SA Side to Join PRO12

[ALunpg]

16 teams either leads to two leagues or reduction on the present 12 participating teams. It has been mentioned by other posters that Italian teams have not excelled since their arrival into the league and this would be an obvious action but is it the best outcome...who is to say it won't be a home nation team next.
I am at present stuck between the excitement of more demanding matches for our teams and players ...but concerned that there will be more financial pressure on teams and maybe imbalance ...for me that will not be a real opportunity to develop a greater depth in our resources.

[ALunpg]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... s-13338684

Not quite sure how much of this is truth ..normal WO drivel or just negative thinking..but it does show how much change to what fans will get next season...not just Welsh but Irish and Scottish derbies possibly threatened.

Financially it may be balanced by the extra sponser input ..but what about the everyday supporters it is them turning up that makes the atmosphere .....we will see hiw they vote with their feet either way.

[Lord Lucan]

Lots of gnashing of teeth in the comments section on the WOL site, about losing Welsh derbies, I actually find these derbies the most uninteresting fixtures, as I don't care who wins, I rarely watch them. Unless you come from Newport, Cardiff, Swansea or Llanelli, why should these games be of any interest?
When watching a game I need to want one side to win to take an interest in it, the derbies don't do it for me, be glad to see less of them myself.

[Lord Lucan]

Its early days yet, if they get the format wrong they can always change it next season, it will evolve I'm sure, obviously they are not going to be able to come up with the perfect format in a week or so.
Anything that can make this league more interesting gets the thumbs up from me, jettison the Italians, that would be a good move, let the French absorb them into their leagues and let them help these no hopers progress, we've tried and failed on that score.

[PoolerSaint]

Looking like this is happening & being officially announced tomorrow. £6million from the SA rugby union apparently with sponsorship & TV deal lined up too.
If conferences are organised properly this could be interesting.

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[Sandydragon]

Also reports that the local derbies will not be lost. It will be interesting. To see how that is managed.

[Tre]

Also reports that the local derbies will not be lost. It will be interesting. To see how that is managed.

It will be conferences and nations will be split.

For a Welsh/Irish team where there are 4 sides from the nation

Currently play 22 league games

Conference system = 12 home and away including debries against the other team in your conference + 6 home or away = 18 games .. .this leaves 2 missing derbies. Add those in and you have 20 games.

Different for the scots, Italians and saffas with only 2 teams... do they play teams from the same nation again or do they play amongst themselves?

Patently absurd to have a system where competitors don't play each other.

[Sandydragon]

So, some of the derbies will be meaningful in terms of the conference. Others wont be? I'd rather the conferences were tier 1 and tier 2, at least then there would be some recognisable rationale for why derbies weren't happening.

[ALunpg]

So, some of the derbies will be meaningful in terms of the conference. Others wont be? I'd rather the conferences were tier 1 and tier 2, at least then there would be some recognisable rationale for why derbies weren't happening.

The only rationale is money... hopefully this will filter down to the teams...We can only hope.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

The extra TV money is said to be £500k per team. That's 1 very good player. Is that really worth it. As for ditching the low performing teams, be awful what you wish for, because it wouldn't just be the Italians who are vulnerable, which anyone who remembered even last year's talks might point out.

[Tre]

The extra TV money is said to be £500k per team. That's 1 very good player. Is that really worth it. As for ditching the low performing teams, be awful what you wish for, because it wouldn't just be the Italians who are vulnerable, which anyone who remembered even last year's talks might point out.

We agree again... no wonder I stopped posting.

It's confirmed then

2 conferences, A & B

Ospreys
Blues
Munster
Connacht
Glasgow
Zebre
Cheetahs

Scarlets
Dragons
Leinster
Ulster
Edinburgh
Treviso
Kings

21 rounds... home and away vs your conference, home or away vs the other conference, 2 remaining derbies.

Guiness Pro 14

[paddy no 11]

Not bad at all

[Tre]

Top 3 from each conference qualify for play offs.

1 qualify for home semi
2 qualify for home QF
3 qualify for away QF

[Sandydragon]

And the competition is picking up the travelling costs.

