Anti-Russian rhetoric

[Digby]

A army? Oh dear.

[OptimisticJock]

It was maybe this one.

[WaspInWales]

Nice recovery!

[OptimisticJock]

Thanks. You do realise I didn't create it though aye?

[Digby]

Thanks. You do realise I didn't create it though aye?

Yes. At least I'd have been surprised had you created it

[WaspInWales]

Thanks. You do realise I didn't create it though aye?

Of course, I was commending your ability to find an appropriate meme for the occasion.

Well done Jock

[OptimisticJock]

OK ok as you were lads.

[rowan]

Good summary of events and unbalanced news reporting here:

For the past few weeks, British news-papers have been informing their readers about two contrasting battles in the killing grounds of the Middle East. One is Mosul, in northern Iraq, where western reporters are accompanying an army of liberation as it frees a joyful population from terrorist control. The other concerns Aleppo, just a few hundred miles to the west. This, apparently, is the exact opposite. Here, a murderous dictator, hellbent on destruction, is waging war on his own people.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/your ... ut-aleppo/

[rowan]

This really has reached fever pitch since Russia defeated the terrorists in Aleppo and thereby foiled Nato designs on another regime change in the region. It has been quite amazing to see how brainwashed many Westerners were, that they actually backed terrorist-aligned, civilian hostage-holding, so-called 'rebels' and screamed blue murder over the unavoidable collateral damage during the long and arduous liberation campaign. Maintream media duly chimed in with ridiculous accusations of genocide and a barrage of videos and photographs on internet and television claiming to depict victims, but were actually of the rebels own victims and also Palestinian victims of Israeli war crimes, and not from the liberation efforts at all. & the Western media almost completely ignored overwhelming evidence of rebel/terrorist war crimes against civilians in the aftermath, including mass graves, just as they ignored the jubilant celebrations of the liberated survivors. Meanwhile, casualties of American-led wars in the region during the past few decades are estimated to have reached 8 figures, but barely a murmur from the West and multitudes continue to fawn over the architects of this because they have nice daughters. That's the epitome of a dumbed-down, superficial, brainwashed society.

[rowan]

Corbyn hits out at NATO expansion into Eastern Europe:

It's not just the right-wing Donald Trump who is being bullied into toeing the "War Party's" line on Russia. In Britain, exactly the same thing is happening to the left-wing Jeremy Corbyn.

The Labour leader, quite sensibly, has criticized the provocative NATO military build-up on Russia's borders and has called for a de-escalation of tension between the West and Russia. Which sane person (whose salary isn't dependent on promoting a non-existent "Russian threat"), doesn't want that? Corbyn — who, unlike his critics, strongly opposed the disastrous and illegal Iraq war and the Western military assault against Libya which turned that country into a haven for radical terror groups — should be applauded for his efforts to improve East-West relations. Instead, he's being attacked by the endless war hawks.

Read more: https://sputniknews.com/columnists/2017 ... expansion/

[fivepointer]

Sputnik, hardly an unbiased news source, is it?

I wouldn't take anything Corbyn says about anything that seriously. Is he really suggesting NATO pull out of Estonia and Poland, and that the Russians completely demilitarise Kaliningrad?

[Sandydragon]

Sputnik, hardly an unbiased news source, is it?

I wouldn't take anything Corbyn says about anything that seriously. Is he really suggesting NATO pull out of Estonia and Poland, and that the Russians completely demilitarise Kaliningrad?

Kremlin funded, so the polar opposite of unbiased. If putins propaganda machine is questioning the validity of NATO presence in the Baltic states, those countries will be very worried.

