RugbyRebels

Was really pleased to see Russell come on and completely change the game.

Don't think Fagerson will need much rest. Or Watson.

no sleep wrote:Was really pleased to see Russell come on and completely change the game.

Don't think Fagerson will need much rest. Or Watson.

Might not need a long one, but this is effectively the end of a season that started with the end of the 19/20 season post lockdown 1. Both should be told they are taking time off.

Yep. Russell really turned my feelings on this whole tour around to be honest. Seeing the talent of repeatedly putting runners on to a good pass make such a difference to the side, one seemingly so desperate to not play any rugby, was nice. It wasn’t enough but that game was there to be won. The Bokkes suddenly had to consider not letting us have the ball rather than just giving it back without a care.

He wasn’t flawless but his all round game was very strong and his positives far, far outweighed the cost of the dropped high ball and pen conceded. Fantastic goal kicking too.

Big D wrote:

no sleep wrote:Was really pleased to see Russell come on and completely change the game.

Don't think Fagerson will need much rest. Or Watson.

Might not need a long one, but this is effectively the end of a season that started with the end of the 19/20 season post lockdown 1. Both should be told they are taking time off.

You're right; I'd forgotten what a mess the pro season was. Just looking forward to my club starting playing.

Mikey Brown wrote:Yep. Russell really turned my feelings on this whole tour around to be honest. Seeing the talent of repeatedly putting runners on to a good pass make such a difference to the side, one seemingly so desperate to not play any rugby, was nice. It wasn’t enough but that game was there to be won. The Bokkes suddenly had to consider not letting us have the ball rather than just giving it back without a care.

He wasn’t flawless but his all round game was very strong and his positives far, far outweighed the cost of the dropped high ball and pen conceded. Fantastic goal kicking too.

Will never know, but I do wonder how the series would have gone if he'd been fit for the start. I reckon that performance would have got Russell the starting spot and we'd have been much more likely to play the rugby we needed to.

Not sure there was a midfield combination capable of carrying it through though - would have loved to see Russell - Farrell - Aki just for the fun of it.

no sleep wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:Yep. Russell really turned my feelings on this whole tour around to be honest. Seeing the talent of repeatedly putting runners on to a good pass make such a difference to the side, one seemingly so desperate to not play any rugby, was nice. It wasn’t enough but that game was there to be won. The Bokkes suddenly had to consider not letting us have the ball rather than just giving it back without a care.

He wasn’t flawless but his all round game was very strong and his positives far, far outweighed the cost of the dropped high ball and pen conceded. Fantastic goal kicking too.

Will never know, but I do wonder how the series would have gone if he'd been fit for the start. I reckon that performance would have got Russell the starting spot and we'd have been much more likely to play the rugby we needed to.

Not sure there was a midfield combination capable of carrying it through though - would have loved to see Russell - Farrell - Aki just for the fun of it.

Even if Russell had been fully fit, you can bet your boots that Gatland would not have started him. He does after all, think for himself. Why do you rate Farrell so highly? He was a disaster on tour and offered nothing. Even cement-head Gatland had the wit to drop him from the 23. Henshaw was by some distance, the best Lions centre, yet you would prefer the useless Farrell, who has been living on reputation for 3-4 years?

I was nervous every kick he had as I felt there are people (possibly Gatland included) just waiting to say he is a flake, but he was really very very good.

I'm surprised to see the dropped high ball get attention. Biggar is the best 10 in the world under a high ball and dropped 2 in his 10 minutes. There were far far more glaring mistakes by the Lions in that game.

Spiffy wrote:

no sleep wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:Yep. Russell really turned my feelings on this whole tour around to be honest. Seeing the talent of repeatedly putting runners on to a good pass make such a difference to the side, one seemingly so desperate to not play any rugby, was nice. It wasn’t enough but that game was there to be won. The Bokkes suddenly had to consider not letting us have the ball rather than just giving it back without a care.

He wasn’t flawless but his all round game was very strong and his positives far, far outweighed the cost of the dropped high ball and pen conceded. Fantastic goal kicking too.

Will never know, but I do wonder how the series would have gone if he'd been fit for the start. I reckon that performance would have got Russell the starting spot and we'd have been much more likely to play the rugby we needed to.

Not sure there was a midfield combination capable of carrying it through though - would have loved to see Russell - Farrell - Aki just for the fun of it.

Even if Russell had been fully fit, you can bet your boots that Gatland would not have started him. He does after all, think for himself. Why do you rate Farrell so highly? He was a disaster on tour and offered nothing. Even cement-head Gatland had the wit to drop him from the 23. Henshaw was by some distance, the best Lions centre, yet you would prefer the useless Farrell, who has been living on reputation for 3-4 years?

I don't rate Farrell highly. I meant that that was one of the weirder midfield combinations that you could make from the squad.
I don't know what midfield I'd pick. Probably have Russell, Henshaw and Dunno.

Thank goodness that contrived nonsense is over for a few more years.

General Zod wrote:Thank goodness that contrived nonsense is over for a few more years.

Yeah. The tour was idiotic from top to bottom. The media hype train was pretty unbearable, but not surprising given everyone’s desperation for a bit of a distraction. The rugby was horrific, but surely Gatland will not be in the running next time out.

In a sense I feel weirdly encouraged by the failure. You can’t beat grind with more grind. Rugby isn’t completely dead. SA are an anomaly that need to be out-thought and out-manoeuvred. A series win would have vindicated this tactic of countering negativity with more negativity. Refusing to play the game to such a degree that you leave the result in the hands of the blocking runners and TMOs.

