RugbyRebels

Glad to see one corner of the Pacific will give us respect after NZ and Samoa's unsporting behaviour in not rolling over.

Banquo wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 4:13 pm
Ribbans has looked the part- old school hard second row.

Aye. Great to see

badback wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:30 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 4:13 pm

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 4:08 pm Banquo, am i seeing things right? All the good bits of play are effectively with Farrell at FH and Smith at IC.

Its how Smith was used when he first came in- loops early, gets missed and then distributes. Not sure better defences would be fooled tho- first try was very soft, even if it was a great line from Steward.

Ribbans has looked the part- old school hard second row.

I thought Ribbans was good too

Thirded (edit: fourthed). Achieved more in one test than Hill in however many.

That’s harsh on Hill, but Ribbans did look good.

Slade now playing wing for Argentina

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:03 pm Story of Slade’s England career. So close but no cigar.

I thought he was pretty lively tbh, but yes.

Banquo wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:58 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:03 pm Story of Slade’s England career. So close but no cigar.

I thought he was pretty lively tbh, but yes.

Was based on one action: great line off a shoulder but the execution wasn’t quite there.

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:42 pm That’s harsh on Hill, but Ribbans did look good.

*England test hyperbole clause was fully invoked.

Much better, playing a weaker team helps. Spontaneous thoughts.

Smith isn't quite clicking.
May is still ace.
I don't know what problem 3 locks is solving. But it seems to rely on curry's insane workrate. He can do it v japan but I doubt against the best.
Simmonds' best game for England.
Coles is an unlucky player, i fear that may be a feature of his caps. E.g. the rip creates a Japanese try.
Steward is really good.
It is weird LCD is a lion. George is much better.
Jvp is aces, although some of the passes showed youngs' influence.

Enjoyed this match - agree good game for Simmonds!

Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:03 pm Much better, playing a weaker team helps. Spontaneous thoughts.

Smith isn't quite clicking.
May is still ace.
I don't know what problem 3 locks is solving. But it seems to rely on curry's insane workrate. He can do it v japan but I doubt against the best.
Simmonds' best game for England.
Coles is an unlucky player, i fear that may be a feature of his caps. E.g. the rip creates a Japanese try.
Steward is really good.
It is weird LCD is a lion. George is much better.
Jvp is aces, although some of the passes showed youngs' influence.

Coles has had two caps and been pretty decent so I’m a bit confused by your comment.

Banquo wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:57 pm

Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:03 pm Much better, playing a weaker team helps. Spontaneous thoughts.

Smith isn't quite clicking.
May is still ace.
I don't know what problem 3 locks is solving. But it seems to rely on curry's insane workrate. He can do it v japan but I doubt against the best.
Simmonds' best game for England.
Coles is an unlucky player, i fear that may be a feature of his caps. E.g. the rip creates a Japanese try.
Steward is really good.
It is weird LCD is a lion. George is much better.
Jvp is aces, although some of the passes showed youngs' influence.

Coles has had two caps and been pretty decent so I’m a bit confused by your comment.

Haha just a feeling he will have no luck

Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:03 pm Much better, playing a weaker team helps. Spontaneous thoughts.

Smith isn't quite clicking.
May is still ace.
I don't know what problem 3 locks is solving. But it seems to rely on curry's insane workrate. He can do it v japan but I doubt against the best.
Simmonds' best game for England.
Coles is an unlucky player, i fear that may be a feature of his caps. E.g. the rip creates a Japanese try.
Steward is really good.
It is weird LCD is a lion. George is much better.
Jvp is aces, although some of the passes showed youngs' influence.

I agree with the majority of this.

Two tries for Smith will distract from what was overall, a pretty poor performance. I can’t put my finger on why, but things he’d do almost nonchalantly for Quins aren’t coming off for him in the same way. For example, the cross field kick that led to his second try was rubbish and he was really lucky that he was bailed out by his teammates making something from it.

Similarly, Porter scoring two tries sounds good, but he was simply the beneficiary of being in the right place at the right time to finish others’ good work.

It was a pretty dull game. Japan were poor and England never really had to exert themselves to run up 50 points. At most we got into third gear. Job done but I wouldn't read much into this one. The coming tests will tell us a lot more because the intensity will have to be a lot higher.

I do agree. Although I think the step up in intensity from last week was probably the single most pleasing thing about today’s performance.

We’ll need to step it up again next week.

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:11 pm

Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:03 pm Much better, playing a weaker team helps. Spontaneous thoughts.

Smith isn't quite clicking.
May is still ace.
I don't know what problem 3 locks is solving. But it seems to rely on curry's insane workrate. He can do it v japan but I doubt against the best.
Simmonds' best game for England.
Coles is an unlucky player, i fear that may be a feature of his caps. E.g. the rip creates a Japanese try.
Steward is really good.
It is weird LCD is a lion. George is much better.
Jvp is aces, although some of the passes showed youngs' influence.

I agree with the majority of this.

Two tries for Smith will distract from what was overall, a pretty poor performance. I can’t put my finger on why, but things he’d do almost nonchalantly for Quins aren’t coming off for him in the same way. For example, the cross field kick that led to his second try was rubbish and he was really lucky that he was bailed out by his teammates making something from it.

Similarly, Porter scoring two tries sounds good, but he was simply the beneficiary of being in the right place at the right time to finish others’ good work.

Smith, imo, is not playing well because he’s not allowed to play his natural game. For me, you either let him play his natural game, and to boss that game, or you don’t play him. The Farrell compromise, in both senses of the words, continues…

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:44 pm

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:11 pm

Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 6:03 pm Much better, playing a weaker team helps. Spontaneous thoughts.

