EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

[Banquo]

I thought Faletau was decent though ...

just quiet, he usually manages omnipresence. Read was superb given how little he has played

[Banquo]

Overall Lions had their moments but the NZ attacking game asks so many questions that one never felt the Lions could hold them out. SOB's try was great, though. Odd to reflect that where we thought we would really be bettered - centre and back 3 - we looked OK, yet our much vaunted pack really didnt step up at all.

wings defence was exposed for two of the tries-and Williams dropped a sitter for the third followed by Ioane out-gassing both wings- but a function of system breaking down a bit. Mixed, to be honest- but looked very handy with the ball.

[Banquo]

I don't know where the Lions can go given the twin aims of Gatball and the Farrell inspired rush defence. Maybe shunt SOB to 8 and bring in Warbs or Tips, or even both. They'd maybe consider Stander to try and win some collisions. And Lawes would add an edge to the defence plays they're likely to continue making.

Faletau was strangely anonymous, really rate him. Would have been interesting to see Billy out there.

Breakdown is a big issue, and can't see that changing overly. Stopping the offload at the tackle line. Keeping up the pressure at the lineout and stop with the easy turnovers. Not much then

The Lions comprehensively lost the breakdown battle, but Peyper let the AB's go straight off their feet in almost every ruck.

That said, I couldn't believe how poor we were at supporting the ball carrier. I lost count of the amount of times players went on their own and got turned-over or pinged for holding on. It was truly schoolboy stuff in that regard.

Indeed, pointed it out on the Lions fred. Kruis and George both made nice gainline moves, but their buddies stood and watched. Similarly, Teo was getting well over the tackle line, looking for an offload and no-one there.

[twitchy]

Faletau was strangely anonymous, really rate him. Would have been interesting to see Billy out there.

Breakdown is a big issue, and can't see that changing overly. Stopping the offload at the tackle line. Keeping up the pressure at the lineout and stop with the easy turnovers. Not much then

The Lions comprehensively lost the breakdown battle, but Peyper let the AB's go straight off their feet in almost every ruck.

That said, I couldn't believe how poor we were at supporting the ball carrier. I lost count of the amount of times players went on their own and got turned-over or pinged for holding on. It was truly schoolboy stuff in that regard.

Indeed, pointed it out on the Lions fred. Kruis and George both made nice gainline moves, but their buddies stood and watched. Similarly, Teo was getting well over the tackle line, looking for an offload and no-one there.

To me this just highlights the failings of the lions concept (I know, I know). It's sold as the pinnacle of rugby or what ever but it's just a load of names shoved together with minimal preparation who don't have any chemistry.

They are always going to be less then the sum of their parts.

[Scrumhead]

Kind of, but supporting the ball carrier is pretty basic stuff.

Against NZ, you know they will turn you over unless you make it difficult for them. The Lions made it easy.

[p/d]

Thought Te'o unlucky on the SBW tackle (cracking hit in my book) then he whacked Cane with another good hit.

[Banquo]

Thought Te'o unlucky on the SBW tackle (cracking hit in my book) then he whacked Cane with another good hit.

indeed. Shame he's probably going to be past his best come the world cup, unless he has Frank Bunce genes.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

From what I've seen (and IIRC) positioning issues, hesitancy as if he's second guessing himself, and occasionally being waved into the right position by Brown/Joseph.
I don't claim enough knowledge on wing play to know about (or look for) things like running lines, ball in which hand etc I would suspect it comes under right decision, minimally delayed.

ETA: oh, and checking to see if there's an airborne defender in the space he's running into

This seems to be no longer considered a thing. The number of Test wings who get it wrong is staggering.

Was it ever a thing? Some do swap hands, some don't, it doesn't seem much changed

Was defintiely a thing when I were a lad. The key is to tuck and carry under the correct arm rather than swap whilst running - swapping slows you down. I remember practising it and I was a schoolboy.

[Doorzetbornandbred]

Thought Te'o unlucky on the SBW tackle (cracking hit in my book) then he whacked Cane with another good hit.

indeed. Shame he's probably going to be past his best come the world cup, unless he has Frank Bunce genes.

Frank might be his dad for all we know...

[Digby]

This seems to be no longer considered a thing. The number of Test wings who get it wrong is staggering.

Was it ever a thing? Some do swap hands, some don't, it doesn't seem much changed

Was defintiely a thing when I were a lad. The key is to tuck and carry under the correct arm rather than swap whilst running - swapping slows you down. I remember practising it and I was a schoolboy.

It's still worked on now. But people are still going to pick the best winger overall, not the one who simply carries the ball correctly

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Was it ever a thing? Some do swap hands, some don't, it doesn't seem much changed

Was defintiely a thing when I were a lad. The key is to tuck and carry under the correct arm rather than swap whilst running - swapping slows you down. I remember practising it and I was a schoolboy.

