Statistic of the Day

[J Dory]

By popular request:

Foreign-born, "English" players* this year:
Four New Zealanders - Hartley, Harrison, Te'o and M. Vunipola
Two Fijians: Rokoduguni and Hughes
One Aussie: B. Vunipola
One St Lucian: Yarde

8/34=23.5%


*By which I mean players named in the EPS for this year (Source: Wikipedia)

Disgraceful.

[Which Tyler]

Of the 14 teams that competed in the 2013 RLWC, 72% of the players were from England or Australia including whole teams (bar Eng and Aus) in some cases.
None of the current Scotland RL team in the current tournament are Scottish (apparently).

[Lizard]

Please do not sully my thread with the criminal code.

[rowan]

Of the 14 teams that competed in the 2013 RLWC, 72% of the players were from England or Australia including whole teams (bar Eng and Aus) in some cases.
None of the current Scotland RL team in the current tournament are Scottish (apparently).

Was the Lebanese team of Sydney kebab shop-owners there again??

[rowan]

The Boks are keeping us busy with this one.

Of the 4 World Cup-winning nations, we find New Zealand has still lost to the least amount of opposing national teams (6), England just two more with 8, South Africa dropped to third last year with 9, and Australia is a distant 4th with 11. Also, only 4 nations, SA, Australia, England & France have ever beaten the All Blacks in NZ.

NZ has lost to: Australia 42 times, SA 35, France 12, England 7, Wales 3 & Ireland once.
England has lost to Wales 57 times, Ireland 47, Scotland 42, France 39, NZ 32, Australia 25, SA 23 and Argentina 4 times.
SA has lost to NZ 55 times, Australia 36, England 12, France 11, Ireland 6, Scotland 5, Wales & Argentina twice each, & Japan once.
Australia has lost to NZ 109 times, SA 46, England 21, France 18, Wales & Ireland 10 each, Scotland 9, Argentina 5, Fiji twice & Samoa and Tonga once apiece.

South Africa has now lost to 10 (prior to last year they had never lost to a team outside of the 8 foundation members of the IRB), with today's defeat by Italy...

It was Italy's first ever win against a former RWC-winner.

[rowan]

First wins v. South Africa by nation:

New Zealand 1921
Australia 1933
France 1958
Ireland 1965
Scotland 1965
England 1969
Wales 1999
Argentina 2015
Japan 2015
Italy 2016

So this might be their worst period, relatively speaking, since the mid 60s when they suffered first-up losses to Ireland & Scotland, while also going down to France for a second time, and losing away series' to Australia 0-2 and NZ 1-3. They bounced back from that, however. Can they do so again?

[rowan]

This from a friend of mine who is involved with Canadian rugby:

"10 countries (9 ranked in the top 10 men's world ratings) have 3 votes each for a total of 30 out of 43 votes representing 70% of the voting power . These same 10 counties also have 9 members on the World Rugby executive committee.
The total rugby players in these 10 counties according to World Rugby published figures is 4,245,715 players (England having 2,057,797 of that total which equates to 35% of all total global rugby playing population) out of a total 7,230,391 which in turn represents 59% of the total .
There are 1,766,000 female rugby players globally representing a 25% of the total.
All 32 voting members World Rugby Council listed on their web page and the 10 executive board members are male.
30% of of players in the last men's Rugby World Cup were of Island extraction yet they have no voting power on the World Rugby board.The All Blacks World Cup squad of 31 alone has nine players (Waisake Naholo, Julian Savea, Malakai Fekitoa, Sonny Bill Williams, Ma’a Nonu, Victor Vito, Jerome Kaino, Keven Mealamu, Charlie Faumuina) who have Polynesian roots.
25% of all rugby players gonbally are female yet they have no voting members ( total of 43 votes) on the World Rugby board.
Looking into the history of the members of the World Rugby council there does not appear to by many with a rugby 7's background.
World Rugby Men's Rankings - # Of Registered Players - # of total players - (# Of Votes On World Rugby Board Of A Total Of 43 ) - *# Of Members on World Rugby Executive Council
-------------------------------------
1 New Zealand - 148,483 - 148,483 - (3) - *1
2 England - 340,347 - 2,057,797 - (3) - *1
3 Australia - 230,663 - 615,809 - (3) - *2
4 South Africa - 342,316 - 418,501 - (3) - 0
5 Wales - 73,444 - 73,444 - (3) - *1
6 Ireland - 96,880 - 172,491 - (3) - *1
7 Scotland - 49,305 - 164,231 - (3) -*1
8 Argentina - 56,998 - 133,062 - (3) - *1
9 France - 291,202 - 383,757 - (3) - *1
10 Georgia - 7,313 - 7394 - (1)
11 Fiji - 65,980 - 148,843 - (0)
12 Japan - 107,673 - 115,223 - (1)
13 Italy - 82,143 - 82,143 - (3)
14 Samoa - 20,845 - 20,845 - (0)
15 Tonga - 13,968 - 43,366 - (0)
16 United States - 110,185 - 1,449,389 - (1) - *1
17 Romania - 7,605 - 14,525 - (1)
18 Canada - 26,883 - 132,469 - (1)
19 Namibia - 11,610 - 11,850 - 0)
20 Uraguay - 6,085 - 92,069 - (0)
21 Russia - 23,800 - 31,398 - (0)
23 Spain - 30,531 - 53,687 - (0)
34 Zimbabwe - 22, 685 - 33,935 - (0)
45 Madagascar - 22,450 - 27.822 - (0)
48 Malaysia - 50,103 -55,103 - (0)
49 Sri Lanka - 47,071- 74,099 - (0)"

