1872 Cup Champions

[Jps]

*The Edinburgh pack at times have been missing including several at the same time; Ford, Dickinson, Nel, Sutherland, Dell, Cosgrove, Berghan, Bresler, Gilchrist, McKenzie, Hardie, Manu and Watson who could all be involved in match day 23's and then the likes of Fihaki and Mata who have missed a few games.

Even in those two games they lost close at home, I was impressed with the forward pack, especially at scrum time. McCallum has proven a worhty understudy for Nel, and with Nel signing back for three years, I think it's a great chance for him to continue to learn. In fact, shorn of 4 of their first and second choice props, I feel like the Edinburgh pack has been not bad at all.

Lewis Carmichael has also been a nice addition, but it's a question of does he end up as a big 6 or a lock.

[switchskier]

Hastings is nowhere near ready to be starting every week in the games I have seen so he wasn't (IMO) a solution for Edinburgh as a starter. Which then becomes a decision of where is he better benching with the odd start at Glasgow or Edinburgh. There is also a more strategic point, if he is to be Finns challenger/successor he needs to be put where it is best for him. JO'H looks to be a good backs coach so on many levels Glasgow is the best spot.

I actually think a steady 9 who can consistently get the ball into Weir hands at a normal level rather than high or low would be my priority. I still believe Weir can do a job for Edinburgh over the next year or two but any 10 needs better play from 9. Will Weir starting take Edinburgh to the play offs? No I don't believe so, but he can help get Edinburgh on an upward trajectory IMO. If Weir had a steady forward pack* and consistent play from 9 he'll do a job for a year or two IMO. I would be looking to bring in a 10 to challenge him, but a senior 9 would be my priority out of the 2.


*The Edinburgh pack at times have been missing including several at the same time; Ford, Dickinson, Nel, Sutherland, Dell, Cosgrove, Berghan, Bresler, Gilchrist, McKenzie, Hardie, Manu and Watson who could all be involved in match day 23's and then the likes of Fihaki and Mata who have missed a few games.

Got to agree with all of this. Let's concentrate on making the players that we have better rather than constantly searching for the next saviour. Rather than worrying about any new signings I'd be delighted to hear about a backs coach for next year.

[Big D]

*The Edinburgh pack at times have been missing including several at the same time; Ford, Dickinson, Nel, Sutherland, Dell, Cosgrove, Berghan, Bresler, Gilchrist, McKenzie, Hardie, Manu and Watson who could all be involved in match day 23's and then the likes of Fihaki and Mata who have missed a few games.

Even in those two games they lost close at home, I was impressed with the forward pack, especially at scrum time. McCallum has proven a worhty understudy for Nel, and with Nel signing back for three years, I think it's a great chance for him to continue to learn. In fact, shorn of 4 of their first and second choice props, I feel like the Edinburgh pack has been not bad at all.

Lewis Carmichael has also been a nice addition, but it's a question of does he end up as a big 6 or a lock.

They have done an ok job as a group. McCallum has stood out. Those 2 games were in bad conditions too. The forward back in general has been inconsistent all year though IMO.

But for most of the season Weir and Tovey have had inconsistent play from the 9s who in turn for most of the season have missed Nel, Dickinson, Sutherland, Bresler and Manu in the forward pack. That is 4 from a 1st choice 8 and 5 from a 1st choice 23. All of which makes it harder for the 10.

Hopefully there is a run of without the grouping of important players being injured next year.

[Tobylerone]

*Hopefully there is a run of without the grouping of important players being injured next year.

Nice thought..

[hugh_woatmeigh]

First of all, fantastic news re Nel. I hope he will be well looked after (Dickinson too).

Back to the fly half question... JPS has a point - Edinburgh have very little interest in developing a fly half given how many they have discarded over the years.

If Edinburgh were serious about the transition into a top team they'd be looking to start blooding Kinghorn at 10 while Bryce plays 15 until Graham is ready to slot in there. They will get nowhere with Weir.

[whatisthejava]

First of all, fantastic news re Nel. I hope he will be well looked after (Dickinson too).

Back to the fly half question... JPS has a point - Edinburgh have very little interest in developing a fly half given how many they have discarded over the years.

If Edinburgh were serious about the transition into a top team they'd be looking to start blooding Kinghorn at 10 while Bryce plays 15 until Graham is ready to slot in there. They will get nowhere with Weir.

