It's from the anti lockdown march in London's today.

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I am a free, I am not man a numberDonny osmond wrote:This image is surely the very image of our times.
It's from the anti lockdown march in London's today.
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cashead wrote:The ones in the US have been astroturfed to fuck, so I wouldn't be surprised if that is the case.Son of Mathonwy wrote:From that picture it looks like the protesters are outnumbered by the journalists.
Don’t forget the BNP in that. Their website has some very interesting webcasts.cashead wrote:Fairly certain a Venn diagram of these idiots and anti-vaxxer idiots will be a perfect circle.Donny osmond wrote:This image is surely the very image of our times.
It's from the anti lockdown march in London's today.
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500Son of Mathonwy wrote:From that picture it looks like the protesters are outnumbered by the journalists.
The Tube must have been the uber super spreader early doors, with buses not far behind. Then call centres. Now its health and care settings, ironically.Son of Mathonwy wrote:Fair enough - completely different point!Banquo wrote:I wasn't referring to that, hence not quoting itSon of Mathonwy wrote: Sure, operational rules and guidelines are in for a shake-up, certainly in a country which has responded very poorly. I assumed Galfon was talking more about high-level/strategic approaches to pandemics, worldwide.![]()
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My kids met up in Laandan as per new guidance....and Clapham Common was seething with bodies. A pub not far from me has opened its beer garden as a takeaway.
I fear our people's 'common sense' is not a thing.
Yeah, London. They haven't gone completely insane in my neck of the woods, just on the edge of London, but yeah, I hate to think what's going on centrally. My Oyster card will continue to gather dust for a while.
I haven't gone through all of the last 4 pages since the post but...Son of Mathonwy wrote:1) If we pursue a herd immunity policy (as Sweden's apparently is), and if current UK levels of infection are approx 10% of the population (as per Eugene's post), then by the end of it the total deaths will be many times what we are currently seeing, making the 250k number very feasible.Donny osmond wrote:Sweden’s Coronavirus Strategy Will Soon Be the World’s
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles ... -be-worlds
...
But Swedish authorities have argued that the country’s higher death rate will appear comparatively lower in hindsight. Efforts to contain the virus are doomed to fail in many countries, and a large percentage of people will be infected in the end. When much of the world experiences a deadly second wave, Sweden will have the worst of the pandemic behind it.
...
There are good reasons for countries to begin easing their restrictions. It will take several years to tally the total number of deaths, bankruptcies, layoffs, suicides, mental health problems, losses to GDP and investments, and other costs attributable not just to the virus but to the measures used to fight it. It should already be obvious, however, that the economic and social costs of lockdowns are enormous: estimates from the OECD suggest that every month of pandemic-related restrictions will shrink the economies of advanced countries by two percent.
...
Sweden’s approach to COVID-19 reflects the country’s distinctive culture, and aspects of it may not be easy to replicate elsewhere. In particular, reliance on official recommendations and individual responsibility may not travel well beyond Scandinavia. Sweden is a special country characterized by high levels of trust—not just between people but between people and government institutions. Swedes were primed to take voluntary recommendations seriously in a way that citizens of other nations may not be
...
2) Sweden's approach may not be the worst in the world, there may be some things we can learn from it, but if you compare any of their numbers with South Korea's (or Singapore's, or NZ's, or Taiwan's) it's odd (to say the least) to recommend it as the strategy to follow.
3) The article in Foreign Affairs was produced by the Swedish Ratio Institute, so may not be taking an entirely unbiased view of Sweden's strategy.
Take away what you will from this. Totally agree with your lockdown point- and the strategy for getting out of it, which isn't obvious to me. (as in, I can think of no obvious strategy with no effective treatment (I think a vaccine might prove a pipe dream))Eugene Wrayburn wrote:I haven't gone through all of the last 4 pages since the post but...Son of Mathonwy wrote:1) If we pursue a herd immunity policy (as Sweden's apparently is), and if current UK levels of infection are approx 10% of the population (as per Eugene's post), then by the end of it the total deaths will be many times what we are currently seeing, making the 250k number very feasible.Donny osmond wrote:Sweden’s Coronavirus Strategy Will Soon Be the World’s
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles ... -be-worlds
2) Sweden's approach may not be the worst in the world, there may be some things we can learn from it, but if you compare any of their numbers with South Korea's (or Singapore's, or NZ's, or Taiwan's) it's odd (to say the least) to recommend it as the strategy to follow.
3) The article in Foreign Affairs was produced by the Swedish Ratio Institute, so may not be taking an entirely unbiased view of Sweden's strategy.
1. Sweden doesn't have a herd immunity policy. They have social distancing which people actually abide by and 55% of their households are single person, and they have traditions of compliance with government direction that we just don't have. It means that they haven't needed to lockdown. They haven't just let the virus run rampant though.
2. The death toll for Sweden is clearly not the best. It's not the worst either though. What it and the UK demonstrate is that there is no magic to any one policy. It's about keeping the number of sick and dying people to manageable levels. A lockdown is no more than a brake which helps you get there but you still need a strategy for getting out of it and if you go into it too late you'll have a huge number of deaths from virus circulating in the population. Sweden hasn't needed that brake.