[Sandydragon]

This really has reached fever pitch since Russia defeated the terrorists in Aleppo and thereby foiled Nato designs on another regime change in the region. It has been quite amazing to see how brainwashed many Westerners were, that they actually backed terrorist-aligned, civilian hostage-holding, so-called 'rebels' and screamed blue murder over the unavoidable collateral damage during the long and arduous liberation campaign. Maintream media duly chimed in with ridiculous accusations of genocide and a barrage of videos and photographs on internet and television claiming to depict victims, but were actually of the rebels own victims and also Palestinian victims of Israeli war crimes, and not from the liberation efforts at all. & the Western media almost completely ignored overwhelming evidence of rebel/terrorist war crimes against civilians in the aftermath, including mass graves, just as they ignored the jubilant celebrations of the liberated survivors. Meanwhile, casualties of American-led wars in the region during the past few decades are estimated to have reached 8 figures, but barely a murmur from the West and multitudes continue to fawn over the architects of this because they have nice daughters. That's the epitome of a dumbed-down, superficial, brainwashed society.

Any sane person, including the UN who are investigating, can see that the Assad regime has committed war crimes in Aleppo. Trying to paint the rest of us as brainwashed is a bit pathetic to be frank.

[morepork]

This really has reached fever pitch since Russia defeated the terrorists in Aleppo and thereby foiled Nato designs on another regime change in the region. It has been quite amazing to see how brainwashed many Westerners were, that they actually backed terrorist-aligned, civilian hostage-holding, so-called 'rebels' and screamed blue murder over the unavoidable collateral damage during the long and arduous liberation campaign. Maintream media duly chimed in with ridiculous accusations of genocide and a barrage of videos and photographs on internet and television claiming to depict victims, but were actually of the rebels own victims and also Palestinian victims of Israeli war crimes, and not from the liberation efforts at all. & the Western media almost completely ignored overwhelming evidence of rebel/terrorist war crimes against civilians in the aftermath, including mass graves, just as they ignored the jubilant celebrations of the liberated survivors. Meanwhile, casualties of American-led wars in the region during the past few decades are estimated to have reached 8 figures, but barely a murmur from the West and multitudes continue to fawn over the architects of this because they have nice daughters. That's the epitome of a dumbed-down, superficial, brainwashed society.

Any sane person, including the UN who are investigating, can see that the Assad regime has committed war crimes in Aleppo. Trying to paint the rest of us as brainwashed is a bit pathetic to be frank.

I acknowledge the point, but again, why is the jolly in Iraq not up for the same degree of scrutiny? The whole Iraq jolly appears, unfortunately, illegal. It can't be brushed under the carpet. How is it possible for an entity like the UN to function in the face of such profound double standards?

[rowan]

Of course Westerners are brainwashed, Sandywagon. The conflict in Syria is a proxy war imposed by external forces - ie NATO and their allies in the region - with use of terrorists in a nation which was previously relatively peaceful, and for no other reason than the leadership remained independent of Washington's control, and thus it had to be destroyed, like Iraq and Libya before it, resulting in hundreds of thousands of deaths, and hundreds of thousands more wounded, bereaved, orphaned, displaced and otherwise traumatized; and withal a refugee tidal wave resulting in countless more deaths and suffering. But the focus in the Western media has been on the supposed war crimes of the Syrian leadership and the army (which has remained loyal to it - tellingly) in its attempts to destroy those terrorists. Any leader in any country in the world would have done the same thing. America has committed war crimes against its own people, in fact. Perhaps you've heard of the MOVE & WACO bombings, just as a couple of examples. & that's to say nothing of the millions America has slaughtered in its wars abroad. But you want to focus on the leadership of a country under siege, even though various accusations have been proved false. The chemical weapons used in Damascus around the time of a UN inspection were eventually traced back to a NATO member. & many lies were told about the liberation of Aleppo, of course, because that totally humiliated the US, which had even violated a truce by bombing Syrian troops - killing 80 men (who presumably had families & loves ones - you know, wives, girlsfriends, kids, mothers and all that), and were not just a statistic to be buried somewhere in the newspapers. America wasn't even invited to operate in Syria in the first place, was therefore operating illegally and committed a war crime. Its fighter pilots are continuing to harrass their Russian counterparts in Syrian air space as we speak! But the fact that you only seem interested in what you think the Syrian leadership has done is simply helping to prove my point that many Westerners are brainwashed.

