Lions

[whatisthejava]

I hope they take Best. Mainly as on form he's the best we have but also because I don't want his horror show in Oz to be his sole Lions experience.

Aye he's better than that. I maintain he should be captain as well as hev won't have a hissy fit if he doesn't make the xv or even xxiii

He is better but he doesn't show it for the lions so why should he get the nod ahead of someone else.

His form this year has been poor (for him) in domestic, European and international level.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

I hope they take Best. Mainly as on form he's the best we have but also because I don't want his horror show in Oz to be his sole Lions experience.

Aye he's better than that. I maintain he should be captain as well as hev won't have a hissy fit if he doesn't make the xv or even xxiii

He is better but he doesn't show it for the lions so why should he get the nod ahead of someone else.

His form this year has been poor (for him) in domestic, European and international level.

You're seriously going on his form 4 years ago?

[ARM]

Aye he's better than that. I maintain he should be captain as well as hev won't have a hissy fit if he doesn't make the xv or even xxiii

He is better but he doesn't show it for the lions so why should he get the nod ahead of someone else.

His form this year has been poor (for him) in domestic, European and international level.

You're seriously going on his form 4 years ago?

Much more relevant that captaining Ireland to a win over NZ four months ago.

[whatisthejava]

Aye he's better than that. I maintain he should be captain as well as hev won't have a hissy fit if he doesn't make the xv or even xxiii

He is better but he doesn't show it for the lions so why should he get the nod ahead of someone else.

His form this year has been poor (for him) in domestic, European and international level.

You're seriously going on his form 4 years ago?

No im not but he seems to dip in lions years

last year he was out and out the best british hooker , he hasnt been helped by Ulster being a bit baws this year, but he started out after the autumn as a shoe in for the 23, with some arguing he should make the 15 but now he isnt,

This year you could justify him being 4th choice behind Owens, hartley and Geore (not in that order)

[whatisthejava]

He is better but he doesn't show it for the lions so why should he get the nod ahead of someone else.

His form this year has been poor (for him) in domestic, European and international level.

You're seriously going on his form 4 years ago?

Much more relevant that captaining Ireland to a win over NZ four months ago.

Most of that irish team have dipped since the NZ game, god knows why , how you go from outscoring the all blacks to not being able to buy a try in the backs in 8 games is beyond me

[Matt Ha]

Had a look at the Lion's teams of various pundits in the press and Hogg is the only Scot that makes the starting XVs (not only the only Scot but also the only Scottish back despite the Scottish back line being the most dangerous in the 6N). The calls, for the most part are fair-enough, but you could also make a number of other fair-enough calls in which two or three other Scots would get the benefit of the doubt. Maybe I'm wrong and being overly neurotic but there is I suspect still a bit of bias against Scots.

[Stones of granite]

Had a look at the Lion's teams of various pundits in the press and Hogg is the only Scot that makes the starting XVs (not only the only Scot but also the only Scottish back despite the Scottish back line being the most dangerous in the 6N). The calls, for the most part are fair-enough, but you could also make a number of other fair-enough calls in which two or three other Scots would get the benefit of the doubt. Maybe I'm wrong and being overly neurotic but there is I suspect still a bit of bias against Scots.

That there Calcutta Cup match did a lot of damage.

[whatisthejava]

Strange that a bad 80 mins in defense wipes away 400 mins of crap attack by Wales and a Ireland.

[hugh_woatmeigh]

Had a look at the Lion's teams of various pundits in the press and Hogg is the only Scot that makes the starting XVs (not only the only Scot but also the only Scottish back despite the Scottish back line being the most dangerous in the 6N). The calls, for the most part are fair-enough, but you could also make a number of other fair-enough calls in which two or three other Scots would get the benefit of the doubt. Maybe I'm wrong and being overly neurotic but there is I suspect still a bit of bias against Scots.

That there Calcutta Cup match did a lot of damage.

Absolutely. Standing up to players that are clearly better than you & performing in an intimidating away environment are two important pre-requisites for facing NZ in NZ. We failed on both counts. It's not bias.

I suspect it'll be Hogg & Seymour. J Gray if AWJ is out.

[hugh_woatmeigh]

Strange that a bad 80 mins in defense wipes away 400 mins of crap attack by Wales and a Ireland.

It's not 80 minutes of bad defense its 80 minutes of complete mental fragility and we all know it.