3. It seemed pretty measured to me.
The danger of stats.Donny osmond wrote:Just to revive my tired old shit from the other day BUT with an "interesting" new angle....
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Rather than divide population by landmass you split the landmass into blocks, typically with 1km dimensions, and then determine which blocks actually have people in them. You then divide population by landmass that you've shown has people actually residing within it.Donny osmond wrote:I'm not about to claim to understand what 'lived density' means, and this may be nothing more than a confirmation that you can prove anything with statistics. Just thought it was interesting.
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Sound like a Lions selector now.Digby wrote:Donny osmond wrote:I'm not about to claim to understand what 'lived density' means, and this may be nothing more than a confirmation that you can prove anything with statistics. Just thought it was interesting.
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How many people might live in a given cell whilst it's still considered empty I don't know, but you might reasonably ignore the population of some areas of the Scottish highlands
That's the danger of copying stuff from fringe groups Facebook pages Donny. That image is a fabrication. Genuine Government briefing slides include a note showing the source of the data. United against Separation haven't given a source for it's origin either, instead giving a link to the NRS site, which obviously isn't going to include slides purporting to be from COBRA.Donny osmond wrote:Just to revive my tired old shit from the other day BUT with an "interesting" new angle....
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If the Jamboree wants to take 38 players from Scotland they have my blessingBanquo wrote:Sound like a Lions selector now.Digby wrote:Donny osmond wrote:I'm not about to claim to understand what 'lived density' means, and this may be nothing more than a confirmation that you can prove anything with statistics. Just thought it was interesting.
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How many people might live in a given cell whilst it's still considered empty I don't know, but you might reasonably ignore the population of some areas of the Scottish highlands
Fair enough, it doesn't look right and the numbers are different from official numbers.Stones of granite wrote:That's the danger of copying stuff from fringe groups Facebook pages Donny. That image is a fabrication. Genuine Government briefing slides include a note showing the source of the data. United against Separation haven't given a source for it's origin either, instead giving a link to the NRS site, which obviously isn't going to include slides purporting to be from COBRA.Donny osmond wrote:Just to revive my tired old shit from the other day BUT with an "interesting" new angle....
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Fake news.
I don't follow United against Separation, I don't think my blood pressure could take it. They have a habit of fabricating stuff and passing it off as official, which gets picked up by the gullible and reposted. This has happened several times, and it took me a while to discover the source. Now when I see something suspect, UaS Facebook page is the first place I go to check.Donny osmond wrote:Fair enough, it doesn't look right and the numbers are different from official numbers.Stones of granite wrote:That's the danger of copying stuff from fringe groups Facebook pages Donny. That image is a fabrication. Genuine Government briefing slides include a note showing the source of the data. United against Separation haven't given a source for it's origin either, instead giving a link to the NRS site, which obviously isn't going to include slides purporting to be from COBRA.Donny osmond wrote:Just to revive my tired old shit from the other day BUT with an "interesting" new angle....
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Fake news.
Didn't get it off Facebook tho, and I don't follow United against Separation. Interesting that you do, tho [emoji6] someone has to watch to watchmen, eh?
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That is interesting and goes back to my post from last week wondering why England are doing so much worse than the other UK nations. We speculatively landed on the reason "London".Stones of granite wrote:I don't follow United against Separation, I don't think my blood pressure could take it. They have a habit of fabricating stuff and passing it off as official, which gets picked up by the gullible and reposted. This has happened several times, and it took me a while to discover the source. Now when I see something suspect, UaS Facebook page is the first place I go to check.Donny osmond wrote:Fair enough, it doesn't look right and the numbers are different from official numbers.Stones of granite wrote: That's the danger of copying stuff from fringe groups Facebook pages Donny. That image is a fabrication. Genuine Government briefing slides include a note showing the source of the data. United against Separation haven't given a source for it's origin either, instead giving a link to the NRS site, which obviously isn't going to include slides purporting to be from COBRA.
Fake news.
Didn't get it off Facebook tho, and I don't follow United against Separation. Interesting that you do, tho [emoji6] someone has to watch to watchmen, eh?
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Incidentally, I think the UK Government has been highly culpable of massaging the figures as well. All of the UK briefings have concentrated on what they call deaths where COVID has been proven by a test, or listed as a factor. I think we all know that the real figure to be concerned about is the excess deaths above the 5 year average, which the ONS also publish but which is never talked about.
Up to week 18, the accumulated excess deaths in England was 44,890 which is quite a bit more than the 28K figure they use. For Scotland it was 3,722 and for Wales 1,839.
This means that the accumulated excess deaths for Scotland, Wales, and England so far are 689, 592 and 801 per million respectively.
You can check these numbers on the ONS website at
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... ed-by-week
If something has a sort of interestingy feel or look you don't have to understand it to be find it interesting. Think drag queens, or astrophysics.morepork wrote:Out of interest, how does one find something "interesting" if they do not know what is being presented?
's 'cos we aint black innit.Mellsblue wrote:I have to say, I think the Scottish govt have done a superb job. Given COVID-19 disproportionately affects the obese, those with low vitamin D and the poor it’s a miracle any of you are still alive.