Do u not think we need Kinghorn at 15 as backup to Hogg, sooner or later Hogg will be injured and as we saw apart Murchie and Kinghorm the cupboard is bare

[Cameo]

Yeah although arguably with Maitland and possibly Seymour as well as Graham coming up, we have more cover there than at 10. I think we should play Kinghorn wherever he'll turn into the best player. If we then need to move him around, we can try that.

[Big D]

First of all, fantastic news re Nel. I hope he will be well looked after (Dickinson too).

Back to the fly half question... JPS has a point - Edinburgh have very little interest in developing a fly half given how many they have discarded over the years.

Other than Francis who was poor at Edinburgh, none have gone on to do anything of note either. Player development has been a big issue under Solomons but since WCP left:
Laidlaw - reasonable at 10
Leonard - Dropped out of reasonable level pro rugby
Francis - Went back to NZ worked hard under good coaching and played well with good players.
Bezuidenhout - Bang average at best
Heathcote - Signed basically because he was Scottish and had a couple of good games for Bath. Now can't get a look in at Worcester (although he may be injured)
Tonks - Never a 10 IMO.
Te Rure - Went back to obscurity.
Theres the lad for Gala too.

Perhaps the issue is talent identification as well as coaching.

[Big D]

First of all, fantastic news re Nel. I hope he will be well looked after (Dickinson too).

Back to the fly half question... JPS has a point - Edinburgh have very little interest in developing a fly half given how many they have discarded over the years.

If Edinburgh were serious about the transition into a top team they'd be looking to start blooding Kinghorn at 10 while Bryce plays 15 until Graham is ready to slot in there. They will get nowhere with Weir.

Do u not think we need Kinghorn at 15 as backup to Hogg, sooner or later Hogg will be injured and as we saw apart Murchie and Kinghorm the cupboard is bare

Kinghorn has always been a 15 who can cover 10. Only played 10 at school and U18s because the kid at full back was good. Melvin-Farr at 15/Kinghorn at 10 was better than Kinghorn at 15 and the alternatives at 10.

At U20 he has consistently only been used at 10 when rotation has been forced on the team either through player being pulled from international duty.

He has been head and shoulders above Bryce this year to the point Bryce got punted to the 7s. We need to learn the lesson of Mossy and play the kid in his best position. If that means eventually we need to bring in a 10 so be it.

[Big D]

Yeah although arguably with Maitland and possibly Seymour as well as Graham coming up, we have more cover there than at 10. I think we should play Kinghorn wherever he'll turn into the best player. If we then need to move him around, we can try that.

I've never been sold on Maitland at full back. He has never been as convincing there as he is on the wing.

Given moving Seymour there moves him from the wing I'd always play Kinghorn there/Seymour on the wing if it came to it.

Graham has thus far only shown he has potential. Kinghorn has tailed off a bit but has been excellent in some games (Quins at home stands out).

My worry with Kinghorn (and Bradbury) is the second season blues.

[Mikey Brown]

I've thought for a while Maitland is more effective at 15. He doesn't seem quit eebough of a threat with the ball to play wing but is a pretty solid all rounder now and quite good positionally.

[hugh_woatmeigh]

First of all, fantastic news re Nel. I hope he will be well looked after (Dickinson too).

Back to the fly half question... JPS has a point - Edinburgh have very little interest in developing a fly half given how many they have discarded over the years.

Other than Francis who was poor at Edinburgh, none have gone on to do anything of note either. Player development has been a big issue under Solomons but since WCP left:
Laidlaw - reasonable at 10
Leonard - Dropped out of reasonable level pro rugby
Francis - Went back to NZ worked hard under good coaching and played well with good players.
Bezuidenhout - Bang average at best
Heathcote - Signed basically because he was Scottish and had a couple of good games for Bath. Now can't get a look in at Worcester (although he may be injured)
Tonks - Never a 10 IMO.
Te Rure - Went back to obscurity.
Theres the lad for Gala too.

Perhaps the issue is talent identification as well as coaching.

Why are you starting the cut-off from Godman leaving? I consider Godman part of the problem. There's also Rory Hutton...

I honestly can't remember the last time Edinburgh had a decent 10 ? Have they ever? Will you have to go back to the Hodge days? I appreciate they tried to address the issue years ago by signing Larkham which fell through but it their track record is absolutely woeful.

[Big D]

First of all, fantastic news re Nel. I hope he will be well looked after (Dickinson too).

Back to the fly half question... JPS has a point - Edinburgh have very little interest in developing a fly half given how many they have discarded over the years.

