England Squad for the AIs

[Banquo]

The thing with George, and it is a tough problem, is he’s 34 now. 37 by the next World Cup. We desperately need alternatives to emerge / be tried / looked at

Dan, Langdon, Blamire plus LCD all need time.



Barbeary too

[Danno]

Thacker, Dunn might have a resurgence too?

[Epaminondas Pules]

Created the same problem as we had before. Can’t drop the captain!

He seems a good bloke, but we have to find true alternatives. Three of them really! Dan might be one and…..erm……tick tock tick tock. I know it is three years away but that’s relatively short when you’re short on depth in a position!

[Epaminondas Pules]

Thacker, Dunn might have a resurgence too?

So might I, but in both cases it’s unlikely

[Danno]

You can still be a vice-captain

[FKAS]

The thing with George, and it is a tough problem, is he’s 34 now. 37 by the next World Cup. We desperately need alternatives to emerge / be tried / looked at

Dan, Langdon, Blamire plus LCD all need time.



Barbeary too

LCD is already 31 he's not a spring chicken and with his injury history I'd not be gambling on his making the next world cup.

Hooker though is the least of our problems when you see Isiekwe, BCurry and Dombrandt on the bench.

[Mellsblue]

George (who is also deserving of the job and a pretty good role model).

who also looks like Danno's aubergine phnaaar

The melted aubergine.

[Mellsblue]

Charlie Clare will slot right in when George decides to retire.

[Stom]

The thing with George, and it is a tough problem, is he’s 34 now. 37 by the next World Cup. We desperately need alternatives to emerge / be tried / looked at

Dan, Langdon, Blamire plus LCD all need time.



Barbeary too

LCD is already 31 he's not a spring chicken and with his injury history I'd not be gambling on his making the next world cup.

Hooker though is the least of our problems when you see Isiekwe, BCurry and Dombrandt on the bench.

I think nearly every country would be very happy to have Isiekwe, BCurry, and Dommers available to their XXIII. None are terrible players. They just look bad when they take up shirts 19, 20, and 21...

[Danno]

George (who is also deserving of the job and a pretty good role model).

who also looks like Danno's aubergine phnaaar

The melted aubergine.

So cruel

[Danno]

I can't imagine that Dombrandt, B.Curry, possibly even Underhill will be troubling the squad when Earl, CCS, T.Curry (assuming his hip is sorted), Pearson, Pepper, Pollock, T.Willis(!!!) are all either integral to the team or looming in the near future. They need a massive AI and possibly 6n

Alfie who?

This is such a nice problem to have after the horrors of the 2000s to 2015 tbf. We could still be picking Tom Wood, Robshaw and Nick Easter if Dan Cole is the cutoff for an International.....


Will we ever solve 12? No.

[FKAS]

Dan, Langdon, Blamire plus LCD all need time.



Barbeary too

LCD is already 31 he's not a spring chicken and with his injury history I'd not be gambling on his making the next world cup.

Hooker though is the least of our problems when you see Isiekwe, BCurry and Dombrandt on the bench.

I think nearly every country would be very happy to have Isiekwe, BCurry, and Dommers available to their XXIII. None are terrible players. They just look bad when they take up shirts 19, 20, and 21...

Average players at test level, good club level players. Don't think most top tier international teams would be fussed.

[Stom]

LCD is already 31 he's not a spring chicken and with his injury history I'd not be gambling on his making the next world cup.

Hooker though is the least of our problems when you see Isiekwe, BCurry and Dombrandt on the bench.

I think nearly every country would be very happy to have Isiekwe, BCurry, and Dommers available to their XXIII. None are terrible players. They just look bad when they take up shirts 19, 20, and 21...

Average players at test level, good club level players. Don't think most top tier international teams would be fussed.

So you mean EnZid, SA, and France, right? As I'm pretty sure the rest would be delighted, and I reckon the Kiwis wouldn't say no to taking a look...

[p/d]

They can have Isiekwe

[FKAS]

Isiekwe would be the only one with a snow balls chance in hell of making the NZ squad and that's only because they are struggling for locks. None of Argentina, SA, France, Ireland and NZ are looking at those guys and thinking, hmm maybe they could do a job.

