The 6th Mass Extinction

[rowan]

So a thread about the effects of human activity on speciation has morphed with a depressing inevitability into a monologue on 'Murrica.

Well done.

This from a fellow who thinks Auckland politics is a relevant topic for the Southern Hemisphere rugby forum

[morepork]

Oh how do I come back from such a stinging rebuke?


Oh yeah.


Fuck off you helmet.

[Vengeful Glutton]

No, there is a fair bit in that Zeitgeist video I dodn't buy into, like the 9/11 conspiracy theories. I think the Americans may have allowed that to happen, just as they may have allowed Pearl Harbor to happen, and almost certainly allowed the Lusitania to be sunk, but I would stop short of suggesting it was an inside job and don't see any credible evidence for that. But I still think Zeitgeist is a fascinating video, it explains religion very well, and the piece on the Bush family and the international billionaires club that runs the world is really interesting. Of course a lot of things have been whitewashed, and even buried entirely, since WWII and the holocaust, and of course a lot of business was being done between America, Britain and France et al with the Nazi regime right up until the outbreak of that conflict (and probably well into it in the former's case). Prescott Bush's dealings with the Germans seems fairly-well documented, in fact. This has even been published in mainstream publications such as the Guardian and Washington Times.

Dupont were supplying the luftwaffe with an aviation fuel additive prior to the war. I think Bushes family had some involvement in selling munitions or munition parts to the Germans. Memories a bit vague on that one.

JP Morgan et al were allegedly bank rolling wehrmacht munitions and armour. I've always been skeptical about the theory that the seppos were planning a war to provide jobs for the boys after the great depression. I think they called a halt on their bankers and industrialists dealings with Hitler. Allegations that US intelligence knew the Japs were going to launch an attack on Pearl Harbour is pretty much beyond doubt at this stage. Apparently it was British codebreakers who had cracked Jap diplomatic codes who leaked it to OSS.

IMO, there's a stronger case for Sam going to war in WW1 to insure Morgan's loans to Tommy and the Frog weren't defaulted on. It's rather curious that they entered the war roughly around the time when trouble was breaking out in Mother Russia (i.e when the Boche only had to fight on one front). Interesting story about the German High command bank rolling Lenin.

If we knew what went on, we'd not sleep at night lads.

[rowan]

No, there is a fair bit in that Zeitgeist video I dodn't buy into, like the 9/11 conspiracy theories. I think the Americans may have allowed that to happen, just as they may have allowed Pearl Harbor to happen, and almost certainly allowed the Lusitania to be sunk, but I would stop short of suggesting it was an inside job and don't see any credible evidence for that. But I still think Zeitgeist is a fascinating video, it explains religion very well, and the piece on the Bush family and the international billionaires club that runs the world is really interesting. Of course a lot of things have been whitewashed, and even buried entirely, since WWII and the holocaust, and of course a lot of business was being done between America, Britain and France et al with the Nazi regime right up until the outbreak of that conflict (and probably well into it in the former's case). Prescott Bush's dealings with the Germans seems fairly-well documented, in fact. This has even been published in mainstream publications such as the Guardian and Washington Times.

Dupont were supplying the luftwaffe with an aviation fuel additive prior to the war. I think Bushes family had some involvement in selling munitions or munition parts to the Germans. Memories a bit vague on that one.

JP Morgan et al were allegedly bank rolling wehrmacht munitions and armour. I've always been skeptical about the theory that the seppos were planning a war to provide jobs for the boys after the great depression. I think they called a halt on their bankers and industrialists dealings with Hitler. Allegations that US intelligence knew the Japs were going to launch an attack on Pearl Harbour is pretty much beyond doubt at this stage. Apparently it was British codebreakers who had cracked Jap diplomatic codes who leaked it to OSS.

IMO, there's a stronger case for Sam going to war in WW1 to insure Morgan's loans to Tommy and the Frog weren't defaulted on. It's rather curious that they entered the war roughly around the time when trouble was breaking out in Mother Russia (i.e when the Boche only had to fight on one front). Interesting story about the German High command bank rolling Lenin.

If we knew what went on, we'd not sleep at night lads.

Indeed

[morepork]

I like football and porno, and books about war......

