately the All Blacks are still 24 months away, and our BR have already proven to be enough for anythingAus or the NH can throw at us

Yes - but Haskell was a big part of that, so it'll be up to whoever replaces him to replicate that.

I think Louw will still be out for the England game, so we'll likely be up against Mohoje and Kriel. Ironically, I'd rather we'd been facing Louw on recent form. Kriel is raw, but looks to be a handful.

I'm still confused as to what is happening with injury replacements. Even excluding Itoje for now, something like 8 or 9 of the squad Eddie named in September are going to miss the AIs, but I've heard nothing about replacements being brought in?

We've lost Clifford, Jones, Haskell and Williams in the back row alone and by my reckoning that leaves Robshaw, Harrison and Evans as the only fit, specialist flankers. Harrison is not in form or starting week-in, week-out and Evans is way too inexperienced to be a serious option. I know Eddie's spoken about using Hughes as a 6, and Beaumont can also cover there, but both are playing 8 for their clubs which isn't ideal preparation ...

Surely Eddie has to draft in some additional flankers? Personally I'd go for two from Thompson, Kvesic, Wallace or Armand, but I know Eddie's name-checked Tom Wood recently

[Peej]

Just seen Watson on the BBC NFL coverage. He's dressed like a 90s boyband popstar. Think gold chain, checked lumberjack tank top.

[fivepointer]

Dare I say Tom Wood might not be the worst possible call. He is playing pretty well in a misfiring Saints side.

Johnny May had a good game yesterday apparently. He might have come back just in time.

[Scrumhead]

I sort of agree ... Tom Wood wouldn't be my favourite choice, but his experience means he's likely to slot straight in and on current form, it's totally fair to say he's playing better than Harrison or Kvesic.

From a form point of view, Thompson and Wallace are the leading, fit, English flankers right now, but I doubt Wallace has even a ghost of a chance.

I'd be happy enough with Thompson and Wood.

[Which Tyler]

Hate to say it, but Garvey has had an absolutely storming start to the season, could partner Robshaw on the flanks with Billy at 8. Despite what Eddie has said about playing Robshaw at 7

[Oakboy]

Dare I say Tom Wood might not be the worst possible call. He is playing pretty well in a misfiring Saints side.

Johnny May had a good game yesterday apparently. He might have come back just in time.

I dread the thought of Robshaw AND Wood. If Robshaw was injured instead of Haskell it might be a realistic option perhaps.

[fivepointer]

Thompson very good off the bench today.

Both SH's played well. Eastmond very tidy.

[Timbo]

Guy Thompson looks to at least have the athleticism that Jones wants. And people may scoff but Jackson Wray is a highly capable player nowadays. Carries, tackles anc cleans out very well - also great engine and gets up in the lineout.

[Mellsblue]

I like Thompson but I wanted him in the Saxons a couple of seasons ago so might be bias. I think Wray is a Wood type player - does most things well but not test quality.

On that note, I'm having a lovely rugby centric weekend. Can we not ruin it with talk of Wood in an Eng jersey.

[Scrumhead]

Guy Thompson looks to at least have the athleticism that Jones wants. And people may scoff but Jackson Wray is a highly capable player nowadays. Carries, tackles anc cleans out very well - also great engine and gets up in the lineout.

As a temporary solution, I'm not wholly against Wray. I think he's more of a Saxons player, but he's in better form than more feted players like Kvesic or Harrison.

[fivepointer]

For Leicester yesterday Dan Cole was excellent underlying just how far he is ahead of all other English TH's.

Ben Youngs was so-so but I think thats his default setting. If we're struggling at lock Slater did his prospects no harm.

[TheNomad]

Any news on Itoje yet?

If he's out the team is now starting to look seriously compromised. If there were young talented players who could benefit from the exposure then there would be a silver lining, but in reality we're now considering picking players who you question whether or not they'll have long term test careers - so far from ideal.

[Mikey Brown]

Any news on Itoje yet?

If he's out the team is now starting to look seriously compromised. If there were young talented players who could benefit from the exposure then there would be a silver lining, but in reality we're now considering picking players who you question whether or not they'll have long term test careers - so far from ideal.

I still think Attwood can be a force off the bench, though Itoje would obviously be a loss. I wouldn't be hugely unhappy with 4. Launch 5. Lawes 6. Robshaw 7. Thompson 8. Vunipola 19. Attwood 20. Morgan for example.

[jngf]

I dread the thought of Robshaw AND Wood. If Robshaw was injured instead of Haskell it might be a realistic option perhaps.

As indeed do I ! but do agree too that were Robshaw injured Wood offers a similar, grafting big engined component to the back row.
What we need at the moment however is an out and out flier and fetcher, with the capacity to act as a linkman/extra three quarter where
required - which would balance nicely with the graft and workrate of Robshaw and the ball carrying of Billy.

We will need to unearth such a player if England are going to develop a winning "all court game".

[Mikey Brown]

I guess if one appears that can stay fit and fits the game-plan then we'll give it a go. I don't mean to get on your case all the time, I just find it utterly fascinating. It's admirable, the amount of time and effort you give to protect the sanctity of the 'traditional openside'. Does somebody pay you for it?

[Mellsblue]

Any news on Itoje yet?

If he's out the team is now starting to look seriously compromised. If there were young talented players who could benefit from the exposure then there would be a silver lining, but in reality we're now considering picking players who you question whether or not they'll have long term test careers - so far from ideal.

All true.

I think Ewels is looking good for Bath, if not quite ready for test rugby. Might he be worth risking on the bench. Otherwise, I'd be looking at Kitchener, and Slater if he backs up yesterday's performance. Neither are particularly young but do we need them to be as Itoje, Kris, Launch and Lawes all have years ahead of them. Regardless of injuries I think Kitchener has all the tools to be a test lock for........and he's called Graham.

[jngf]

I guess if one appears that can stay fit and fits the game-plan then we'll give it a go. I don't mean to get on your case all the time, I just find it utterly fascinating. It's admirable, the amount of time and effort you give to protect the sanctity of the 'traditional openside'. Does somebody pay you for it?

No I'm just convinced England play at their best with that style of openside...as you know.

[Digby]

.and he's called Graham.

Not actually as reliable a method as some looking at English sporting stars, Le Saux, Hick, Thorpe, Swann, Onions, Gooch, Dawe, Rowntree

[fivepointer]

England forward Maro Itoje has been ruled out of the autumn internationals after fracturing a hand in Saracens' Champions Cup win over Scarlets.

The lock, 21, will require surgery on his right hand and is expected to be out of action for six weeks.


What we were fearing. EJ does have a bit of a headache with his back 5 selection for the autumn matches.

[Mellsblue]

.and he's called Graham.

Not actually as reliable a method as some looking at English sporting stars, Le Saux, Hick, Thorpe, Swann, Onions, Gooch, Dawe, Rowntree

All true but those surnames are not that of a famous war hero.