It's still worked on now. But people are still going to pick the best winger overall, not the one who simply carries the ball correctly

Of course. But I find it surprising that a professional player wouldn't fix something so obvious.

[Digby]

Was defintiely a thing when I were a lad. The key is to tuck and carry under the correct arm rather than swap whilst running - swapping slows you down. I remember practising it and I was a schoolboy.

It's still worked on now. But people are still going to pick the best winger overall, not the one who simply carries the ball correctly

Of course. But I find it surprising that a professional player wouldn't fix something so obvious.

I'd prefer to see them run on instinct than be thinking about which arm to carry with, though ideally they would progress their skill set. Given the number who don't carry the ball correctly it suggests it's not a simple act to correct

[Eugene Wrayburn]

It's still worked on now. But people are still going to pick the best winger overall, not the one who simply carries the ball correctly

Of course. But I find it surprising that a professional player wouldn't fix something so obvious.

I'd prefer to see them run on instinct than be thinking about which arm to carry with, though ideally they would progress their skill set. Given the number who don't carry the ball correctly it suggests it's not a simple act to correct

they shouldn't have to think about it. It's incredibly easy to correct or I was unusually adept and I know which of those I'm plumping for.

[Cameo]

I presume you are saying that they should carry it in the outer hand? I think some prefer it on the inside when they are going for the corner. It makes some of the spectacular flying finishes possible

[Banquo]

Of course. But I find it surprising that a professional player wouldn't fix something so obvious.

I'd prefer to see them run on instinct than be thinking about which arm to carry with, though ideally they would progress their skill set. Given the number who don't carry the ball correctly it suggests it's not a simple act to correct

they shouldn't have to think about it. It's incredibly easy to correct or I was unusually adept and I know which of those I'm plumping for.

agreed

[Digby]

Of course. But I find it surprising that a professional player wouldn't fix something so obvious.

I'd prefer to see them run on instinct than be thinking about which arm to carry with, though ideally they would progress their skill set. Given the number who don't carry the ball correctly it suggests it's not a simple act to correct

they shouldn't have to think about it. It's incredibly easy to correct or I was unusually adept and I know which of those I'm plumping for.

I think if the current crop played at the same pace of game as your schoolboy level they'd have no problem remembering to switch which arm they use. But once put under pressure there does rather seem to be a split between those who naturally move the ball, and those who have a significant bias.

I'm sure part of it is in learned behaviour, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of it is more inherited behaviour too.

[Spiffy]

Overall Lions had their moments but the NZ attacking game asks so many questions that one never felt the Lions could hold them out. SOB's try was great, though. Odd to reflect that where we thought we would really be bettered - centre and back 3 - we looked OK, yet our much vaunted pack really didnt step up at all.

wings defence was exposed for two of the tries-and Williams dropped a sitter for the third followed by Ioane out-gassing both wings- but a function of system breaking down a bit. Mixed, to be honest- but looked very handy with the ball.

Ioane and Daly looked just about matched for pace. For Ioane's second try it was clear that neither was gaining on the other. Daly's heel tap almost came off but Ioane's marginal head start on the outside after Williams dropped the ball was enough to swing it. The Lions back three did have a few shaky moments in defence but looked promising in attack. The Lions have to figure out how to get the ball in their hands with some space to operate. For most of the game they got man and ball and could do nothing, but still showed some good close quarters footwork. I'd like to see Joseph in midfield and Sexton at FH, but probably won't.
Deserved win by the great ABs but the Lions squandered at least three try-scoring chances by some sloppy play and lack of midfield pace.

[Digby]

Its interesting that Kruis has emerged as the shoo-in Lions lock, given the competition around him. I think he (and Phil Christophers obvs) is the only player p/d and I have agreed over as having international quality when we first saw him as a club player- really pleased he has fulfilled his potential after an iffy start v NZ, and doubts over his star quality.

Ha!! Was thinking exactly that whilst watching the lions on Saturday. Not sure Peat is yet convinced - and we know Oakboy has moved on from Launch over Kruis to Solomona is England's David Campese.

Clearly a skilled lineout operator but watching him controlling the driving maul is very Johnsonesque. Like you really pleased for the guy.

You two have gone off early again.

(luckily taking the pish now with two tests to go leaves no chance of looking a right prat)

[Banquo]

Overall Lions had their moments but the NZ attacking game asks so many questions that one never felt the Lions could hold them out. SOB's try was great, though. Odd to reflect that where we thought we would really be bettered - centre and back 3 - we looked OK, yet our much vaunted pack really didnt step up at all.

wings defence was exposed for two of the tries-and Williams dropped a sitter for the third followed by Ioane out-gassing both wings- but a function of system breaking down a bit. Mixed, to be honest- but looked very handy with the ball.