[rowan]

Interesting. Archaeological findings suggest human in habitation of the Americas goes back about 24 thousand years - a tad before Columbus, I believe...

Up until now, it had been thought humans entered North America across the Bering Strait around 14,000 years ago. Now, new evidence has shown beyond a doubt that it was in fact 10,000 years earlier than that.

Researchers from Canada and the UK have re-examined and radiocarbon-dated bones excavated from the Bluefish Caves in the Yukon region of northwest Canada, near the Alaska border, and found undeniable traces of human activity that date back 24,000 years. Their research is published in PLOS One.

The site was first excavated by archaeologist Jacques Cinq-Mars between 1977 and 1987. Cinq-Mars discovered a wealth of animal bones, and based on the radiocarbon dating, proposed that humans first settled in North America towards the end of the last ice age, around 30,000 years ago.

However, with the absence of any other archeological sites of a similar age, as well as a lack of evidence that the animal bones found – which included horse, mammoth, bison, and caribou – were there due to human activity such as hunting, Cinq-Mars’ hypothesis proved controversial.

To settle the matter once and for all, doctoral student Lauriane Bourgeon and her supervisor Professor Ariane Burke of the University of Montreal spent two years examining the 36,000 bone fragments from the Bluefish Caves that had been preserved at the Canadian Museum of History in Gatineau.

They found undeniable traces of human activity in 15 bones, with a further 20 fragments also showing probable traces of the same type of activity.

There was evidence that a "series of straight, V-shaped lines on the surface of the bones were made by stone tools used to skin animals," said Burke in a statement. "These are indisputable cut-marks created by humans."

They also sent the bones off to the Radiocarbon Accelerator Unit at Oxford University in the UK to be radiocarbon-dated again. They dated the oldest bone, a horse mandible with stone marks from a tool used to remove its tongue, back to between 23,000 and 24,000 years ago.



http://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-an ... e-thought/

[Vengeful Glutton]

I like football and porno, and books about war......

[rowan]

Positive news for a change

Researchers have discovered a new species of river dolphin from the Amazon.

Writing in the journal Plos One, scientists led by Tomas Hrbek of Brazil’s Federal University of Amazonas formally describe Inia araguaiaensis, a freshwater dolphin that inhabits the Araguaia River Basin. It is the first true river dolphin discovered since 1918.

The discovery came after Hrbek and colleagues noticed that a group of river dolphins in the Araguaia was isolated from other Amazon dolphins by a series of rapids. Conducting genetic analysis, the researchers found the Araguaian boto (Inia araguaiaensis) to be distinct enough from other Amazon dolphins to be classified as a different species. The scientists estimate that the dolphin species diverged some two million years ago, corresponding to the separation of the Araguaia-Tocantins basin from the Amazon basin.

The differences between the Araguaian boto and their closest relatives, Inia geoffrensis and Inia boliviensis, extend beyond genetics. The Araguaian boto is smaller, has a different number of teeth, and has a wider skull.

https://news.mongabay.com/2014/01/new-d ... scientists

[rowan]

Playing God?

"Woolly mammoths" could be brought back from extinction within two years, the scientists behind a groundbreaking resurrection project have said.

World-renowned geneticist Prof George Church and his team at Harvard University have been working for the past two years on recreating the DNA blueprint of the mammoth.

They have used DNA from mammoths that were preserved in Arctic permafrost to look for the genes that separated them from elephants, such as those with code for a shaggy coat, big ears and antifreeze blood.

By splicing the mammoth genes into the genome of an elephant embryo, the team believe they can recreate a mammoth-elephant hybrid, which would have all the recognisable features of a mammoth.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017 ... xtinction/

[zer0]

Mammoths? F*ck those guys. They be dead for a reason. No. Put that genetics voodoo to good use and give us what we all really want. Sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads.

[rowan]

Mammoths? F*ck those guys. They be dead for a reason. No. Put that genetics voodoo to good use and give us what we all really want. Sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads.

Well, on one hand it's pretty certain we wiped them out. On the other, they existed toward the end of the last Ice Age. Woudn't be too kind to bring them back at the height of global warming . . .

[rowan]

Keep in mind that the last known population of woolly mammoths died out around the time that the Great Pyramid of Giza was being constructed. They're actually a lot more recent than most people probably realise.

