Match thread: Wales vs France

[UKHamlet]

Wales defence is quite amazing, but they've not kicked on in their ability to attack… They don't look like a side who would have scored against 13 Australians in the RWC.

That doesn't mean they won't spank us mind. Just unsure what Gatland & co are spending time doing

Wales really need a playmaker somewhere in the 10/12/13 triangle. The current three are big, powerful, comitted etc. but limited in invention and nobody is pulling the strings. Is there such a player in Wales at present?

There are a few, but they're nowhere near the Welsh squad. Still, we're winning, or more to the point, not losing. England are the only other team who can say that this year, and you have them tomorrow evening. Good luck.

[Hooky]

Wales defence is quite amazing, but they've not kicked on in their ability to attack… They don't look like a side who would have scored against 13 Australians in the RWC.

That doesn't mean they won't spank us mind. Just unsure what Gatland & co are spending time doing

Wales really need a playmaker somewhere in the 10/12/13 triangle. The current three are big, powerful, comitted etc. but limited in invention and nobody is pulling the strings. Is there such a player in Wales at present?

Well, whisper it but potentially that man is Priestland. Problem is he has no bottle.

[glamorganmorgan]

we won, but ......did we really? i did feel like falling asleep. I do want creativity, but the game was so defensive.yes i am pleased but we are still underperforming

[Spiffy]

Wales defence is quite amazing, but they've not kicked on in their ability to attack… They don't look like a side who would have scored against 13 Australians in the RWC.

That doesn't mean they won't spank us mind. Just unsure what Gatland & co are spending time doing

Wales really need a playmaker somewhere in the 10/12/13 triangle. The current three are big, powerful, comitted etc. but limited in invention and nobody is pulling the strings. Is there such a player in Wales at present?

There are a few, but they're nowhere near the Welsh squad. Still, we're winning, or more to the point, not losing. England are the only other team who can say that this year, and you have them tomorrow evening. Good luck.

We will have them!

[Sandydragon]

Bloody Nora, we just beat France by two scores, and I feel flatter than yesterday's lager.

What a shower of shyte. France were unbelievably bad, and we just strolled over the line. Yet again we let a convincing margin slip in the last minute, which could still cost us the whole thing. It's ridiculous to feel so negative after a good win but if ever there was a case of the win being everything, that was it.

It's a long time since I felt jubilant after a Wales win. It's usually relieved.

Here you go. This is our best performance in a decade. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/21778425

Gawd, that feels like a long time ago. And even that was more bludgeon than rapier. It did feel good to finally bully England the way they had always done to us, though.

I know there's no space any more. I know the game favours defence. And above all, I know that scoring more points than the other guy, is success. But let's be honest, it's not much fun, is it? 19-3 up against France; I should be waving my beer and singing. Instead, I'm the miserable old fucker in the corner of the pub droning on about Phil Fucking Bennett, and I really don't want to be him.

But then I look at SH teams, or even Llanelli, and think, why can't our national team be a bit more expansive. Fear of failure seems to be crippling the game.

[Sandydragon]

Wales defence is quite amazing, but they've not kicked on in their ability to attack… They don't look like a side who would have scored against 13 Australians in the RWC.

That doesn't mean they won't spank us mind. Just unsure what Gatland & co are spending time doing

Wales really need a playmaker somewhere in the 10/12/13 triangle. The current three are big, powerful, comitted etc. but limited in invention and nobody is pulling the strings. Is there such a player in Wales at present?

Well, whisper it but potentially that man is Priestland. Problem is he has no bottle.

Yup. And yup.

[oldbackrow]

I love it when the Saes get cocky. It makes shitting on their party table so much more fun.

Ermmmm talking of cocky!
https://www.facebook.com/BBCWalesSport/?fref=nf

Love the reference to George Norths "fancy footwork"!

[Len]

Glad I didn't waste my time with that.

[Son of Mathonwy]

It's a long time since I felt jubilant after a Wales win. It's usually relieved.

Here you go. This is our best performance in a decade. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/21778425

Gawd, that feels like a long time ago. And even that was more bludgeon than rapier. It did feel good to finally bully England the way they had always done to us, though.

I know there's no space any more. I know the game favours defence. And above all, I know that scoring more points than the other guy, is success. But let's be honest, it's not much fun, is it? 19-3 up against France; I should be waving my beer and singing. Instead, I'm the miserable old fucker in the corner of the pub droning on about Phil Fucking Bennett, and I really don't want to be him.

