2nd Test Team

[baldilocks]

Also a genuine question here as I've seen very little of this tour, has Warburton actually done anything (to show he will offer what the pack/POM were missing) on this tour to earn the spot? Or his he just Gatlands guy? He was good in the Ireland game, but I can't really remember seeing him be truly effective for quite a while.

The team could certainly do with him at top form, but is that likely?

I'm sure Warburton himself said he was short of match fitness after the ankle injury and it'd take him a few games to get going. So with any luck he may find some form come the dead rubber

[kk67]

Has anyone ever been picked as captain and then dropped entirely for the next test before?

If they'd played shit I wouldn't have a problem,.....but POM has predicatively and effectively emptied the tank.
Him and Tadh have left nothing on the pitch.

[Banquo]

Has anyone ever been picked as captain and then dropped entirely for the next test before?

If they'd played shit I wouldn't have a problem,.....but POM has predicatively and effectively emptied the tank.

Its also quite odd that he has dropped two key components of one of the few areas of success.

[MrK]

Its also quite odd that he has dropped two key components of one of the few areas of success.

http://www.bloodandmud.com/2017/06/defe ... -test.html

[Banquo]

Its also quite odd that he has dropped two key components of one of the few areas of success.

http://www.bloodandmud.com/2017/06/defe ... -test.html

I'm not sure what point you are making unless you wrote the article . That article also defends selecting Owen Farrell at 12, so can be discounted on that alone ....and...and this is key...it has spelling mistakes.

My take is that AWJ was ineffective and is very lucky, and that Kruis did an excellent job in running both attacking and defensive lineouts...and a key jumper was POM. Its quite a call to dismantle an area where we dominated the kiwis is all I am saying; I do agree that if Kruis isn't starting, no point in having him on the bench though.

[Puja]

Another genuine question: Is this the same Owen Farrell that's played 12 in nearly every test England has played in the last two years, of which they have lost one?

The same one yes. I don't think you would need more than one hand to count the good games he has personally had in that time. Most England fans that are not related to him believe for England to improve and catch the Kiwis an upgrade at 12 is very much needed.

I've got no argument with any of that but it's fair to say that he's now a test 12, not a makeshift converted 10.

I'd actually have no problem with picking him at 12 outside of Ford or Russell - he's shown that he can be pretty effective as a second distributor with a creative threat inside him. However, Sexton doesn't have the game to draw men off Farrell and the Lions aren't playing the two lines offence that England do which makes them so effective (where Ford has the option to pop to a forward short, pass to a forward wide, go himself, or draw back to Farrell to go wide).

Conversely, Sexton's success for Ireland has always been with someone like Henshaw outside to carry the heavy load and also to play that little run-around ball that he loves so much. It works great for Ireland, as the defence is watching Henshaw thundering up and takes their eyes off Sexton looping round to create the overlap when Henshaw pops it off before contact.

So, basically, you could pick Farrell outside of Russell, or you could pick Sexton and pair him with Te'o. What you cannot (or, I guess "should not", because he just has) is pick Sexton and Farrell together, because both of them only bring their best when paired with a completely different option.

I can picture it now - Sexton passes to Farrell, loops round, takes the offload and then gets munched 5m back from the gainline because not a single AB was drawn by Farrell's pretend crash ball.

Puja