[kk67]

Any sane person, including the UN who are investigating, can see that the Assad regime has committed war crimes in Aleppo. Trying to paint the rest of us as brainwashed is a bit pathetic to be frank.

As pathetic as calling NATO obsolete..?.

[fivepointer]

"Its fighter pilots are continuing to harrass their Russian counterparts in Syrian air space as we speak! "

Your source for this claim?

Calling people who take a contrary view to you as brainwashed isn't terribly helpful. Most of us can take a balanced view of the world and arrive at positions based on what we hear and see. You would have to be incredibly one eyed not to see that the USA and its allies haven't always acted honourably, or with the best intentions. Similarly it shouldn't be too hard to see that Russia have their own agenda and are a long way from being a paragon of freedom and democracy. It's also pretty clear that the Syrians have engaged in widespread war crimes against their own people.

If we are going to be hard on one side when they behave badly, then it shouldn't be a problem to condemn others when they transgress.

[rowan]

You're twisting my words there, quite intentionally, in an attempt to discredit me, quite obviously, which suggests you have some ad hominem tendencies of your own, which in turn provide your comments with an element of hypocrisy.

My comments about brainwashing relate to the effects of mass media and entertainment industries on society, and not to those who have a different viewpoint to me, and that is there and plain to see. Did you know the average child spends more time in front of the TV than they do at school? Of course that has an effect on the way they think. You'd be an idiot to believe otherwise. & we spend only one or two decades of our lives in school, whereas the influences of media and entertainment are ongoing. So the effect on us is inevitably much greater even than our standard education. There are those who exhibit quite clearly in their own comments the brainwashing effects of the mass media and entertainment industries.

I've seen very little on this forum condemning the US for its illegal actions in Syria (where it has not been invited), but plenty of condemnation of the regime for defending its territory (from US-backed proxies. So I've already answered that:

'The conflict in Syria is a proxy war imposed by external forces - ie NATO and their allies in the region - with use of terrorists in a nation which was previously relatively peaceful, and for no other reason than the leadership remained independent of Washington's control, and thus it had to be destroyed, like Iraq and Libya before it, resulting in hundreds of thousands of deaths, and hundreds of thousands more wounded, bereaved, orphaned, displaced and otherwise traumatized; and withal a refugee tidal wave resulting in countless more deaths and suffering. But the focus in the Western media has been on the supposed war crimes of the Syrian leadership and the army (which has remained loyal to it - tellingly) in its attempts to destroy those terrorists. Any leader in any country in the world would have done the same thing. America has committed war crimes against its own people, in fact. Perhaps you've heard of the MOVE & WACO bombings, just as a couple of examples. & that's to say nothing of the millions America has slaughtered in its wars abroad. But you want to focus on the leadership of a country under siege, even though various accusations have been proved false.'

So you, too, have only demonstrated to me the unbalanced perspective of a brainwashed mind.

Regarding the harrassment of Russian pilots by their American counterparts in Syrian airspace, the Western media has blamed the Russians, naturally, though the Russians are invited, and therefore operating legally, whereas the Americans are not invited and therefore operating illegally. https://rbth.com/defence/2017/01/16/rus ... ies_681758

[fivepointer]

Your own words and complete inability to form a balanced view discredit you.

To accuse me of hypocrisy is really the pot calling the kettle black.

[rowan]

I believe I answered your comments fully, and also provided you with a link to the information you requested. Brainwashing is inevitable in any society in which government/corporate controlled media and entertainment has such an overwhelming influence on our daily lives from the cradle to the grave. During the Cold War the Soviets used to say, the only difference between them and us was they knew they were being brainwashed. We didn't, and we still don't. But my comments on this refer to the phenomenon and not specifically to individuals - unless, of course, they are exhibiting its effects, say, by ignoring the deaths and sufferings of millions at the hands of the American empire and its cronies and focussing instead on the alleged and comparatively miniscule crimes of those who resist them. That is a grossly unbalanced perspective which in itself demonstrates very clearly the effects of brainwashing nationalist propaganda, and has nothing to do with whether I agree or not.