But then I look at SH teams, or even Llanelli, and think, why can't our national team be a bit more expansive. Fear of failure seems to be crippling the game.

One man is responsible for this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35674371

Gatland said: "I thought it was brilliant. It's what Test rugby is all about.

Thank you, Warren Gatland.

Why can't we beat SH teams? See tonight's match for a comprehensive explanation.....

[Son of Mathonwy]

Wales defence is quite amazing, but they've not kicked on in their ability to attack… They don't look like a side who would have scored against 13 Australians in the RWC.

That doesn't mean they won't spank us mind. Just unsure what Gatland & co are spending time doing

Wales really need a playmaker somewhere in the 10/12/13 triangle. The current three are big, powerful, comitted etc. but limited in invention and nobody is pulling the strings. Is there such a player in Wales at present?

There are a few, but they're nowhere near the Welsh squad. Still, we're winning, or more to the point, not losing. England are the only other team who can say that this year, and you have them tomorrow evening. Good luck.

And they're not going to get near it under Gatland. Hopefully they'll still be youngish when we finally get shot of him.

[Billyfish]

France made mistakes, we seemed unable to take advantage

France Ireland was virtually unwatchable too, I wonder if France are the common denominator. Plus Barnes getting back to his pernikity best.

Seem to lack confidence in attack more than anything else, even when we do spot the opportunity. Gareth Davies was praps our best attacking back but also worst at having brain freeze and kicking away attacking ball uselessly.

Still, we're winning whilst playing shit. Which is good.

[Banquo]

well I reckon you have a very solid platform to build on, tbh. The basics are well in place- scrum was excellent, lineout solid, excellent kick chase, excellent fielding the kicks, and an outstanding defence. Yes France were desperately bad (and badly organised), but a big chunk was linespeed of the defence.

The question is how does Gatland move it on a bit; you could see signs of using offloads and pick and go in the forwards to get behind the defence, and that generally created some space and got yards and quick ball....it was what happened next that was less than inspired, unless the 9 was in a bit of space. I really liked the way your front row went in the loose too.

For all the talk of 'creativity' in the midfield- define that, btw- they are a very good trio- think if Davies used his boot a bit less, and the back three were used more intelligently, that'd do the job. I think Halfpenny's rugby brain would help a lot, and a more rounded player to compliment North on the opposite wing would make the back three more of a threat, and that in turn would help Roberts and Davies who are both top notch. The 'screen' plays looked effective to me, and when Roberts did pass, there was a lot of space- and that's what needs to be used.

(looking at the stats, both sides kicked a awful lot)

[Donny osmond]

well I reckon you have a very solid platform to build on, tbh. The basics are well in place- scrum was excellent, lineout solid, excellent kick chase, excellent fielding the kicks, and an outstanding defence. Yes France were desperately bad (and badly organised), but a big chunk was linespeed of the defence.

The question is how does Gatland move it on a bit; you could see signs of using offloads and pick and go in the forwards to get behind the defence, and that generally created some space and got yards and quick ball....it was what happened next that was less than inspired, unless the 9 was in a bit of space. I really liked the way your front row went in the loose too.

For all the talk of 'creativity' in the midfield- define that, btw- they are a very good trio- think if Davies used his boot a bit less, and the back three were used more intelligently, that'd do the job. I think Halfpenny's rugby brain would help a lot, and a more rounded player to compliment North on the opposite wing would make the back three more of a threat, and that in turn would help Roberts and Davies who are both top notch. The 'screen' plays looked effective to me, and when Roberts did pass, there was a lot of space- and that's what needs to be used.

(looking at the stats, both sides kicked a awful lot)

Pretty much this. Your players are hugely talented, it just seems to me to be a question of getting a game plan in place that allows them to shine. Whether that comes from 9-10-12 axis or what I don't know.

I can appreciate the frustration with garlands game plan, but the flip side is that his players are coached into the right mental space well enough that they bring their "a" games 9 times out of 10. It wasn't that long ago that Wales was known as being mentally flaky, but gatland certainly seems to have put a stop to that. Maybe he need to recognize that now he's got their confidence high he needs to loosen the reins a bit to give them some freedom on the pitch?

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[Son of Mathonwy]

I could be accused of being a little hard on Gatland. After all we've beaten France 5 times in a row now and never looked like losing this one. Our defence is excellent (except in the last 10 minutes where we'll let anyone score a try).