Ioane and Daly looked just about matched for pace. For Ioane's second try it was clear that neither was gaining on the other. Daly's heel tap almost came off but Ioane's marginal head start on the outside after Williams dropped the ball was enough to swing it. The Lions back three did have a few shaky moments in defence but looked promising in attack. The Lions have to figure out how to get the ball in their hands with some space to operate. For most of the game they got man and ball and could do nothing, but still showed some good close quarters footwork. I'd like to see Joseph in midfield and Sexton at FH, but probably won't.
Deserved win by the great ABs but the Lions squandered at least three try-scoring chances by some sloppy play and lack of midfield pace.

well yes, that's what I said . And I think Ioane quicker than Daly- he was both carrying the ball, which slows you, and Daly had a good angle, and he did him easily- Ioane is the quickest in the (quick) AB squad, so no shame.

[Banquo]

Its interesting that Kruis has emerged as the shoo-in Lions lock, given the competition around him. I think he (and Phil Christophers obvs) is the only player p/d and I have agreed over as having international quality when we first saw him as a club player- really pleased he has fulfilled his potential after an iffy start v NZ, and doubts over his star quality.

Ha!! Was thinking exactly that whilst watching the lions on Saturday. Not sure Peat is yet convinced - and we know Oakboy has moved on from Launch over Kruis to Solomona is England's David Campese.

Clearly a skilled lineout operator but watching him controlling the driving maul is very Johnsonesque. Like you really pleased for the guy.

You two have gone off early again.

(luckily taking the pish now with two tests to go leaves no chance of looking a right prat)

Kruis still ran the lineout well, though he lost the ball too easily in contact. As for looking a right prat, well....

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Ha!! Was thinking exactly that whilst watching the lions on Saturday. Not sure Peat is yet convinced - and we know Oakboy has moved on from Launch over Kruis to Solomona is England's David Campese.

Clearly a skilled lineout operator but watching him controlling the driving maul is very Johnsonesque. Like you really pleased for the guy.

You two have gone off early again.

(luckily taking the pish now with two tests to go leaves no chance of looking a right prat)

Kruis still ran the lineout well, though he lost the ball too easily in contact. As for looking a right prat, well....

Er didn't they get in front of our jumper twice? Or are we blaming the hooker?

[Banquo]

You two have gone off early again.

(luckily taking the pish now with two tests to go leaves no chance of looking a right prat)

Kruis still ran the lineout well, though he lost the ball too easily in contact. As for looking a right prat, well....

Er didn't they get in front of our jumper twice? Or are we blaming the hooker?

once I thought (13/14), and we pulled their lineout apart (8/13)- or are we blaming their hooker

Hard to dispute we had the better of the lineout, frankly, until it was too late. Mauling..different story.

[Digby]

Mauling..different story.

Contact work wasn't good from anyone today really, maul, tackles, ruck... it was all a bit nice.

There's a moment in the 23rd minute where Daly chases a box kick (so an unusual play) and the ball bobbles around with SOB managing to fall on it, and despite having the option of chasing our own kick Cane wins an easy pen with SOB forced to hold on.



And as I look at the moment before Cane gets over the ball and before Kruis can support SOB I'm looking at Kruis and how gentle he is with Daly. And maybe he should be nice, but for me Daly is in the way of a lock needing to clear out and in this moment Daly should be cleared out by the big lock which would come with the advantage of clearing out Cane too.

[Timbo]

Kruis still ran the lineout well, though he lost the ball too easily in contact. As for looking a right prat, well....

Er didn't they get in front of our jumper twice? Or are we blaming the hooker?

once I thought (13/14), and we pulled their lineout apart (8/13)- or are we blaming their hooker

Hard to dispute we had the better of the lineout, frankly, until it was too late. Mauling..different story.

I think the one lost lineout was Ken Owens first throw. I don't really get sending on a new hooker when his first action is going to be a crucial 5m lineout, but you see it happen all the time. I remember watching it and it seemed to me like Kruis was looking at Whitelock and thinking 'I'm well marked here' but before he could change the call the ball was thrown. Maybe George would have read Kruis better in that situation. Could be wrong but that's what it looked like to me.

[Banquo]

Mauling..different story.

Contact work wasn't good from anyone today really, maul, tackles, ruck... it was all a bit nice.

There's a moment in the 23rd minute where Daly chases a box kick (so an unusual play) and the ball bobbles around with SOB managing to fall on it, and despite having the option of chasing our own kick Cane wins an easy pen with SOB forced to hold on.



And as I look at the moment before Cane gets over the ball and before Kruis can support SOB I'm looking at Kruis and how gentle he is with Daly. And maybe he should be nice, but for me Daly is in the way of a lock needing to clear out and in this moment Daly should be cleared out by the big lock which would come with the advantage of clearing out Cane too.

i noticed that and wondered what Daly himself was thinking!