Statistic of the Day

[Lizard]

This is a real person:

https://www.simpsongrierson.com/people/earl-gray

[rowan]

There’s a bit of talk about Jordie Barrett joining his brothers Beauden and Scott as All Blacks.

There have been three sets of three brothers to become All Blacks, but of them there’s only one set in which all three were capped in test matches. Three brothers have never appeared together for the All Blacks in the same match (test or uncapped).

Whitelock
George obtained his solitary All Blacks jersey, cap and try off the bench against Italy in 2009. The following year, Sam won the first of his 84 caps to date. Luke had a single appearance off the bench v Japan in 2013, in a match not featuring Sam.

Nichols
Harry “Ginger” Nichols had an odd career. His first All Black’s match was in the first Springboks test in 1921 in which he played so well the selectors literally gave him a medal as the best back. However he was replaced for the 2nd test and was never capped again, despite touring NSW with the All Blacks in 1922 and facing them at home in 1923. (Ironically, his four matches v NSW are now regarded by Australia as tests with caps awarded retrospectively). Marcus Nicholls debuted alongside Harry in 1921. His career was far more distinguished including 10 tests and 41 other matches (3 with Harry) including the Invincibles tour in 1924-4, 1928 tour to SA and the 1930 Lions. Oldest brother Harold Nichols (known as Doc) played with Ginger in a single match against NSW in 1923 (again, regarded by the ARU as a test)

Brownlie
The youngest brother, Jack, debuted (and bowed out) in 1921 against one the bullshit NSW teams later capped as Wallabies. Maurice was first picked against the same oppo in 1922 and went on to be an Invincible and 1928 tourist, earning 8 caps and playing 53 other matches. Eldest brother Cyril was first picked in warm-up/trial games in 1924 ahead of the Invincibles tour (on which he became the first player to be sent off in a test). He too played through until the 1928 African tour and picked up 3 caps (all with Maurice) and 28 match jumpers (19 with Maurice) on the way.

Fascinating read, Lizard. I've read all the old almanacs and so on, but you managed to come up with a couple of snippets I wasn't aware of before. Off the top of my head I'd say the last set of 3 brothers who got close would've been the Brookes in the 90s, with Zinny, Robin and Marty. The latter never quite made it into the All Blacks though, despite being a member of the all-conquering provincial team and representing NZ Maori. Any others?

[Lizard]

I'm not sure how close Doug, Brian or Graeme Clarke came to being All Blacks like Don and Ian, but all 5 played for Waikato (all at the same time, once).

[rowan]

Yes, I knew about the Clarkes. I met Ian Clarke just before the All Blacks played Wales in the inagural World Cup and he told me they were going to win by 50 points. I laughed into his face and said they would win, for sure, but never by that much.

& I was right

[Lizard]

There's at least one test All Black with two brothers who also played test rugby. Rodney So'oialo's brothers James and Steven were both capped for Samoa.

[rowan]

Manu Tuilagi is the younger brother of Henry Tuilagi, Freddie Tuilagi, Alesana Tuilagi, Anitelea Tuilagi and Sanele Vavae Tuilagi, all of whom are Samoan internationals. He has another brother, born Olotuli, who is fa'afafine and goes by the name of Julie.

[Lizard]

There's a set of brothers, 1 capped for Samoa, 1 for Japan and 2 for NZ:

Graeme and Stephen Bachop.

Their nephews Aaron and Nathan Mauger were also All Blacks

[rowan]

Updated union budgets:


- England: 407 M£ - 470 M€ (2015-2016 season) / 207.9 M£ - 240 M€ (2014-2015 season) - RFU Website
- France: 119 M€ (2015-2016 season) - FFR Website
- New Zealand: 134.3 MNZ$ - 87.3 M€ (2015) - All Blacks Website
- Wales: 73.3 M£ - 84.6 M€ (2016) - WRU Website
- South Africa: 967 MR - 71.9 M€ (2015) - SARU Website
- Ireland: 71 M€ (2015-2016 season) - IRFU Website
- Australia: 78.5 MA$ - 55.4 M€ (2015) - ARU
- Scotland: 47.4 M£ - 54.7 M€ (2015-2016 season) - SRU Website
- Italy: 47.2 M€ (2016) - FIR Website
- Argentina: 20 M$ - 18.5 M€
- United States: 12.4 M$ - 11.5 M€ (2015) - USA Rugby Website
- Canada: 15 MC$ - 10.4 M€
- Georgia: 9 M€ (2016) - GRU Website (not totally sure because I saw figures in lari, dollars and pounds)
- Brasil: 21 MR$ - 6 M€ (2016) - Brasil Rugby Website
- Spain: 4 M€ (2016) - FER Website
- Romania: 16.4 ML - 3.8 M€ (2015)
- Uruguay: 3 M$ - 2.8 M€ (2015)
- Portugal: 1.4 M€ (2017) - Interview to its president
- Germany: 1.2 M€ (2015-2016 season)
- Netherlands: 1.2 M€ - According to FPR president
- Russia: 0.5-1 M€
- Zimbabwe: 0.5 M€

[Lizard]

A global game?