[whatisthejava]

Strange that a bad 80 mins in defense wipes away 400 mins of crap attack by Wales and a Ireland.

It's not 80 minutes of bad defense its 80 minutes of complete mental fragility and we all know it.

Yeah , i cant disagree but id still rather take players who are going to challenge the all blacks defence then run straight into them all day every day but i think its finding an excuse that suits you, its a big one and the players only have themselves to blame.

I think it probabbly suits Scotland wither way because Australia dont look like they are in great shakes and if Toonie settles in quick we could have the nonsence of Scotland beating Oz in Oz at the same time as the Lions failing to score a try against the all blacks

Regardless of how good the english backs are, how quickly will Howley destroy their confidence)

[hugh_woatmeigh]

Strange that a bad 80 mins in defense wipes away 400 mins of crap attack by Wales and a Ireland.

It's not 80 minutes of bad defense its 80 minutes of complete mental fragility and we all know it.

Yeah , i cant disagree but id still rather take players who are going to challenge the all blacks defence then run straight into them all day every day but i think its finding an excuse that suits you, its a big one and the players only have themselves to blame.

I think it probabbly suits Scotland wither way because Australia dont look like they are in great shakes and if Toonie settles in quick we could have the nonsence of Scotland beating Oz in Oz at the same time as the Lions failing to score a try against the all blacks

Regardless of how good the english backs are, how quickly will Howley destroy their confidence)

As you pointed out it's not that relevant as Howley is coaching them.

[Matt Ha]

Yup Scotland exposed their psychological weaknesses against England but you can also say the same about other teams. Ireland, beat the All Blacks but struggled for form all 6Ns. Was it coaching or in the mind? Wales, not at the races for most of the tournament despite the talent they have. Even England were thrown off kilter, and as a consequence were awful, for 40 minutes against Italy, and failed put aside an Irish team struggling for form.

[Big D]

Had a look at the Lion's teams of various pundits in the press and Hogg is the only Scot that makes the starting XVs (not only the only Scot but also the only Scottish back despite the Scottish back line being the most dangerous in the 6N). The calls, for the most part are fair-enough, but you could also make a number of other fair-enough calls in which two or three other Scots would get the benefit of the doubt. Maybe I'm wrong and being overly neurotic but there is I suspect still a bit of bias against Scots.

Spikey Phillips has Seymour and Hogg in his.

If we are talking about starting the test matches then there is pretty stiff competition and the England game will be fresh in the memory. The discussion about starting a test match is very different than the squad discussion.

Being realistic talking about starting the test series:
Nel is injured otherwise would have had a massive shout.
Gray (either as I think Richie out performed his wee bro this 6N) - Pundits have an erection for AWJ as captain and the English boys were dominant against us and have been pretty good all 6N.
Dunbar - was very quiet with ball in hand and there is merit in a Sexton/Henshaw or Sexton/Farrell combo so I can see the logic.
Jones - JJ is very good. The Lions have some pretty good options at 13.
Seymour - I rate him and would start him but there are a few good wingers about. I would start him though.
Hogg - Best FB in GB+I by a long way.

[kk67]

Spikey. Good player, handsome,....not a good selector.
Made me laugh hearing Conrad had never watched an entire 6N's game before. He's been busy playing and sleeping,...of course he hasn't seen one.

[Cameo]

Trying not to get caught up in these but just reading the lions selections in the guardian. Not the worst but some people just see a different game than me. Jack Nowell in the starting team even though he was one of the few England players who played as badly as Scotland at Twickenham and barely gets in the England team. Also, I really rate Liam Williams but he didnt do much this six nations did he. Certainly not to get ahead of Hogg

[Spiffy]

He is better but he doesn't show it for the lions so why should he get the nod ahead of someone else.

His form this year has been poor (for him) in domestic, European and international level.

You're seriously going on his form 4 years ago?

No im not but he seems to dip in lions years

last year he was out and out the best british hooker , he hasnt been helped by Ulster being a bit baws this year, but he started out after the autumn as a shoe in for the 23, with some arguing he should make the 15 but now he isnt,

This year you could justify him being 4th choice behind Owens, hartley and Geore (not in that order)

Hartley is a total waste of space. He shows no leadership, physicality, skill or speed. He is average at best. He is routinely subbed off for the second half of England games. I cannot under his selection by so many pundits as the likely Lions hooker. He is not worth his spot on the England squad.