[rowan]

Kiss me if I'm wrong, but haven't Georgia now gone 5 straight games against Pacific Island opposition without defeat, including their actual tour of the Pacific Islands earlier this year when they beat Fiji & Tonga and drew with Samoa? I think a few of the tier 1 nations would struggle to match that...

[Lizard]

Kiss me if I'm wrong, but haven't Georgia now gone 5 straight games against Pacific Island opposition without defeat, including their actual tour of the Pacific Islands earlier this year when they beat Fiji & Tonga and drew with Samoa? I think a few of the tier 1 nations would struggle to match that...

Ok, let's do this...

Records* v Fiji, Tonga, Samoa & PIRA
New Zealand: Played 17, won 17, 100% (1987-2015)
England: Played 17, won 17, 100% (1988-2016)
South Africa: Played 15, won 15, 100% (1995-2015)
Ireland: Played 12, won 11, lost 1, 91.7% (1987-2013), longest undefeated streak 8* (2001-)
France: Played 19, won 17, lost 2, 89.5% (1964-2016), longest streak 8 (1999-2010)
Australia: Played 30, won 25, lost 4, drawn 1, 85% (1952-2015), longest streak 18 (1976-2010)
Scotland: Played 21, won 17, lost 3, drawn 1, 83.3% (1985-2015), longest streak 12 (1999-2012)
Wales: Played 28, won 22, lost 5, drawn 1, 80.4% (1952-2015), longest streak 6 (1985-88 & 2000-2006)
Georgia: Played 11, won 6, lost 4, drawn 1, 59.1% (1952-2015), longest streak 3 (2016)
Argentina: Played 9, won 5, lost 4, 55.6% (1980-2015), longest streak 2 (1980 & 1999-2003)
Romania: Played 6, won 3, lost 3, 50% (1989-2015), longest streak 2 (1989-91)
Italy: Played 21, won 10, lost 11, 47.6% (1987-2014), longest streak 3 (2003-05 & 2009-12)
Canada: Played 23, won 8, lost 15, 34.8% (1970-2015), longest streak 3 (1987-95)
Japan: Played 47, won 14, lost 33, 29.8% (1990-2015), longest streak 2 (several times)
USA: Played 20, won 2, lost 18, 10% (1998-2016), longest streak 2 (1998)
Namibia: Played 6, lost 6, 0% (1997-2015)

You would have to say that Georgia is ranked about where you would expect. Argentina sit a little lower than you might expect although that is an artifact of them playing the Island teams from an earlier time when they were not as strong as they are now. Only Georgia includes a draw in its longest undefeated streak.

*Minimum of 6 tests, RWC qualifiers only

[rowan]

So Georgia is the best of World Rugby's non-foundation member unions, and also ahead of two current first tier nations. But we still can't get a tier 1 nation to go to Georgia and play them. Thanks, Lizard. Most edifying...

[Lizard]

It's a shame Tbilisi doesn't have a riviera and a few Michelin stars.

Playing Scotland in the November window is a good step but you're right. They've earned it.

[zer0]

2016 Ireland are the first NH team since 2003 England to defeat each of Australia, New Zealand and South Africa in a calendar year.

[rowan]

Regrettably it became glaringly obvious this weekend that the Rugby Championship teams and also Japan were past their use-by date for the season. These tours are good for the coffers but that's about all. Two years ago pretty much the same happened, with Australia losing three games on tour & SA 2, while NZ struggled in a couple. There was the usual talk about the tables being turned and the gap being closed, and even bold forecasts of an England v Ireland World Cup final. But in the event it was an all-Southern Hemisphere semis, and that's what fans will remember in a decade's time; not the Autumn tours. This isn't sour grapes. It's just keeping things in perspective.

[Adder]

Same thing can be said about the summer tour. France usualy sends a B team to those.

Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

[rowan]

I've never denied that. I guess the effects just aren't as remarkable because we're used to seeing Southern Hemisphere teams roll their northern counterparts. There was a time, back in the nineties, when 5 Nations teams were being criticized for not taking the spring tours seriously enough and getting hammered by cricket scores. Since then they've appeared to take them more seriously. & of course, for the northerners it's a huge challenge and a crucial learning experience. You only develop by playing teams which are stronger than you. So, with all due respect, the Southern Hemsiphere doesn't receive quite the same benefit from their Autumn tours - even though England at Twickers has always been a pretty tough assignment.