The assumption is usually made that soccer is more “global” than football. If you measure by number of fans and participation by country that is probably true. There is also much wailing and gnashing of teeth that Rugby Union is failing to assist non-traditional rugby countries to move towards the top echelon.

FIFA has recently determined that there is sufficient depth for its World Cup to include 48 sides. WR limits its marquee event to 20. Both bodies officially rank their members. If you take the top 48 soccer teams, and the top 20 rugby teams, you get the following regional representation:

Europe: FIFA 54%; WR 50%
Africa: FIFA 19%; WR 10%
Sth America: FIFA 17%; WR 5%
Nth/Cent. America: FIFA 6%, WR 5%
Asia: FIFA 4%; WR 5%*
Oceania: FIFA 0%; WR 25%*

So both codes are overwhelmingly Euro-centric. Soccer perhaps can claim the lead by having two secondary regions in Africa and South America, whereas rugby just has Oceania.

FIFA considers Aussie to be Asian, WR says it is Oceaniac. WR did it FIFA’s way, it’s figures would be Asia 10%; Oceania: 20%.

[rowan]

I've never really seen the point in an Oceania group for football. It should just be regarded as an Asian sub-group, the way the Caribbean is regarded as a sub-group of CONCACAF. I think it was that way until Oceania took the combined region's only berth at the finals in 74, then one of its two berths again in 82. The Asians were not happy with that, of course.

But the way forward in rugby should be to combine them. We now have Japan coming through and playing in regular tournaments with Pacific nations on an equal footing. That's a great basis for Asia-Oceania competition. I really think they should set up a 6 Nations now that the Americas have done so, and thereby scuttled the PNC, it appears. That way we could help bring a couple more Asian teams like Hong Kong & Korea up to speed.

[rowan]

Manu Tuilagi is the younger brother of Henry Tuilagi, Freddie Tuilagi, Alesana Tuilagi, Anitelea Tuilagi and Sanele Vavae Tuilagi, all of whom are Samoan internationals. He has another brother, born Olotuli, who is fa'afafine and goes by the name of Julie.

Lebanon has three brothers in the front row at the Asian Division 3 West championships, which will conclude today when they face hosts Uzbekistan in the final. Only one is in the starting XV, however. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8OTmxPVoAA3VTA.jpg

Update: Ended in a draw - see Global Results Thread on the General Rugby forum . . .

[Lizard]

These comparisons probably mean nothing, and some will certainly be out of date by the time the tour rolls around.

World Rankings
1 June 2013: Australia 3 (86.87 pts) , England 4 (83.72), Wales 5 (83.36), Ireland 9 (78.05), Scotland 10 (76.86) - Lions av. 7.0 (80.50)
Now: NZ 1 (94.78 pts) , England 2 (89.53), Ireland 4 (84.66), Scotland 5 (82.18), Wales 8 (81.36) - Lions av. 4.75 (84.43)

Home Nations have all improved bar Wales. Average placing is 3.75 places (and 10.35 points) behind NZ compared to 4 places (and 6.37 points) behind the host in 2013.

Most recent RWC
2011: Australia 3rd, Wales 4th, Ireland QF, England QF, Scotland 3rd in pool
2015: NZ first, Ireland QF, Scotland QF, Wales QF, England 3rd in pool

Slight decline in this result by the Lions side, but England are a different side now.

Super Rugby standings*
2013 (final): Brumbies 4th, Reds 5th, Waratahs 9th, Rebels 12, Force 13th (Av. 8.6/15 = 43rd percentile)
2017 (to date): Crusaders 1, Chiefs 2**, Hurricanes 5**, Blues 8th, Highlanders 9th (av. 5.0/18 = 72nd percentile)

*This is not strictly apples with apples. 2013 was a 3-conference, 15-team comp. 2017 is 4-conf, 18-teams. I’ve ignored the automatic qualification of conference winners and playoff results, and simply ranked teams by overall competition points.

**with 1 game in hand

[Lizard]

The last Lions team to beat the All Blacks (2nd test, 1993) was made up of:

12 Englishman (1 as a reserve)
2 Welshmen
1 Scotsman
1 Irishman

Unused reserves were 2 Welsh, 2 Scottish, 1 English

[rowan]

The last (and only) time the Lions won a series against NZ Pinetree Meads was in the All Blacks team . . .

[rowan]

Of their 38 encounters with the All Blacks, played over 11 tours dating back to 1904, the Lions have managed to win precisely 6.

