England v Japan

[fivepointer]

25 players retained.

Vunipola, Genge
LCD, George
Sinckler, Heyes
Itoje, Hill, Ribbans
Curry, Willis, Vunipola, Simmonds
Youngs, JVP
Smith, Farrell
Tuilagi, Porter, Slade
May, Nowell, Cokanasiga, Steward

Proper bench. 2 backs to be left out.

[Puja]

Poor Coles! What did he do wrong?!

You'd have to say the best case scenario would be Nowell and Porter as the two to go but, knowing our luck, it'll probably be May and Slade.

Puja

[Which Tyler]

Poor Coles! What did he do wrong?

He's still there, 5P just missed him:

[Puja]

Poor Coles! What did he do wrong?

He's still there, 5P just missed him:

So the 6:2 bench is still on then

Only just realised there's no Freeman in the squad, which is a massive disappointment.

Puja

[FKAS]

No Freeman is a real shame. I liked how he and Steward linked up in the back three in the summer. A lot of potential there.

Feeling a lot more optimistic Porter is back in. Hopefully a nice Eddie bat shit selection with two 10s, three centres and a fullback. Something for Sir Clive to choke on in outrage over his lunchtime cucumber sandwiches.

[Banquo]

yeah, Porter in really cheers me up.....

[Danno]

Right, I'm getting a drink.

[badback]

So our only hope for speed is May. Who looks to have lost pace.

[fivepointer]

Apols for missing Coles out.

It does mean the 6:2 bench is still an option. Have a feeling Ribbans is going to miss out.

Porter is the one addition in the backs. Ho hum. Good opportunity to have a look at Joseph and Murley spurned.

[Banquo]

anyone else got the feeling we could wake up on Sunday with England's women world champs and the men having lost to Japan?

[Oakboy]

anyone else got the feeling we could wake up on Sunday with England's women world champs and the men having lost to Japan?

Would that mean you (and others) would finally stop defending Jones? (Sorry, only joking - I know I'm not allowed to say everything is his fault, even if it is! ).

[Banquo]

anyone else got the feeling we could wake up on Sunday with England's women world champs and the men having lost to Japan?

Would that mean you (and others) would finally stop defending Jones? (Sorry, only joking - I know I'm not allowed to say everything is his fault, even if it is! ).

Not really- and I don't 'defend' him, just try and put a bit of perspective. He remains our most successful (pro) coach in win terms, over an extended period. However, he does seem a bit random at the moment- he is saying he's trying new stuff out to prep for different challenges in the RWC. Hmmm.

[fivepointer]

anyone else got the feeling we could wake up on Sunday with England's women world champs and the men having lost to Japan?

Could happen. Its not a given we'll beat Japan but i think we will.

Looking back to the 2018 autumn games we won 35-15 against Japan, beat SA 12-11, lost to NZ 15-16 and beat Australia 37-18
3 wins out of 4 wasnt a bad return.
Right now 3 out 4 seems a stretch with our 2 toughest games still to come.

[Oakboy]

anyone else got the feeling we could wake up on Sunday with England's women world champs and the men having lost to Japan?

Would that mean you (and others) would finally stop defending Jones? (Sorry, only joking - I know I'm not allowed to say everything is his fault, even if it is! ).

Not really- and I don't 'defend' him, just try and put a bit of perspective. He remains our most successful (pro) coach in win terms, over an extended period. However, he does seem a bit random at the moment- he is saying he's trying new stuff out to prep for different challenges in the RWC. Hmmm.

The stats don't add up too well if you just take the post-2019 period, a not unreasonable stance arguably.

[Which Tyler]

Yeah, post 2019, his win rate is just 61%, so 5th winningest England coach (out of 16)
Or 6th out of 17 if you're splitting his stint into 2016-2019 and 2020-2022; meaning he's also first, by a long way

If we're limiting it to the professional era, then his post 2019 rate of 61% makes him the 2nd winningest coach (out of 7)
Or 3rd out of 8 is you're splitting his stint; and again, meaning that he's also first

[Mikey Brown]

With almost the entire coaching team around him changing it just doesn’t feel that relevant to be talking about the side of 4 years ago, but presumably he’s learned some lessons.

[p/d]

Sod his 'stats'.Limited coach with little appeal and when in a corner chooses to go round and round rather than come out fighting. This WC couldn't come soon enough

[ButchCarlisle]

Team announced

[Which Tyler]

1. Ellis Genge (VC)
2. Luke Cowan-Dickie
3. Kyle Sinckler
4. David Ribbans
5. Jonny Hill
6. Maro Itoje
7. Tom Curry
8. Sam Simmonds

9. Jack van Poortvliet
10. Marcus Smith
11. Jonny May
12. Owen Farrell (C)
13. Guy Porter
14. Jack Nowell (VC)
15. Freddie Steward

16. Jamie George, 17. Mako Vunipola, 18. Joe Heyes, 19. Alex Coles, 20. Billy Vunipola
21. Ben Youngs, 22. Henry Slade, 23. Manu Tuilagi

[Mr Mwenda]

Poor Willis, I really don't get why Jones wants so many locks in the team.

[Mikey Brown]

Poor Willis, I really don't get why Jones wants so many locks in the team.

Yeah, he's a better 6 than Itoje, much more recent game-time than Simmonds, and arguably the form prem 7 ahead of Curry. Very harsh.

Other than that fine. Good to see Ribbans given a go and a bit more pace around the park, but not overly upset that I'm busy on Saturday afternoon. Makes sense to see if Porter has pushed on at all, I suppose, but Slade and Tuilagi bench looks a bit odd.

Strange having a bench that actually removes all the pace from a side, but limited options I guess.

[Peej]

That's a big fuck off to Willis for signing with Toulouse, which is just petty. Well fuck you right back, Eddie.

Itoje at 6 has to be repeated because Jones won't admit he was wrong. Coles was pretty much the only good player last week but is relegated to the bench. The only good change is the one that he had to make in swapping Youngs and JVP.

An ever growing part of me hopes we lose, actually.

[fivepointer]

Pleased for Ribbans. JVP rightly starting. Willis & Coka a bit hard done by.

Guess this means Itoje is going to play 6 throughout the series. Seems we're also likely to see Smith & Farrell at 10 & 12.

Porter gets picked despite hardly playing. Nowell's a lucky lad.

[Puja]

Itoje at 6 is dire. I am grudgingly willing to admit that Lawes has turned into an international quality 6, but that does not mean that picking 3 locks is the route forward in general. It has never worked with anyone but Lawes and, even with him, it wasn't reliable. Stop trying to make this theory happen and just pick two locks and two flankers.

Plus Nowell keeping his place over Cokanasiga is risible. Just risible. The only bright spot is JVP getting the nod, but you just know that's only rotation because it's "only Japan" and he's be back to the bench come the next test.

I want England to win. I'd like them to prove me wrong. But if it's 65 mins in, we've been dire, and Japan are still in the game, I might start willing for a loss just so we fucking learn and change tack.

Puja

[Epaminondas Pules]

If Guy Porter is the answer then you're asking the wrong question!