[Lizard]

It has been an interesting set of results. I wouldn't suggest that the touring sides haven't taken it seriously. NZ was defending a record winning streak and quite severely embarrassed themselves by being the first All Blacks to lose to Ireland. Aussie have duffed a grand slam that would have gone a long way toward erasing the shame of their home series loss v England and mediocre RC. South Africa are fucking shambles but I'm sure their fans are livid at losing not only to a desperately uninspiring Wales but to an Italy that couldn't even contain Tonga.

[rowan]

No denying that either, but the major underlying factor is very clear. It's been a long, gruelling season and at the end of the day there is nothing tangible riding on the AIs. Meanwhile, the Pumas have already stated fatigue has been a factor for them on tour.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

No denying that either, but the major underlying factor is very clear. It's been a long, gruelling season and at the end of the day there is nothing tangible riding on the AIs. Meanwhile, the Pumas have already stated fatigue has been a factor for them on tour.

The SH season is neither particularly long nor gruelling. Lumping in the Japanese with that as an excuse exposes it as entirely hollow.

[rowan]

No denying that either, but the major underlying factor is very clear. It's been a long, gruelling season and at the end of the day there is nothing tangible riding on the AIs. Meanwhile, the Pumas have already stated fatigue has been a factor for them on tour.

The SH season is neither particularly long nor gruelling. Lumping in the Japanese with that as an excuse exposes it as entirely hollow.

What a foolish comment to make. Of course the Southern Hemsiphere season is long and gruelling. Super Rugby involves 16 rounds - plus three rounds of playoffs - at roughly the same level as the 6 Nations. The Rugby Championship is something else again. The last World Cup should have given you some indication of just how tough it is. & they play two rounds, which actually means one more game than the 6 Nations per team - and there are no 'Italy's to take a soft landing on either. & then you've got to look at how much travelling this entails. As for Japan, that's hardly integral to the issue, but I had the misfortune of watching them yesterday and it was the worst Japanese performance I've seen in a very long time. So I'm suggesting it had something to do with their schedule this year as well, but I'm not really any expert on Japanese rugby; perhaps they just went through a time warp back to the 90s or someting But dismissing the fatigue factor of the AIs is merely to display one's ignorance of the broader issue. As mentioned, one of the teams has already stated this was a factor themselves, the stats back it up completely, and I'm sure they're in a slightly better position to judge this than either you or I are.

[J Dory]

I think these Autumn games have shown there is not as big a gap between the NH and SH sides as there perhaps was in 2015. Ireland and England in particular look sharp, France would also appear to be on the rise. Good stuff, looking forward to an entertaining Six Nations with some quality rugby on display.

[rowan]

That might be a wind-up, but it's precisely the kind of comment Northern Hemisphere fans, scribes and pundits have been making for about as long as I've been following rugby (40 or so years), at every opportunity, but when it comes to the crunch the gap only seems to be getting wider. It's 7 World Cups to 1. The last semi-finals featured 4 Southern Hemisphere teams. England won the tournament in 2003 and everyone in the Northern Hemisphere claimed the tables had turned and the best teams were in Europe - completely ignoring their collective failings against the All Blacks in particular. But, guess what, the Southern Hemisphere has won the last three World Cups, to add to the first three, and last year finished 1st, 2nd, 3rd & 4th - in Europe!! It doesn't get any more comprehensive that that. Needless to add, a European team hasn't topped the rankings during that time either. But every Autumn the sacrifice is made to the almighty golden cash cow, wearied bodies are marched north, and we get this nonsense again. An Ireland v England World Cup final, they said . The Aussies had no scrum, they said . The Boks were falling apart due to political interference, they said...

[J Dory]

No wind up, England, Ireland and France are playing good rugby. With the exception of Ireland, they weren't in 2015. Ebs and flows.

[Doorzetbornandbred]

No wind up, England, Ireland and France are playing good rugby. With the exception of Ireland, they weren't in 2015. Ebs and flows.

I think if England played the AB's next weekend they'd win. This time next year who knows? Jones has England strutting round like the "arrogant" England of old, they're far from the finished product mind. AB's are still top dogs but England and Ireland are catching them up at the moment. Next few years are gonna be interesting times in rugby.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

No wind up, England, Ireland and France are playing good rugby. With the exception of Ireland, they weren't in 2015. Ebs and flows.

I think if England played the AB's next weekend they'd win. This time next year who knows? Jones has England strutting round like the "arrogant" England of old, they're far from the finished product mind. AB's are still top dogs but England and Ireland are catching them up at the moment. Next few years are gonna be interesting times in rugby.

If the ABs were stupid enough to play an 8th Test in 10 weeks then they might well. Mind England have a limit to the number of games they can play in a row as well so who knows.

[rowan]

"I think if England played the AB's next weekend they'd win."

Sure, the NH wins everything on paper. But when it comes to the World Cup, well . . .

Aren't the Lions touring NZ next year? Given the Lions have won precisely 6 of their 38 encounters with the All Blacks down the ages, I think there'll be an almighty rude awakening for the Auturmn tour dreamers on board in 2017 (just as there was last year).