[Lizard]

Meads is the only All Black to face the Lions in tests across 3 seperate tours (11 tests 1959, 1966 and 1971). With the modern 12 year cycle that will never be equalled. Even 2 would be a stretch.

[rowan]

& currently fighting off cancer. He was supposed to have died years ago - but just reached 80. Good luck to him!

[rowan]

Manu Tuilagi is the younger brother of Henry Tuilagi, Freddie Tuilagi, Alesana Tuilagi, Anitelea Tuilagi and Sanele Vavae Tuilagi, all of whom are Samoan internationals. He has another brother, born Olotuli, who is fa'afafine and goes by the name of Julie.

Lebanon has three brothers in the front row at the Asian Division 3 West championships, which will conclude today when they face hosts Uzbekistan in the final. Only one is in the starting XV, however. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8OTmxPVoAA3VTA.jpg

Update: Ended in a draw - see Global Results Thread on the General Rugby forum . . .

& there's this:

[rowan]

According to Wiki, the best average attendances at club sports competitions around the world are as follows:

NFL 68K, Bundesliga 43K, Premiership 36K, Aussie Rules 33K, Indian cricket 32K, Aussie cricket 30K, MLB 30K, Japanese baseball 30K, La Liga 28K, Mexican Liga 27K, Indian soccer 26K, Chinese soccer 24K, Canadian NFL 24K, Serie A 22K, Bangladesh cricket 21K, MLS 21K, Argie soccer 21K, French soccer 21K, Super Rugby 19K, Dutch soccer 19K, J-League 17K, Brazil soccer 17K, NRL 17K, NBA 17K, NHL 17K, Top 14 13K, Aviva Rugby 13K, Aussie soccer 12K, Belgian soccer 12K, Currie Cup 11K, Korean baseball 11K, Russian soccer 11K, Portuguese soccer 10K, Swiss soccer 10K.

Who would've thought Indian & Chinese soccer would be drawing more fans than Brazilian soccer

Swedish, Scottish, Saudi, Iranian & Indo soccer leagues all follow at around 9K, along with Mexican baseball, while Pro 12 Rugby, UK rugby league, Caribbean cricket, and Colombian, Polish & Turkish soccer average approx. 8K. NZ provincial rugby gets about 7K attendances, as do Korean & Vietnamese soccer, as well as Polish speedway. Japanese rugby averages around 6K, in common with Danish, Malaysian Uzbek, South African, Norwegian, Austrian, Israeli, Thai, Moroccan, Bolivian and Ukranian soccer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_a ... ts_leagues

[rowan]

Super Rugby stands out among that lot with by far the most excessive travel requirements. Just imagine how much more profitable Dutch soccer must be with all games no more than a bus ride away! I also suspect there's something fundamentally wrong with those stats - or at least misleading. A lot of sports competitions aren't there that should be - English, Pakistani, Sri Lankan and SA cricket, for example, along with soccer in various other European & Latin American nations. Meanwhile, Istanbul's 3 major soccer clubs probably average over 30K per home game, while some of the other cities invariably draw sell-outs, so I find it difficult to believe the national league average is only 8K. Anyway, that's according to Wiki.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Super Rugby stands out among that lot with by far the most excessive travel requirements. Just imagine how much more profitable Dutch soccer must be with all games no more than a bus ride away! I also suspect there's something fundamentally wrong with those stats - or at least misleading. A lot of sports competitions aren't there that should be - English, Pakistani, Sri Lankan and SA cricket, for example, along with soccer in various other European & Latin American nations. Meanwhile, Istanbul's 3 major soccer clubs probably average over 30K per home game, while some of the other cities invariably draw sell-outs, so I find it difficult to believe the national league average is only 8K. Anyway, that's according to Wiki.

County championship cricket draws about 5 men and a dog. 20/20 attracts bigger numbers obviously.

[rowan]

Really? Still, I'd have thought Pakistan and Sri Lanka would pack them in, given cricket is the main sport in those countries.

Another thing that stands out is how over-stretched the Australian market appears. Aussie Rules crowds are phenomenal, given most of those games will actually involve teams from within the same city. It must be easily the most successful (primarily) inter-suburban sports competition in the world. But does that leave room for rugby union, especially as league has already gained a foothold there (probably the main reason union is interested in Melbourne)? Victoria is also the hub of the Australasian soccer league as well, if I'm not mistaken; with its sizable Mediterranean/Balkans immigrant communities. Union has a better chance of developing a loyal following on the West Coast, where South Africans are among the major immigrant populations.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

I'm unaware of the Pakistan and Sri Lanka entries in the County Championship.

[canta_brian]

I'm unaware of the Pakistan and Sri Lanka entries in the County Championship.

Sussex V Punjab at Brighton this weekend

[Mr Mwenda]

Hove, actually.