TheNomad wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:20 am
Am I missing something with Porter? He's a solid club player IMO, but barely more than that. I cannot understand why you'd pick him ahead of, among others, Lawrence, Daly, Slade, Marchant, Lozowski etc
I don't get it
You're not missing anything. I don't think many people at all in the world would have him above any of those players. Maybe Lozowski at a push at best. And I say that as a Tigers fan.
I think he's a solid club player on the level of Chris Harris and Nick Tompkins, in that he could become a pretty useful international option, albeit not one without flaws. He's decent in a lot of aspects - strength, speed, handling, running lines, tackling - without being outstanding anywhere.
I'm happy to have him ahead of Slade (as the last thing this backline needs is more people in the queue to play first receiver) and Daly (wing or nothing) and Lozowski (pretty much the same description applies as to Porter), and I understood selecting him ahead of Lawrence before Lawrence's spurt of form at Bath.
The board's usual tendency towards extremes means that he is a bit underappreciated here, and I think he could have a good game against Japan - probably worth a cheeky bet on him scoring the first try tbh. Having him ahead of Marchant and current form Lawrence is baffling though.
Puja
I'd say he's a decent step down from both Harris and Tompkins.
Now, yes, but when they were both picked as internationals, absolutely not. I remember when Scotland first poached Harris and everyone expressed disbelief that they would bother, let alone that the international experience would develop him into a worthy BIL one day.
Puja
Tompkins was a bloody good club player when capped by Wales. And I'd say both had more in the locker than Porter. He's a solid pro. That's it really.
p/d wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 2:03 pm
Porter will bring power, pace and - as his highlight reel shone the light on - no shortage of panache.
I can never tell when you're being serious.
I don't mean that in a negative way against Porter - he could bring all those things in theory.
Not being serious. Just felt FKAS was fighting a lonely battle.
I was hoping by now Kelly would have displaced Farrell, Smith playing with the freedom we all want him to and lengthy discussions over Nowell’s ineptness were a thing of the past
Re: England v Japan
Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2022 2:36 pm
by jimKRFC
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 9:11 am
You can’t dismiss his win ratio on one hand and then suddenly claim it’s important on the other, though obviously we should not be happy losing to Japan. Is “amazingly high win ratio” a quote from somebody?
FWIW I do think focussing just on the stats/records is a big part of the problem with a lot of modern teams, and Jones in particular. I can understand how helpful they can be, but it feels like with the World Cup in particular he is happy to sacrifice just about anything for the win, even if nobody enjoys watching England play for the 3.5 years in between.
At the same time though, you seemed to have a fairly binary view that losing the final renders his entire tenure a complete failure?
I think you've hit the root cause of my issue with England there. I'm more of a casual viewer than most I suspect and England playing dull stodgy rugby, the not valuing anything but the world cup puts me off. If the rugby is dull - I won't watch, if we're going in with a "it doesn't matter" mind set then why should I watch. I'll probably not watch any of the games (even though I have amazon) live as it's pretty boring and I don't buy into the team - there are too many wtfs? about the selections and how we play.
When I think back from the 1999 world cup through to 2003 - England played good rugby, they wanted to win every game it ALL mattered, it was important and we did our thing and let others worry about it. It now seems (imho) that Eddie has no real idea about how to play or who to pick (in a lot positions) and if we do well at the rwc it'll seem like a fluke (a bit like 1991 did) - despite anything England have done rather than because over the 4 years a winning squad was built that should win it.
p/d wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 2:03 pm
Porter will bring power, pace and - as his highlight reel shone the light on - no shortage of panache.
I can never tell when you're being serious.
I don't mean that in a negative way against Porter - he could bring all those things in theory.
Not being serious. Just felt FKAS was fighting a lonely battle.
I was hoping by now Kelly would have displaced Farrell, Smith playing with the freedom we all want him to and lengthy discussions over Nowell’s ineptness were a thing of the past
Kelly's hamstring issue has been a real downer, he's been out a long old time now. He was sensational last season until that point and very much looked like the future England 12 what with his kicking and passing game really coming on. It's just a case of hoping he's back sooner rather than later, particularly as Tigers are a bit short on centres currently.
TheNomad wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 11:20 am
Am I missing something with Porter? He's a solid club player IMO, but barely more than that. I cannot understand why you'd pick him ahead of, among others, Lawrence, Daly, Slade, Marchant, Lozowski etc
I don't get it
I think he's a solid club player on the level of Chris Harris and Nick Tompkins, in that he could become a pretty useful international option, albeit not one without flaws. He's decent in a lot of aspects - strength, speed, handling, running lines, tackling - without being outstanding anywhere.
I'm happy to have him ahead of Slade (as the last thing this backline needs is more people in the queue to play first receiver) and Daly (wing or nothing) and Lozowski (pretty much the same description applies as to Porter), and I understood selecting him ahead of Lawrence before Lawrence's spurt of form at Bath.
The board's usual tendency towards extremes means that he is a bit underappreciated here, and I think he could have a good game against Japan - probably worth a cheeky bet on him scoring the first try tbh. Having him ahead of Marchant and current form Lawrence is baffling though.
Puja
I'd say he's a decent step down from both Harris and Tompkins.
Well yes, I did wonder at Puja's comment. Both Tompkins and Harris are better than solid club players tbh, good international players even- I'd have Tompkins at 12 for us in a heartbeat, and Harris is an excellent defender.
You're not missing anything. I don't think many people at all in the world would have him above any of those players. Maybe Lozowski at a push at best. And I say that as a Tigers fan.
So disappointing a) he's been injured so much and b) Jones hasnt shown any interest after capping him in 2016 (2 sub apps)
29 now so you'd think his international prospects arent that bright.
Frankly, I've not seen him play well enough for long enough to follow through on his obvious talent.
Re: England v Japan
Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2022 6:18 pm
by Spiffy
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 9:46 am
Zen Master Owen Farrell:
“We don’t want to overthink things,” Farrell said. “Maybe we were guilty of that a little bit at the weekend. We want to free ourselves up to be the best version of ourselves now.
“It is about letting go that bit more, not worrying about everything as much and trying to be as free but in control of the next moment. I think if we do that, it will leave us in a good place and give off to the crowd and in turn they’ll get behind us.”
Just concentrate on not throwing the ball on the floor, old chap.
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 9:46 am
Zen Master Owen Farrell:
“We don’t want to overthink things,” Farrell said. “Maybe we were guilty of that a little bit at the weekend. We want to free ourselves up to be the best version of ourselves now.
“It is about letting go that bit more, not worrying about everything as much and trying to be as free but in control of the next moment. I think if we do that, it will leave us in a good place and give off to the crowd and in turn they’ll get behind us.”
Just concentrate on not throwing the ball on the floor, old chap.
Farrell? Overthink? Oxymoron surely?
It's what slows the passing. The lad has the weight of the world on his shoulders!
Re: England v Japan
Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2022 7:25 pm
by Timbo
Devoto is recovering from the same hip surgery that Andy Murray had. Very few top athletes have returned to their previous levels after that procedure, although it’s far better than it used to be.
Honestly would be pretty happy just to see Devoto come back and have a few more decent years in the Prem. England prospects are slim to none I’d guess.
Re: England v Japan
Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2022 7:28 pm
by Banquo
Timbo wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 7:25 pm
Devoto is recovering from the same hip surgery that Andy Murray had. Very few top athletes have returned to their previous levels after that procedure, although it’s far better than it used to be.
Honestly would be pretty happy just to see Devoto come back and have a few more decent years in the Prem. England prospects are slim to none I’d guess.