[Danno]

Average is pretty harsh, given how few chances they've had (Dombrandt aside). EJ buggered B.Curry and Isiekwe about relentlessly. If they'd had similar international development to T.Curry and Itoje* I think they'd be a lot further along

*and that was lucky, the dickhead was chatting about Vauxhall Astras and Ferraris in Itoje's breakthrough season. You almost wouldn't put it past him not to select a player because the press chatted too much.

Give them a bit more time they might go Mark Wilson

[Epaminondas Pules]

Isiekwe would be the only one with a snow balls chance in hell of making the NZ squad and that's only because they are struggling for locks. None of Argentina, SA, France, Ireland and NZ are looking at those guys and thinking, hmm maybe they could do a job.

This, but, they’d have probably at least had twice as many caps as they have for England, Dombrandt apart who I don’t think fits any of them. None are shy of looking at other players. But I don’t think they’d really trouble them too much long term.

[Scrumhead]

Isiekwe would be the only one with a snow balls chance in hell of making the NZ squad and that's only because they are struggling for locks. None of Argentina, SA, France, Ireland and NZ are looking at those guys and thinking, hmm maybe they could do a job.

I disagree. Rubiolo and Alemanno are different types of lock to Isiekwe but I wouldn’t say either of them look obviously superior to him in the Premiership. It’s fair to say playing for Saracens gives him an easier ride than they get for Falcons or Gloucester, but I’d also argue it’s easier to shine in a weaker team and I don’t know if they do shine all that much.

He might struggle to make the Ireland squad today but he’d probably be 5th choice behind Beirne, McCarthy, Ryan and Henderson which is a particularly good crop. If everyone’s fit, he’s 4th or 5th choice for us so same/same.

SA’s lock stocks are made to look better by a few stellar frontline options. Behind them, players like Moerat are regularly making the squad and I wouldn’t say he’s obviously a step above Isiekwe.

As far as Dombrandt and Curry are concerned, I don’t think players like Jacobsen and Grondona are notably superior. Matter of opinion really, but I think you’re dismissing them a bit too easily. I also think NZ or France would have Dombrandt (or Mercer) playing at test level like they do for their clubs.

[oldbackrow]

I also think NZ or France would have Dombrandt (or Mercer) playing at test level like they do for their clubs.

I seem to remember there was a podcast earlier this year with an interview with Steve Hansen (Rugby Aotearoa?) where he explains why he wouldn't have picked Mercer for NZ.

[FKAS]

Isiekwe would be the only one with a snow balls chance in hell of making the NZ squad and that's only because they are struggling for locks. None of Argentina, SA, France, Ireland and NZ are looking at those guys and thinking, hmm maybe they could do a job.

I disagree. Rubiolo and Alemanno are different types of lock to Isiekwe but I wouldn’t say either of them look obviously superior to him in the Premiership. It’s fair to say playing for Saracens gives him an easier ride than they get for Falcons or Gloucester, but I’d also argue it’s easier to shine in a weaker team and I don’t know if they do shine all that much.

He might struggle to make the Ireland squad today but he’d probably be 5th choice behind Beirne, McCarthy, Ryan and Henderson which is a particularly good crop. If everyone’s fit, he’s 4th or 5th choice for us so same/same.

SA’s lock stocks are made to look better by a few stellar frontline options. Behind them, players like Moerat are regularly making the squad and I wouldn’t say he’s obviously a step above Isiekwe.

As far as Dombrandt and Curry are concerned, I don’t think players like Jacobsen and Grondona are notably superior. Matter of opinion really, but I think you’re dismissing them a bit too easily. I also think NZ or France would have Dombrandt (or Mercer) playing at test level like they do for their clubs.

Your argument has some merit right up to this point.