I don't think any of the teams in our league can turn their noses up at an additional £500K per year. It will certainly help close the gap, acknowledging that we remain a long way behind the English and French clubs.

A number of former players are talking about the leagues lack of identity, but that has been a persistent argument from day one. The Celtic League didn't pull on the heart strings like the Welsh prem did; we all know that its an artificial construct but a realistic one given the depth of resources in the 3 Celtic nations. Once we added in the Italians that identity was diluted and its being diluted still further.

But as a realist, what is the alternative? I'd like a GB and I league, but that wont happen. I want our teams to be competitive which means more money so we end up in a position like this. If the Pro 14 is going to compete it needs additional money and if the Saffers can bring that, plus some quality to the table then its the best offer available.

I'll await news that American sides are looking to join with interest.

Ultimately, I'll be supporting the Dragon again this season and given a few months ago even that was in doubt, I'm not going to get too upset with this new format, particularly as the derby games are still there. In time, we may even begin to value it but for the moment qualified support is probably the right marker for how I feel about this.

[Tre]

conferences change each year

top 3 and best 4th qualify for the champions cup (not the SA sides)

[Sandydragon]

conferences change each year

top 3 and best 4th qualify for the champions cup (not the SA sides)

So no automatic nationality qualification?

[PoolerSaint]

It's a good start, hopefully the TV & sponsorship income will increase over time.
Already talk that Guinness are considering increasing their sponsorship.

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[Sandydragon]

It's a good start, hopefully the TV & sponsorship income will increase over time.
Already talk that Guinness are considering increasing their sponsorship.

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http://rugbylad.com/comparing-budgets-a ... -14-teams/

Im not sure how accurate this is, but the Celtic and English team finances seem about right from previous conversations on here.

Welsh teams are still lagging behind the English and Irish, but an extra 500K will help close the gap on the English.

Closing the gap with the top French teams is another matter.

[Lord Lucan]

conferences change each year

top 3 and best 4th qualify for the champions cup (not the SA sides)

So no automatic nationality qualification?

Good, gets rid of the cannon fodder, Eyetalians in the Champions Cup.

[Tre]

conferences change each year

top 3 and best 4th qualify for the champions cup (not the SA sides)

So no automatic nationality qualification?

No, but that was set to be put in place anyway.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Looks good. The conference system seems reasonable.

Good that all 7 European places are up for grabs too.

Just hope we can beat the Saffers now...

[ALunpg]

So an extra 0.5 million each team which will still keep the gap between the Welsh regions and the others in the Pro 12.
So unless the other unions do not pass the increase onwards to each of the teams ...it won't change anything in relative terms.

[Sandydragon]

So an extra 0.5 million each team which will still keep the gap between the Welsh regions and the others in the Pro 12.
So unless the other unions do not pass the increase onwards to each of the teams ...it won't change anything in relative terms.

Except with the English clubs. 1/2 million wont do much to bridge the alleged gap between the Welsh regions and the top French sides.

[ALunpg]

So an extra 0.5 million each team which will still keep the gap between the Welsh regions and the others in the Pro 12.
So unless the other unions do not pass the increase onwards to each of the teams ...it won't change anything in relative terms.

Except with the English clubs. 1/2 million wont do much to bridge the alleged gap between the Welsh regions and the top French sides.

Not sure that it will make much difference to cash available for players at all in reality . .most of the Welsh teams are financially already in a mess..and this will only make them a little less in a mess.
Maybe someone has the numbers to hand but listening to Gwyn Jones http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40796857 it is possibly a gamble borne out of financial desperation.

Just for our info here just dug these up for 2015/16..I think they show why the extra money can't really go on extra players... but just to possibly helping to balance the books.

Ospreys lost about half a million although about 425k of that was non recuring costs
Scarlets and Blues lost over a million each
Dragons Loss of independence

Whilst there were laudable reasons for some of the change in fortunes .. they are a reflection of where our regions are.

[Sandydragon]

The blues have issues, hence the shedding of players. The Scarlett's interest in Halfpenny suggest the additional money will be useful in expansion unless they are going to spend and hope for future income off the back of it.

Even if the money doesn't add half a million immediately to player budgets, greater financial security will allow the regions to plan further ahead and target other investment.