Zhivago wrote:Digby wrote:Zhivago wrote:
Certainly we would have a better idea of it if the state repression hadn't quashed any expression of it.
Even with a turnout of 43%, the tally of those in favour was so great that the votes in favour as a % of total registered voters was greater than that for Leave in the Brexit referendum.
Again, when many people voted multiple times I really wouldn't even consider reading much into it, and with such a low voter turnout I wouldn't read much into it. Illegal and invalid votes are nothing more than a bit of PR and don't establish even the faint whiff of a mandate.
It does clearly show a lot of people would like a referendum, but we also know a lot of people think there's no basis for one, and actually both groups have some reasonable points
Just to be clear, the Capitalist reaction that I refer to is against the expression of their democratic will, and against the possibility of secession. I'm not claiming that the democratic will of the people is to secede... We cannot be sure of that because the referendum was suppressed.
I don't think there's an established a democratic will, for either camp, so to claim there's a reaction to something which hasn't happened and isn't a clearly defined position seems more than a little partial. There's a big movement, that's only been a big movement for a brief period in Spain's history coming on the back of the financial crash and austerity and high unemployment, that movement doesn't clearly hold a majority or mandate, the movement may fade given this was barely on the horizon in 2005, and it's asking Spain to consider that Spain can't vote on on Spanish matters, only people who're currently resident in the area that some people are seeking to establish as independent.
I'd also contest any reaction against one group looking to secede is a capitalist one. Yes must people against Catalonian independence will favour capitalism, but frankly most people favour capitalism including those in favour of independence. And too the idea only capitalist states seek to keep an enlarged state does rather ignore the history of the Soviet Union, which was frankly far more brutal and dictatorial than the current Spanish government, just as Franco was
So we're left with ongoing political dialogue with some competing views on the best way forward that don't allow for an awful lot of compromise, that will be continually worked on, but no immediately getting what a sizeable faction want isn't the same as ignoring the will of the people.