Sure, which gives even more credence to the theory humans were responsible for their demise. So what are we going to do? Stick them in zoos in Siberia and Canada and gawk at them? Given we have several hundred species of life-forms going extinct every year at the present, scientists might be better served trying to save more of them than worry about reviving the ones we already got rid off, IMHO.

[morepork]

Bloody scientists. They all spend their time cloning abominations in laboratories that no body is allowed to see.

[WaspInWales]

Bring them back, increase their numbers to millions by cloning the fuckers. Then slaughter them all for good quality winter clothing and warm duvets at premium prices.

#Capitalism.

[canta_brian]

Bring them back, increase their numbers to millions by cloning the fuckers. Then slaughter them all for good quality winter clothing and warm duvets at premium prices.

#Capitalism.

You'll never get premium prices if you clone millions of them.

Apparently dodo was delicious. KFD Mmmmmm.

[Which Tyler]

Giant Turtles and Aurocs would be the way to go for the meat industry.
The former may take forever to mature; but they can do it off by themselves out in the sea; and just collect them when they come to land for breeding.
Aurocs would just replace cow.

The attraction of Mammoths isn't going to be meat or clothing - it's going to be big-game hunters. The likes of Trump would pay a fortune to breed and then shoot a mammoth; but you'd need to keep mubers low, or everyone would be at it; and profit margins diminish.
Better bet for this market would be sabre-toothed cats - could put them in alongside the mamoths, charging millions per shooting trip.

[rowan]

Giant Turtles and Aurocs would be the way to go for the meat industry.
The former may take forever to mature; but they can do it off by themselves out in the sea; and just collect them when they come to land for breeding.
Aurocs would just replace cow.

The attraction of Mammoths isn't going to be meat or clothing - it's going to be big-game hunters. The likes of Trump would pay a fortune to breed and then shoot a mammoth; but you'd need to keep mubers low, or everyone would be at it; and profit margins diminish.
Better bet for this market would be sabre-toothed cats - could put them in alongside the mamoths, charging millions per shooting trip.

It would be pretty easy to clone the moa, I should think. Related to the Kiwi, plenty of remains dug up since they were only driven into extinction several hundred years ago. Enough kai for the whole hangi on those bones! The eggs would make a fairly decent omelette, too

But what would be really cool is if they were able to bring back the quetzalcoatlus. Size of a pony with a giraffe length neck and 11 metre wing span, we could ride those things around and dispense with planes and automobiles (Manure catchers obligatory, of course)!

[morepork]

What should be considered is using modern molecular biology technology to reduce genetic bottlenecks in at risk species. Gene editing of fixed traits in small isolated populations that threaten reproductive viability. That would be the shit.

[rowan]

& then we build a few massive dams & reclaim the lost continent of Zealandia...

http://time.com/4674375/zealandia-new-z ... continent/

[Which Tyler]

It would be pretty easy to clone the moa, I should think. Related to the Kiwi, plenty of remains dug up since they were only driven into extinction several hundred years ago. Enough kai for the whole hangi on those bones! The eggs would make a fairly decent omelette, too

But what would be really cool is if they were able to bring back the quetzalcoatlus. Size of a pony with a giraffe length neck and 11 metre wing span, we could ride those things around and dispense with planes and automobiles (Manure catchers obligatory, of course)!

I was thinking of moa as well - just felt I'd stop at the obvious 2

[rowan]

Keep in mind that the last known population of woolly mammoths died out around the time that the Great Pyramid of Giza was being constructed. They're actually a lot more recent than most people probably realise.

Sure, which gives even more credence to the theory humans were responsible for their demise. So what are we going to do? Stick them in zoos in Siberia and Canada and gawk at them? Given we have several hundred species of life-forms going extinct every year at the present, scientists might be better served trying to save more of them than worry about reviving the ones we already got rid off, IMHO.

Because all the scienticians can only work on one thing at a time collectively.

Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking, your Haplessness. Thank you for showing me the error of my ways...

[Mellsblue]

Because all the scienticians can only work on one thing at a time collectively.

Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking, your Haplessness. Thank you for showing me the error of my ways...

You do realise that it is possible for scientists to work on more than one thing at once, right? Aside from that, why shouldn't animals that went extinct due to human contact be made un-extinct?