Smith isn't quite clicking.
May is still ace.
I don't know what problem 3 locks is solving. But it seems to rely on curry's insane workrate. He can do it v japan but I doubt against the best.
Simmonds' best game for England.
Coles is an unlucky player, i fear that may be a feature of his caps. E.g. the rip creates a Japanese try.
Steward is really good.
It is weird LCD is a lion. George is much better.
Jvp is aces, although some of the passes showed youngs' influence.

I agree with the majority of this.

Two tries for Smith will distract from what was overall, a pretty poor performance. I can’t put my finger on why, but things he’d do almost nonchalantly for Quins aren’t coming off for him in the same way. For example, the cross field kick that led to his second try was rubbish and he was really lucky that he was bailed out by his teammates making something from it.

Similarly, Porter scoring two tries sounds good, but he was simply the beneficiary of being in the right place at the right time to finish others’ good work.

Smith, imo, is not playing well because he’s not allowed to play his natural game. For me, you either let him play his natural game, and to boss that game, or you don’t play him. The Farrell compromise, in both senses of the words, continues…

Mainly agree, but his execution was just poor a fair few times.

Sounds like I missed a much more cohesive performance than last week. Balance of Japanese NZ-hangover vs England development/bounce-back?

I saw someone said ‘please Smith stop kicking away attacking ball’. Good to see that old pattern repeat itself.

Banquo wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:56 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:44 pm

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:11 pm

I agree with the majority of this.

Two tries for Smith will distract from what was overall, a pretty poor performance. I can’t put my finger on why, but things he’d do almost nonchalantly for Quins aren’t coming off for him in the same way. For example, the cross field kick that led to his second try was rubbish and he was really lucky that he was bailed out by his teammates making something from it.

Similarly, Porter scoring two tries sounds good, but he was simply the beneficiary of being in the right place at the right time to finish others’ good work.

Smith, imo, is not playing well because he’s not allowed to play his natural game. For me, you either let him play his natural game, and to boss that game, or you don’t play him. The Farrell compromise, in both senses of the words, continues…

Mainly agree, but his execution was just poor a fair few times.

Definitely but I think that’s because he’s thinking about what Jones’s/Gleeson’s system wants him to do rather than just playing what he sees in front of him*. What ever it is, he’s currently not worthy of selection and it all goes back to picking your 10 and then sticking his round peg in a square hole.
*the same happened to Ford, imo, so he’s not the first instinctive 10 to regress/not reach his potential under Jones.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:59 pm Sounds like I missed a much more cohesive performance than last week. Balance of Japanese NZ-hangover vs England development/bounce-back?

I saw someone said ‘please Smith stop kicking away attacking ball’. Good to see that old pattern repeat itself.

The coaching staff should be coaching that silly little vertical bunny hop out of Smith's game. It's predictable, gains no ground, slows him up and makes him look like a flash Harry.

Big score for England but how much of a real test?

Now France v.SA - that was a real blood and guts test match on a totally different level.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:06 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:56 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:44 pm
Smith, imo, is not playing well because he’s not allowed to play his natural game. For me, you either let him play his natural game, and to boss that game, or you don’t play him. The Farrell compromise, in both senses of the words, continues…

Mainly agree, but his execution was just poor a fair few times.

Definitely but I think that’s because he’s thinking about what Jones’s/Gleeson’s system wants him to do rather than just playing what he sees in front of him*. What ever it is, he’s currently not worthy of selection and it all goes back to picking your 10 and then sticking his round peg in a square hole.
*the same happened to Ford, imo, so he’s not the first instinctive 10 to regress/not reach his potential under Jones.

Dunno those little chips looked off the cuff but bad options badly executed, ditto intercepted pass.

I think with Ford he may not have been doing what he necessarily wanted to do, but he generally executed what he was asked to do, well.

This. If Ford gets himself fit and is playing well for Sale, I’d have him at 10 ahead of Smith.

I’m a big fan of Smith’s but whatever the reasons behind it, he simply hasn’t been able to replicate his club form for England.

Banquo wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:14 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:06 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:56 pm
Mainly agree, but his execution was just poor a fair few times.

Definitely but I think that’s because he’s thinking about what Jones’s/Gleeson’s system wants him to do rather than just playing what he sees in front of him*. What ever it is, he’s currently not worthy of selection and it all goes back to picking your 10 and then sticking his round peg in a square hole.
*the same happened to Ford, imo, so he’s not the first instinctive 10 to regress/not reach his potential under Jones.

Dunno those little chips looked off the cuff but bad options badly executed, ditto intercepted pass.

I think with Ford he may not have been doing what he necessarily wanted to do, but he generally executed what he was asked to do, well.

Difficult to argue against that. It’s just a gut feeling that Smith’s natural game is being so messed with that even the basics have gone to pot. Brain fog is the best title for it, I suppose. There’s no way you look at him for Quins and for England and believe it’s the same player. Nothing to base that on other than my mercurial 10 tinted spectacles. The poor bloke’s had 15ish caps and never had a set-up even close to that which made him play his way into the England XV. As above, even a seasoned veteran such as Ford had his creativity drilled out of him and on occasion had games of endless aimless kicking, albeit he never looked as discombobulated as Smith does.

The thing that’s really special about Smith at club level is his running game, he’s a threat from pretty much anywhere on the pitch including counter attack. Is it just that he’s getting no space at the test level to execute this part of his game?

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:35 pm This. If Ford gets himself fit and is playing well for Sale, I’d have him at 10 ahead of Smith.

I’m a big fan of Smith’s but whatever the reasons behind it, he simply hasn’t been able to replicate his club form for England.

Agreed on Ford but I’m very biased.

I think the reason is he’s relatively inexperienced and being asked to play contrary to his instincts. Brain fog, as above/below dependent on your platform.