But we need to be more creative and aggressive in attack, take a few more risks. I know this will lead to more errors and turnovers, but if we don't we'll never beat the best teams. And matches with decent opposition will be a toss of a coin, like Ireland and I suspect our next match with England too.

I think this could largely be done with the same team.... maybe Biggar might struggle with it though. And it would be helpful if one of our centres was creative.... perhaps a new 13 is needed (coz Roberts is titanic at the moment, he can't possibly be changed).

[Son of Mathonwy]

And what has Gatland's game plan actually delivered for Wales, when they play opposition that isn't bottom-of-the-barrel shit?

Defence: 10/10
Attack: 3/10

Gatland's greatest achievement is that we don't lose to bottom-of-the-barrel shit anymore*. But we rightly aspire to more than this and Gatland can't deliver it. In fact, he doesn't even see that there's a problem.

* except when we dress our A team up as Wales and send then to Japan with McBryde in charge.

[Billyfish]

And what has Gatland's game plan actually delivered for Wales, when they play opposition that isn't bottom-of-the-barrel shit?

Beating everyone with some regularity apart from the SH three?

[Billyfish]

Re our attack, we didn't finish off a number of opportunities we had, we were creative enough to get those opportunities but dropped a bollock or got turned over - lost concentration. At the same time, it's not like anyone was particularly awful. I ponder on whether a couple more tries would have put enough of a sheen on that to make it acceptable.

[Sourdust]

Gatland is the New Labour of Welsh rugby: He convinced us of the need for pragmatism to establish a platform for progress, but when that was achieved, it turned out that pragmatism was all he was capable of, and all he'd ever wanted.

I'd be waving placards if I thought there was a decent alternative. But I still don't see one.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Re our attack, we didn't finish off a number of opportunities we had, we were creative enough to get those opportunities but dropped a bollock or got turned over - lost concentration. At the same time, it's not like anyone was particularly awful. I ponder on whether a couple more tries would have put enough of a sheen on that to make it acceptable.

We're always going make mistakes, or not get the bounce we need, or whatever. Not every chance will get converted, that's why we need to make more chances.

Another 2 tries would have been great of course. If we could regularly beat France 33 - 10 we'd be better than we currently are.

[oldbackrow]

isn't your defence more down to Edwards rather than Gatland?

[Son of Mathonwy]

isn't your defence more down to Edwards rather than Gatland?

Yes, and this is probably why we won the 6N in 2013 when Gatland was with the Lions.

[kk67]

Did Jiffy just tell someone to calm down?

The interplay between Mooro and Jiffy was a bit odd throughout the game. They seemed to be getting as frustrated as the players. Eddie Butler was the most coherent of them. He,...had quite a good game.
When Melon arrived he was instantly in on 4/5 tackles over a long series of phases. Eddie was impressed. After that each time Jenkins made another important tackle, Eddie just sighs 'Jenkins again'.

Just one of those frustrating games. Tempting to blame Barnes but having watched the game again (as live, at 4am).... that just doesn't wash. His game management was good, the players were doing their best to stay legal. There's not much doubt in my mind that the majority of the blame goes to France.
Having missed the Fra v Ire game I now understand what Dean Ryan meant when he said 'Ive never before seen such a talented group of individuals play so badly'. Looking back on it,.....they were very fortunate they got Italy at the start of the tournament.

This Wales side looks very assured. Unlike years gone past I'm no longer perpetually convinced they're liable to throw it all away at any given moment. Down side of that is they no longer look likely to let rip at any given moment.

[Len]

And what has Gatland's game plan actually delivered for Wales, when they play opposition that isn't bottom-of-the-barrel shit?

Beating everyone with some regularity apart from the SH three?

Exactly!

[wayneha50]

we are dull, one-dimensional, umimaginative - & obsessed with kicking ball away regardless of where we are on the pitch or what the situation is - Jon & Gareth Davies being two of the worst culprits

we are creating less & less with each game & do not really look like taking what few chances we do have

incredibly frustrating & boring to watch

[Len]

And what has Gatland's game plan actually delivered for Wales, when they play opposition that isn't bottom-of-the-barrel shit?

I wouldn't say the 6N teams are bottom of the barrell shit. Wales are the best of a bad bunch. If we played any of them tomorrow it wouldn't be a push over but I'd expect us to win well. If Wales play like this on tour we'll thrash them at least once.