Have you not watched Jurassic Park?

[Vengeful Glutton]

[rowan]

Interesting. Horses originated in the Americas but were extinct on that continent long before Columbus arrived.

The frozen remains of a horse more than half a million years old have reluctantly given up their genetic secrets, providing scientists with the oldest DNA ever sequenced.

The horse was discovered in 2003 in the ancient permafrost of Canada’s west-central Yukon Territory, not far from the Alaskan border.

And although the animal was dated to between 560,000 and 780,000 years old, an international team of researchers was able to use a new combination of techniques to decipher its genetic code.

(Read about another recent find: “Wyoming Cave Yields a Trove of Ice Age Fossils — and Ancient Animal DNA“)

Among the team’s findings is that the genus Equus — which includes all horses, donkeys, and zebras — dates back more than 4 million years, twice as long ago as scientists had previously believed.

Przewalski's Horse
The Przewalski’s Horse, which lives on the steppes of central Asia, likely deviated from the lineage leading to modern domesticated horses some 50,000 years ago. (Photo: Joe Ravi)
“When we started the project, everyone — including us, to be honest — thought it was impossible,” said Dr. Ludovic Orlando of the University of Copenhagen, who coordinated the research, in a statement to Western Digs.

“And it was to some extent, with the methods available by then. So it’s clearly methodological advances that made this possible.”

Orlando and his colleagues published their findings this summer in the journal Nature; he discussed them today in a lecture at The Royal Society, London.

Previous to this, the oldest genome ever sequenced was of a 120,000-year-old polar bear — no small feat considering that the half-life of a DNA molecule is estimated to be about 521 years.

By this reckoning, even under the best conditions, DNA could remain intact for no more than 6.8 million years.

(See this recent amazing find: “First Columbian Mammoth With Hair Discovered on California Farm“)

But Orlando’s team was able to make the most of what they had for a number of reasons, he said.

The fact that the remains were frozen helped slow the rate of decay. But they also “targeted specific DNA preservation niches,” he said, like the protein called collagen found in the animal’s bones, which is more DNA-rich than other tissues.

“But also we pioneered the usage of what is called true Single Molecular Sequencing that basically reads through molecules as they stand, without further manipulation,” Orlando added.

By tracking a full, single DNA molecule, the team was able to avoid having to “amplify” fragments, which can often introduce errors.

To get a better sense of what this new, ancient genome held, Orlando’s team compared it against that of a 43,000-year-old horse, plus modern domestic horse breeds, and finally the Przewalski’s horse, an equid that makes its home on the Asian steppes and holds the title as the last surviving population of wild horses.

These full-genome comparisons allowed the scientists to construct “a molecular clock” that can reveal benchmarks in the horse’s evolutionary history, Orlando said.

And first among its revelations is that the shared ancestor of all horses, donkeys, and zebras lived more than 4 million years ago.

“So basically we know that members of the genus Equus are at least twice as old as previously believed,” he said.

The comparisons also shed light on genetic variations, and therefore population size, over time, Orlando noted, revealing “bursts of expansion” during cooler periods as grasslands grew, and contractions in size during times of warming.

(Learn more about how global warming affected the size of prehistoric mammals: “Prehistoric Global Warming Caused Dwarfism in American Mammals, Fossils Show“)

horse fossil
Two pieces of the 700,000 year-old horse metapodial bone, just before being extracted for ancient DNA. Photo: © Ludovic Orlando
The next, most obvious subject for these DNA-decoding techniques are early human ancestors, he said.

Methods like those used on the ancient horse could be applied to determine, for example, how human species like Homo heidelbergensis may have been related genetically to Homo neandertalensis and modern humans, he said.

(Explore the history of humans and horses: “Ice Age Cave Dwellers in Oregon Lived Among Extinct ‘Stout-Legged’ Horses, Fossils Show“)

“Basically genomes of that age will enable us to test the validity of the many paleontological species in our family tree,” he said, “and to determine how they relate to each other, and whether they exchanged genes or not.”

“It’s not the future,” he said of whether this technology is in reach.

“It’s basically already there.”

http://westerndigs.org/700000-year-old- ... r-decoded/

[morepork]

That horse study was published in 2013.