Other than Francis who was poor at Edinburgh, none have gone on to do anything of note either. Player development has been a big issue under Solomons but since WCP left:
Laidlaw - reasonable at 10
Leonard - Dropped out of reasonable level pro rugby
Francis - Went back to NZ worked hard under good coaching and played well with good players.
Bezuidenhout - Bang average at best
Heathcote - Signed basically because he was Scottish and had a couple of good games for Bath. Now can't get a look in at Worcester (although he may be injured)
Tonks - Never a 10 IMO.
Te Rure - Went back to obscurity.
Theres the lad for Gala too.

Perhaps the issue is talent identification as well as coaching.

Why are you starting the cut-off from Godman leaving? I consider Godman part of the problem. There's also Rory Hutton...

I honestly can't remember the last time Edinburgh had a decent 10 ? Have they ever? Will you have to go back to the Hodge days? I appreciate they tried to address the issue years ago by signing Larkham which fell through but it their track record is absolutely woeful.

Because I couldn't be arsed gong further back. Hutton and Hunter are both decent Prem 1 level XV a side players. I was more trying to highlight that it was not just Solomons and it may not just be coaching. There is a long line of 10's come and gone and talent identification has been an issue too. They don't seem to want to try, or can't attract good to high level talent in the position since the Larkham debacle.

I'd also suggest they need to look outside of SQ players and better NSQ players than Francis (at the time) and Bezuidenhout.

Before Russell (and he is inconsistent at times) when was the last time we had a better than decent consistent Scottish 10? Townsend (far from consistent himself) didn't even play 10 for us the year he was the Lions 10 he played at 13 IIRC.

There has been a long line of average or slightly better than average 10's get capped in the last 20 or so years. I wouldn't even call the steady eddie types of 10 Scotland have had (Parks, Hodge etc) as more than slightly better than average.

[whatisthejava]

RE Mossy
When i did my UKCC coaching we talked about Mossy, basically the feeling at the SRU was mossy had to take the ball into his chest to pass and therefore was to slow getting the ball across his body.
Alot has changed at coaching level and basically all coaches are told to try and prevent bad habits from day 1, we are constantly told to focus time on teaching kids how to catch and pass without taking it into the chest.

While there may have been more to it than that, it seems to be the reason why multiple coaches preferred him at 15.


RE WCP
-Hodge was as bad as WCP if not more

Basically alot of our problems in the last 20 years has been abysmal coaching and an emphasis on bulk over skill, the switch in the last few years has been remarkable and some of the coaching material available is top class to all coaches in Scotland.

[Cameo]

WCP is a funny one. I think his standout talents just werent that standout once he was at the top level. However, had some very good spells for Edinburgh and if you surrounded him with some of the talent available in the backs now he might look a lot better

[Spiffy]

Yeah although arguably with Maitland and possibly Seymour as well as Graham coming up, we have more cover there than at 10. I think we should play Kinghorn wherever he'll turn into the best player. If we then need to move him around, we can try that.

I've never been sold on Maitland at full back. He has never been as convincing there as he is on the wing.

Given moving Seymour there moves him from the wing I'd always play Kinghorn there/Seymour on the wing if it came to it.

Graham has thus far only shown he has potential. Kinghorn has tailed off a bit but has been excellent in some games (Quins at home stands out).

My worry with Kinghorn (and Bradbury) is the second season blues.

Maitland is quite a big bloke, and fast, but I've always felt there is something a little soft about him.
Kinghorn has bags of potential and is still only a kid. He will develop into something special. He has the X factor.

[ARM]

Embra regressing.

Hoyland demonstrating once again that he is a bomb scare in defence. Miles away from Test rugby.

[Cameo]

This is pretty bleak. They need to clear out all the coaches for next year. Even if individually some of them are okay, this team needs a complete fresh start

[Cameo]

I dont think scarlets are even playing that well

[Adder]

Very poor game from both team. Edinburgh needs a leader in the backs.

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[Adder]

SHC's passing is slightly off which puts pressure on Weir who...

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[Cameo]

I think they need a whole summer of passing practise too. So many passes just drifting away from the receiver or dipping as they get to the man

[Adder]

I know we are terrible and we are very lucky to be so cloae, but John Lacey pisses me off.

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[ARM]

Low quality game.

I just can't see any structure to Embras game.

[Adder]

Low quality game.

I just can't see any structure to Embras game.

And Fowles is now on.

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