[Stones of granite]

More anti-Russian rhetoric
http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21 ... fe-beating

The Duma’s war on women
Why Russia is about to decriminalise wife-beating

It fits with traditional values, lawmakers say

SHOULD it be a crime for a husband to hit his wife? In many countries this question no longer needs discussing. But not in Russia, where the Duma (parliament) voted this week to decriminalise domestic violence against family members unless it is a repeat offence or causes serious medical damage. The change is part of a state-sponsored turn to traditionalism during Vladimir Putin’s third presidential term. It has exposed deep fault lines. Many Russians now embrace the liberal notion of individual rights, but others are moving in the opposite direction.

Activists warn that decriminalisation will legitimise abuse. “The overall message to Russian citizens is that domestic violence isn’t a crime,” says Andrei Sinelnikov of the Anna Centre, a violence-prevention charity.

The debate began in 2016, when the government decriminalised battery, the least violent form of assault on the Russian statute books. Russia is one of three countries in Europe and Central Asia that do not have laws specifically targeting domestic violence. Instead it is treated like other forms of assault, ignoring the fact that spouses and children are more vulnerable than other victims. But when it decriminalised battery last June, the Duma decided to exempt domestic abuse, instead making it subject to the same two-year maximum sentence as racially motivated offences.

That pleased civil-society groups that had been pushing for tougher rules. But the Russian Orthodox Church was furious. Scripture and Russian tradition, the church said, regard “the reasonable and loving use of physical punishment as an essential part of the rights given to parents by God himself”. Meanwhile, conservative groups worried that parents might face jail. They argued that it was wrong for parents to face harsher punishment for hitting their child than a neighbour would.

Under pressure from such groups, deputies have put forward a bill that makes the first instance of poboi—battery that does not do lasting harm—an administrative violation carrying a fine of 30,000 roubles ($502), community service or a 15-day detention. It also returns the crime to the realm of “private prosecution”, where the victim is responsible for collecting evidence and bringing a case. Repeat offences would be criminal infractions, but only within a year of the first, giving abusers a pass to beat relatives once a year. Vyacheslav Volodin, the speaker of the Duma, says the bill would help build “strong families”. The bill’s second reading on January 25th won 385 out of 387 votes. It is expected to sail through its third reading and be signed into law by Mr Putin.

He hit me, it didn’t feel like a kiss
Anna Zhavnerovich does not agree that tolerating domestic abuse leads to strong families. A lifestyle journalist in Moscow, Ms Zhavnerovich had lived with her boyfriend for several years and discussed marriage. One night in December 2014 the conversation turned towards the possibility of breaking up. Her boyfriend proceeded to beat her black and blue. She managed to get him convicted after lawyers who read the account she published online came to her aid. “People think it can’t happen to them,” says Ms Zhavnerovich. “They hold on to an illusion of safety.”

Domestic violence has deep cultural roots. An old Russian proverb says: “If he beats you it means he loves you.” “Violence isn’t just a norm, it’s our style of life,” says Alena Popova, an advocate for laws against domestic violence. The scale of the problem is difficult to measure, but according to Russia’s interior ministry, 40% of violent crimes happen within the family. More than 70% of women who call the Anna Centre’s hotline never report their cases to the police. The practice of private prosecution, which forces victims to navigate bureaucratic obstacles, dissuades many. “It’s the circles of hell, it goes on and on,” says Natalia Tunikova, who tried unsuccessfully to prosecute the man she says abused her.

Nonetheless, awareness has been growing, partly thanks to grassroots efforts. “The idea that ‘it’s her fault’ is no longer accepted a priori,” says Ms Zhavnerovich. (Curiously, she supports the new law, believing that more women will come forward if they do not think their partners will be sent to Russia’s harsh prisons.) A social-media flashmob under the hashtag “IAmNotAfraidToSpeak” took off in Ukraine and Russia last year, with thousands sharing tales of abuse.