Dombrandt has looked powderpuff at international level so far. Work rate and physicality are poor in an England shirt. I just don't think he's got the extra gear to deal with the increase in intensity and physicality that comes with the international game, ditto Ben Curry. NZ already have a Dombrandt equivalent in Hoskins Sotutu who can't get into the international side and he's nowhere near physical enough to get near French selection. The French backrow are full of absolute warriors with Aldritt, Jelonch, Cros and Ollivon. Dombrandt would be a luxury pick they don't seem to favour in their backrow.

Ireland can also use Baird in the second row before needing Isiekwe then having their own athletic style lock/6 in Izuchukwu who's got potential to step up but not shown it yet.

Our resources at lock are pretty bare and despite us having some genuinely intriguing backrow prospects they aren't on show in the 23. I don't think I'm alone in thinking that Coles, Pearson and TWillis would have been a bench that we could have selected that would have given us more to forward for later in the game.

[Banquo]

The thing with George, and it is a tough problem, is he’s 34 now. 37 by the next World Cup. We desperately need alternatives to emerge / be tried / looked at

Dan, Langdon, Blamire plus LCD all need time.



Barbeary too

Hooker though is the least of our problems when you see Isiekwe, BCurry and Dombrandt on the bench.

That’s wholly self inflicted. Read Cole’s/Batley/Hill/willis
(Pearson, Pepper, Pollock) looks infinitely better.

On LCD if George gets crocked might be handy, no?

[Banquo]

Isiekwe would be the only one with a snow balls chance in hell of making the NZ squad and that's only because they are struggling for locks. None of Argentina, SA, France, Ireland and NZ are looking at those guys and thinking, hmm maybe they could do a job.

I disagree. Rubiolo and Alemanno are different types of lock to Isiekwe but I wouldn’t say either of them look obviously superior to him in the Premiership. It’s fair to say playing for Saracens gives him an easier ride than they get for Falcons or Gloucester, but I’d also argue it’s easier to shine in a weaker team and I don’t know if they do shine all that much.

He might struggle to make the Ireland squad today but he’d probably be 5th choice behind Beirne, McCarthy, Ryan and Henderson which is a particularly good crop. If everyone’s fit, he’s 4th or 5th choice for us so same/same.

SA’s lock stocks are made to look better by a few stellar frontline options. Behind them, players like Moerat are regularly making the squad and I wouldn’t say he’s obviously a step above Isiekwe.

As far as Dombrandt and Curry are concerned, I don’t think players like Jacobsen and Grondona are notably superior. Matter of opinion really, but I think you’re dismissing them a bit too easily. I also think NZ or France would have Dombrandt (or Mercer) playing at test level like they do for their clubs.

Your argument has some merit right up to this point.

Dombrandt has looked powderpuff at international level so far. Work rate and physicality are poor in an England shirt. I just don't think he's got the extra gear to deal with the increase in intensity and physicality that comes with the international game, ditto Ben Curry. NZ already have a Dombrandt equivalent in Hoskins Sotutu who can't get into the international side and he's nowhere near physical enough to get near French selection. The French backrow are full of absolute warriors with Aldritt, Jelonch, Cros and Ollivon. Dombrandt would be a luxury pick they don't seem to favour in their backrow.

Ireland can also use Baird in the second row before needing Isiekwe then having their own athletic style lock/6 in Izuchukwu who's got potential to step up but not shown it yet.

Our resources at lock are pretty bare and despite us having some genuinely intriguing backrow prospects they aren't on show in the 23. I don't think I'm alone in thinking that Coles, Pearson and TWillis would have been a bench that we could have selected that would have given us more to forward for later in the game.

Couple of locks are injured but overall we look pretty strong at lock surely. Itoje, Martin, Chessum backed up by Coles, Ewels, Batley….before you get to Isiekwe, Jonny Hill…

[Stom]

Isiekwe would be the only one with a snow balls chance in hell of making the NZ squad and that's only because they are struggling for locks. None of Argentina, SA, France, Ireland and NZ are looking at those guys and thinking, hmm maybe they could do a job.

I disagree. Rubiolo and Alemanno are different types of lock to Isiekwe but I wouldn’t say either of them look obviously superior to him in the Premiership. It’s fair to say playing for Saracens gives him an easier ride than they get for Falcons or Gloucester, but I’d also argue it’s easier to shine in a weaker team and I don’t know if they do shine all that much.