The attack was obviously massively flawed. Who will ever really know what balance of Gatland and Townsend made it so, but Townsend will surely have learned some lessons. I’m excited to see how he develops on the back of this.

Mikey Brown wrote:

General Zod wrote:Thank goodness that contrived nonsense is over for a few more years.

Yeah. The tour was idiotic from top to bottom. The media hype train was pretty unbearable, but not surprising given everyone’s desperation for a bit of a distraction. The rugby was horrific, but surely Gatland will not be in the running next time out.

In a sense I feel weirdly encouraged by the failure. You can’t beat grind with more grind. Rugby isn’t completely dead. SA are an anomaly that need to be out-thought and out-manoeuvred. A series win would have vindicated this tactic of countering negativity with more negativity. Refusing to play the game to such a degree that you leave the result in the hands of the blocking runners and TMOs.

The attack was obviously massively flawed. Who will ever really know what balance of Gatland and Townsend made it so, but Townsend will surely have learned some lessons. I’m excited to see how he develops on the back of this.

Yeah I kinda agree. Be very interested in the tests later this year between the other southern hemisphere sides and SA, given that those guys have had the time and space and desire to create decent attacking structures.

I am slightly worried that the amount of kicking we did was a tactic of Townsend's rather than Gatland, given that we've seen Scotland do a lot of kicking over the last year. Like you say hopefully GT will learn that lesson.

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Tandy's defensive system mostly held up well too which is a good sign.

Quote from Townsend Inthe Guardian suggests he is still attack minded:

“I believe the game has already moved to an era when 10s have to be attackers,” said Townsend, praising both Russell and the fast-improving Marcus Smith whom he already considers to be “one of the best attacking 10s in the world” and a blossoming England star. “We’ve seen players like Richie Mo’unga, we’ve seen Finn last night … those are the 10s who put defences under pressure. I do believe their way of playing can win games.”

General Zod wrote:Thank goodness that contrived nonsense is over for a few more years.

needs to be over, full stop.

I see already talk of

Gatland again for the next series
More games in the next series (throw in Tong and Fiji to make that "palatable"

Lack of fans really didn't help this tour

Gatland hunting he wants another and the lions blazers wanting him back has really soured things for me. It is clear from everyone that Finn Russell was the sole reason we got to enjoy Saturday and had fuck all to do with Gatland.

whatisthejava wrote:Gatland hunting he wants another and the lions blazers wanting him back has really soured things for me. It is clear from everyone that Finn Russell was the sole reason we got to enjoy Saturday and had fuck all to do with Gatland.

Same here. He is a blight on the Lions - might be a very decent coach for an international side given time to build a structure, but time and again for the Lions he's gone stodgy, staid, and been lucky to get the results he has.

Puja

Puja wrote:

whatisthejava wrote:Gatland hunting he wants another and the lions blazers wanting him back has really soured things for me. It is clear from everyone that Finn Russell was the sole reason we got to enjoy Saturday and had fuck all to do with Gatland.

Same here. He is a blight on the Lions - might be a very decent coach for an international side given time to build a structure, but time and again for the Lions he's gone stodgy, staid, and been lucky to get the results he has.

Puja

I’m agreeing with you really hard but, the next tour is Australia. Let someone young come in and let them try and beat the Aussies by playing adventurous rugby so if they do well they can go into NZ ready. If Gatland gets the next one, then he either gets NZ again or your looking at an inexperienced lions head coach going to NZ.

It makes no damn sense and is compelling as watching paint dry

That was my first time watching Lions rugby and it was a hard watch.
All sorts of comments from South Africans online like "if you want entertainment, watch WWE".

Between the lack of rugby and the whinging, that was a very bad advert for the game globally. I doubt anyone became a fan of rugby thanks to that tour and it will certainly have turned more than a few people off of it.

Pat Lam or Nick Evans for the lions head coaching job please

Anyone able to copy/paste?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... wed-lions/

Mikey Brown wrote:Anyone able to copy/paste?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... wed-lions/

It is a very visual article. Basically talking about how well Russell probed for opportunities, especially the overlap he created that wasn't converted.

Kinda feel we will have 4 years of structure from England/Ireland and in 4 years time FR will be back to third choice behind Farrell and Biggar

I bought into the Lions for the first time this year and don't think I will be bothering again in 4 years time. This tour has been horrible on many fronts. Touring to a country that's currently on the brink of a civil war and rife with coronavirus in the first place was questionable at least. Then the negative anti-rugby and lack of fans to salvage an atmosphere at least. Then World Rugby failing to have an adequate contingency plan for any official being ill was ridiculous. Then the Rassie documentary was probably the lowest point for me. Just not a good tour in any way. The thing I'm least bothered about was the loss.

In 4 years time, I'm going to struggle to get back on the bandwagon

whatisthejava wrote:Kinda feel we will have 4 years of structure from England/Ireland and in 4 years time FR will be back to third choice behind Farrell and Biggar

I expect Smith to be well clear of any England 10s by that point. If not in the eyes of EJ, certainly in the eyes of the Lions coach.

Russell will be approaching 33 for the next tour. I am not sure he will still be a top level international by that point. Ever since his serious injury I have always had a feeling he was in it for a good time not a long time. Maybe it is just his personality and I think his approach is great to be honest. Could imagine him in Japan getting paid a good whack in 4 years time. And Hastings and Thomson if they continue to get better can put pressure on him at that point even if he is still a top level 10.