Russia’s ultra-conservatives are not afraid to speak, either. Elena Mizulina, a senator known for promoting laws against “gay propaganda”, has pushed the latest changes, saying that “women are not offended when we see a man beating his wife.” But decriminalisation fans also argue that family affairs are not the state’s business. “The family is a delicate environment where people should sort things out themselves,” says Maria Mamikonyan, head of the All-Russian Parents Resistance movement, which collected thousands of signatures supporting the measure.

In a country scarred by communism—where the state was once all-intrusive and families had virtually no privacy—such sensitivities are understandable. Some of the opposition to domestic-violence laws stems from a rational fear of allowing Russia’s corrupt police and judiciary more power over family life. When critics charge that conservatives’ views hark back to the Domostroi, a set of household rules popular during the reign of Ivan the Terrible, Ms Mamikonyan objects. What they advocate is not a restoration of “the Middle Ages”, she says, but merely a return to the values “that European civilisation held in the 19th and 20th centuries”. To many Russian women, that still sounds like a giant step backwards.

[belgarion]

More anti-Russian rhetoric
http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21 ... fe-beating

The Duma’s war on women
Why Russia is about to decriminalise wife-beating

It fits with traditional values, lawmakers say

SHOULD it be a crime for a husband to hit his wife? In many countries this question no longer needs discussing. But not in Russia, where the Duma (parliament) voted this week to decriminalise domestic violence against family members unless it is a repeat offence or causes serious medical damage. The change is part of a state-sponsored turn to traditionalism during Vladimir Putin’s third presidential term. It has exposed deep fault lines. Many Russians now embrace the liberal notion of individual rights, but others are moving in the opposite direction.

Activists warn that decriminalisation will legitimise abuse. “The overall message to Russian citizens is that domestic violence isn’t a crime,” says Andrei Sinelnikov of the Anna Centre, a violence-prevention charity.

The debate began in 2016, when the government decriminalised battery, the least violent form of assault on the Russian statute books. Russia is one of three countries in Europe and Central Asia that do not have laws specifically targeting domestic violence. Instead it is treated like other forms of assault, ignoring the fact that spouses and children are more vulnerable than other victims. But when it decriminalised battery last June, the Duma decided to exempt domestic abuse, instead making it subject to the same two-year maximum sentence as racially motivated offences.

That pleased civil-society groups that had been pushing for tougher rules. But the Russian Orthodox Church was furious. Scripture and Russian tradition, the church said, regard “the reasonable and loving use of physical punishment as an essential part of the rights given to parents by God himself”. Meanwhile, conservative groups worried that parents might face jail. They argued that it was wrong for parents to face harsher punishment for hitting their child than a neighbour would.

Under pressure from such groups, deputies have put forward a bill that makes the first instance of poboi—battery that does not do lasting harm—an administrative violation carrying a fine of 30,000 roubles ($502), community service or a 15-day detention. It also returns the crime to the realm of “private prosecution”, where the victim is responsible for collecting evidence and bringing a case. Repeat offences would be criminal infractions, but only within a year of the first, giving abusers a pass to beat relatives once a year. Vyacheslav Volodin, the speaker of the Duma, says the bill would help build “strong families”. The bill’s second reading on January 25th won 385 out of 387 votes. It is expected to sail through its third reading and be signed into law by Mr Putin.

He hit me, it didn’t feel like a kiss
Anna Zhavnerovich does not agree that tolerating domestic abuse leads to strong families. A lifestyle journalist in Moscow, Ms Zhavnerovich had lived with her boyfriend for several years and discussed marriage. One night in December 2014 the conversation turned towards the possibility of breaking up. Her boyfriend proceeded to beat her black and blue. She managed to get him convicted after lawyers who read the account she published online came to her aid. “People think it can’t happen to them,” says Ms Zhavnerovich. “They hold on to an illusion of safety.”