As far as the Lions go I'd rate him behind Best, Owens, Baldwin, George, Brown, Bullock, Scannell, Cronin, Youngs, Taylor and Webber. Thats only 11 hookers mind! Even his club, Northampton has a better hooker in the form of Mikey Haywood.

Do not agree about Best - he played Hartley off the park in all aspects of the game, including leadership.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

You're seriously going on his form 4 years ago?

No im not but he seems to dip in lions years

last year he was out and out the best british hooker , he hasnt been helped by Ulster being a bit baws this year, but he started out after the autumn as a shoe in for the 23, with some arguing he should make the 15 but now he isnt,

This year you could justify him being 4th choice behind Owens, hartley and Geore (not in that order)

Hartley is a total waste of space. He shows no leadership, physicality, skill or speed. He is average at best. He is routinely subbed off for the second half of England games. I cannot under his selection by so many pundits as the likely Lions hooker. He is not worth his spot on the England squad.

As far as the Lions go I'd rate him behind Best, Owens, Baldwin, George, Brown, Bullock, Scannell, Cronin, Youngs, Taylor and Webber. Thats only 11 hookers mind! Even his club, Northampton has a better hooker in the form of Mikey Haywood.

Do not agree about Best - he played Hartley off the park in all aspects of the game, including leadership.

I gave up arguing when he said that form 4 years ago was important or relevant. After that, what's the point?

[Big D]

Aye Hartley would be way down my pecking order.

Don't think Best has been that bad tbh.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Aye Hartley would be way down my pecking order.

Don't think Best has been that bad tbh.

Couple of dodgy line out throws is about the height of it.

[whatisthejava]

Most sensible Lions selection so far

Would argue some players have really not done enough

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/ ... ions-next/

J Davis, Falateau, Henshaw are three that have not done enough for me

Good to see Ken Owens get recognised for a good 6N

Although i think F Brown, R Gray, Barclay are all a bit unlucky

12 English
8 welsh
11 irish
6 scots

Still think we are slightly unrepresented considering we are ranked higher than Wales

Mind u i think Jones would have made it if not injured

[hugh_woatmeigh]

Most sensible Lions selection so far

Would argue some players have really not done enough

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/ ... ions-next/

J Davis, Falateau, Henshaw are three that have not done enough for me

Good to see Ken Owens get recognised for a good 6N

Although i think F Brown, R Gray, Barclay are all a bit unlucky

12 English
8 welsh
11 irish
6 scots

Still think we are slightly unrepresented considering we are ranked higher than Wales

Mind u i think Jones would have made it if not injured

I think some of this board are in denial about the impact that England performance is going to have on selection. We will be incredibly lucky to take 6.

[whatisthejava]

Most sensible Lions selection so far

Would argue some players have really not done enough

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/ ... ions-next/

J Davis, Falateau, Henshaw are three that have not done enough for me

Good to see Ken Owens get recognised for a good 6N

Although i think F Brown, R Gray, Barclay are all a bit unlucky

12 English
8 welsh
11 irish
6 scots

Still think we are slightly unrepresented considering we are ranked higher than Wales

Mind u i think Jones would have made it if not injured

I think some of this board are in denial about the impact that England performance is going to have on selection. We will be incredibly lucky to take 6.

Yeah you could be right, it could easily be 1, i think you also have to consider the coaches will have knowledge of certain players and will want to push their players forward, without a Scottish representation on the coaching team the players really do have to be ahead of everyone else to stand a chance.

Its not bias from the coaches pov, because they know certain players and want the best for their players and while i think a lions tour would be good for certain Scots, going down south and beating the Ozzies would also be a brilliant way to start of Toonies time with Scotland.



On a sperate note does anyone think with the coaches that have been picked that the Lions are going down to out score the all blacks, i personally think the reason Ireland won against the All blacks is because they consistantly put the all blacks under pressure and never gave up the pursuit for tries, i think with the lions and the coaching team the phrase, keep it tight and kick the penalties will be a running mantra.

That mantra doesnt really suit the way Russel or Scotland play so there really isnt a need to take these players on tour.

[whatisthejava]

BBC showing a pic of Gatland with the headline Lions must go all out attacking

And then underneath explain someone else said it and not the Lions coach

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04ybryd

[Digby]

Gats does seem to think attack means a powerful defence so it wouldn't be an obvious quote from him