Domestic violence has deep cultural roots. An old Russian proverb says: “If he beats you it means he loves you.” “Violence isn’t just a norm, it’s our style of life,” says Alena Popova, an advocate for laws against domestic violence. The scale of the problem is difficult to measure, but according to Russia’s interior ministry, 40% of violent crimes happen within the family. More than 70% of women who call the Anna Centre’s hotline never report their cases to the police. The practice of private prosecution, which forces victims to navigate bureaucratic obstacles, dissuades many. “It’s the circles of hell, it goes on and on,” says Natalia Tunikova, who tried unsuccessfully to prosecute the man she says abused her.

Nonetheless, awareness has been growing, partly thanks to grassroots efforts. “The idea that ‘it’s her fault’ is no longer accepted a priori,” says Ms Zhavnerovich. (Curiously, she supports the new law, believing that more women will come forward if they do not think their partners will be sent to Russia’s harsh prisons.) A social-media flashmob under the hashtag “IAmNotAfraidToSpeak” took off in Ukraine and Russia last year, with thousands sharing tales of abuse.

Russia’s ultra-conservatives are not afraid to speak, either. Elena Mizulina, a senator known for promoting laws against “gay propaganda”, has pushed the latest changes, saying that “women are not offended when we see a man beating his wife.” But decriminalisation fans also argue that family affairs are not the state’s business. “The family is a delicate environment where people should sort things out themselves,” says Maria Mamikonyan, head of the All-Russian Parents Resistance movement, which collected thousands of signatures supporting the measure.

In a country scarred by communism—where the state was once all-intrusive and families had virtually no privacy—such sensitivities are understandable. Some of the opposition to domestic-violence laws stems from a rational fear of allowing Russia’s corrupt police and judiciary more power over family life. When critics charge that conservatives’ views hark back to the Domostroi, a set of household rules popular during the reign of Ivan the Terrible, Ms Mamikonyan objects. What they advocate is not a restoration of “the Middle Ages”, she says, but merely a return to the values “that European civilisation held in the 19th and 20th centuries”. To many Russian women, that still sounds like a giant step backwards.

Never mind anti Russian rhetoric, this once again show that religion is the biggest threat to having a caring & repsectful society. How the feck
can being violent towards a family member be 'reasonable & loving'

[jared_7]

Never mind anti Russian rhetoric, this once again show that religion is the biggest threat to having a caring & repsectful society. How the feck
can being violent towards a family member be 'reasonable & loving'

Coz He sez so, innit?

https://answeringchristian.wordpress.co ... rom-bible/

[Stones of granite]

More anti-Russian rhetoric
http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21 ... fe-beating

The Duma’s war on women
Why Russia is about to decriminalise wife-beating

It fits with traditional values, lawmakers say

SHOULD it be a crime for a husband to hit his wife? In many countries this question no longer needs discussing. But not in Russia, where the Duma (parliament) voted this week to decriminalise domestic violence against family members unless it is a repeat offence or causes serious medical damage. The change is part of a state-sponsored turn to traditionalism during Vladimir Putin’s third presidential term. It has exposed deep fault lines. Many Russians now embrace the liberal notion of individual rights, but others are moving in the opposite direction.

Activists warn that decriminalisation will legitimise abuse. “The overall message to Russian citizens is that domestic violence isn’t a crime,” says Andrei Sinelnikov of the Anna Centre, a violence-prevention charity.

The debate began in 2016, when the government decriminalised battery, the least violent form of assault on the Russian statute books. Russia is one of three countries in Europe and Central Asia that do not have laws specifically targeting domestic violence. Instead it is treated like other forms of assault, ignoring the fact that spouses and children are more vulnerable than other victims. But when it decriminalised battery last June, the Duma decided to exempt domestic abuse, instead making it subject to the same two-year maximum sentence as racially motivated offences.

That pleased civil-society groups that had been pushing for tougher rules. But the Russian Orthodox Church was furious. Scripture and Russian tradition, the church said, regard “the reasonable and loving use of physical punishment as an essential part of the rights given to parents by God himself”. Meanwhile, conservative groups worried that parents might face jail. They argued that it was wrong for parents to face harsher punishment for hitting their child than a neighbour would.

Under pressure from such groups, deputies have put forward a bill that makes the first instance of poboi—battery that does not do lasting harm—an administrative violation carrying a fine of 30,000 roubles ($502), community service or a 15-day detention. It also returns the crime to the realm of “private prosecution”, where the victim is responsible for collecting evidence and bringing a case. Repeat offences would be criminal infractions, but only within a year of the first, giving abusers a pass to beat relatives once a year. Vyacheslav Volodin, the speaker of the Duma, says the bill would help build “strong families”. The bill’s second reading on January 25th won 385 out of 387 votes. It is expected to sail through its third reading and be signed into law by Mr Putin.

He hit me, it didn’t feel like a kiss
Anna Zhavnerovich does not agree that tolerating domestic abuse leads to strong families. A lifestyle journalist in Moscow, Ms Zhavnerovich had lived with her boyfriend for several years and discussed marriage. One night in December 2014 the conversation turned towards the possibility of breaking up. Her boyfriend proceeded to beat her black and blue. She managed to get him convicted after lawyers who read the account she published online came to her aid. “People think it can’t happen to them,” says Ms Zhavnerovich. “They hold on to an illusion of safety.”

Domestic violence has deep cultural roots. An old Russian proverb says: “If he beats you it means he loves you.” “Violence isn’t just a norm, it’s our style of life,” says Alena Popova, an advocate for laws against domestic violence. The scale of the problem is difficult to measure, but according to Russia’s interior ministry, 40% of violent crimes happen within the family. More than 70% of women who call the Anna Centre’s hotline never report their cases to the police. The practice of private prosecution, which forces victims to navigate bureaucratic obstacles, dissuades many. “It’s the circles of hell, it goes on and on,” says Natalia Tunikova, who tried unsuccessfully to prosecute the man she says abused her.

Nonetheless, awareness has been growing, partly thanks to grassroots efforts. “The idea that ‘it’s her fault’ is no longer accepted a priori,” says Ms Zhavnerovich. (Curiously, she supports the new law, believing that more women will come forward if they do not think their partners will be sent to Russia’s harsh prisons.) A social-media flashmob under the hashtag “IAmNotAfraidToSpeak” took off in Ukraine and Russia last year, with thousands sharing tales of abuse.

Russia’s ultra-conservatives are not afraid to speak, either. Elena Mizulina, a senator known for promoting laws against “gay propaganda”, has pushed the latest changes, saying that “women are not offended when we see a man beating his wife.” But decriminalisation fans also argue that family affairs are not the state’s business. “The family is a delicate environment where people should sort things out themselves,” says Maria Mamikonyan, head of the All-Russian Parents Resistance movement, which collected thousands of signatures supporting the measure.

In a country scarred by communism—where the state was once all-intrusive and families had virtually no privacy—such sensitivities are understandable. Some of the opposition to domestic-violence laws stems from a rational fear of allowing Russia’s corrupt police and judiciary more power over family life. When critics charge that conservatives’ views hark back to the Domostroi, a set of household rules popular during the reign of Ivan the Terrible, Ms Mamikonyan objects. What they advocate is not a restoration of “the Middle Ages”, she says, but merely a return to the values “that European civilisation held in the 19th and 20th centuries”. To many Russian women, that still sounds like a giant step backwards.

Never mind anti Russian rhetoric, this once again show that religion is the biggest threat to having a caring & repsectful society. How the feck
can being violent towards a family member be 'reasonable & loving'

Nevertheless, Russia is formally a secular state, therefore the responsibility for this lies in the Duma.

[rowan]

& what does the Economist have to say about America and the EU's staunched ally Saudi Arabia and its treatment of women?

& what does the Economist have to say about Afghanistan, where America enlisted the Mujahideen to destroy the Socialist government and women's rights with it?

& what does the Economist have to say about the sexist attitude of ultraorthodox Israeli Jews toward women?

& what does the Economist have to say about bombing countries for oil and killing countless multitudes of their women?