He might struggle to make the Ireland squad today but he’d probably be 5th choice behind Beirne, McCarthy, Ryan and Henderson which is a particularly good crop. If everyone’s fit, he’s 4th or 5th choice for us so same/same.

SA’s lock stocks are made to look better by a few stellar frontline options. Behind them, players like Moerat are regularly making the squad and I wouldn’t say he’s obviously a step above Isiekwe.

As far as Dombrandt and Curry are concerned, I don’t think players like Jacobsen and Grondona are notably superior. Matter of opinion really, but I think you’re dismissing them a bit too easily. I also think NZ or France would have Dombrandt (or Mercer) playing at test level like they do for their clubs.

I have some agreement with FKAS for once, in that I don't think Dombrandt or Mercer would get anywhere close to the French team, but that team is ridiculous. However, with the right use of the player, I don't see why either couldn't be effective at international level. The problem is, for England, that we're not setup to play that way, and have gone a different route. Sloppy Bojangles has decided that Mercer (not included in this debate) couldn't fit, but that Dombrandt could work in his system. So he's selected on the bench. While I do like TWillis and other options, the truth is that Dombrandt has the consistency at club level to warrant a go at international level.

Sometimes it takes players a short while to ramp up, and I'd rather we gave players who show themselves capable of producing incredible games at club level TOO MANY chances, rather than dropping them for Mr. Military Medium.

Same for BCurry. He's a pretty damn good player. Yes, Evans is playing better rugby right now and isn't in the squad. But he's also maybe not playing the rugby Scabby Ballsacks wants.

[Which Tyler]

Scabby Ballsacks

[FKAS]

I disagree. Rubiolo and Alemanno are different types of lock to Isiekwe but I wouldn’t say either of them look obviously superior to him in the Premiership. It’s fair to say playing for Saracens gives him an easier ride than they get for Falcons or Gloucester, but I’d also argue it’s easier to shine in a weaker team and I don’t know if they do shine all that much.

He might struggle to make the Ireland squad today but he’d probably be 5th choice behind Beirne, McCarthy, Ryan and Henderson which is a particularly good crop. If everyone’s fit, he’s 4th or 5th choice for us so same/same.

SA’s lock stocks are made to look better by a few stellar frontline options. Behind them, players like Moerat are regularly making the squad and I wouldn’t say he’s obviously a step above Isiekwe.

As far as Dombrandt and Curry are concerned, I don’t think players like Jacobsen and Grondona are notably superior. Matter of opinion really, but I think you’re dismissing them a bit too easily. I also think NZ or France would have Dombrandt (or Mercer) playing at test level like they do for their clubs.

Your argument has some merit right up to this point.

Dombrandt has looked powderpuff at international level so far. Work rate and physicality are poor in an England shirt. I just don't think he's got the extra gear to deal with the increase in intensity and physicality that comes with the international game, ditto Ben Curry. NZ already have a Dombrandt equivalent in Hoskins Sotutu who can't get into the international side and he's nowhere near physical enough to get near French selection. The French backrow are full of absolute warriors with Aldritt, Jelonch, Cros and Ollivon. Dombrandt would be a luxury pick they don't seem to favour in their backrow.

Ireland can also use Baird in the second row before needing Isiekwe then having their own athletic style lock/6 in Izuchukwu who's got potential to step up but not shown it yet.

Our resources at lock are pretty bare and despite us having some genuinely intriguing backrow prospects they aren't on show in the 23. I don't think I'm alone in thinking that Coles, Pearson and TWillis would have been a bench that we could have selected that would have given us more to forward for later in the game.

Couple of locks are injured but overall we look pretty strong at lock surely. Itoje, Martin, Chessum backed up by Coles, Ewels, Batley….before you get to Isiekwe, Jonny Hill…

That list gives us three viable options competing for a spot in the 23. One decent back up option who could kick on. Two guys that have been in and around squads for a while but who we know are unlikely to ever be more than squad filler. Batley I've liked as a player for a while now but he's an uncapped 28 year old who looks exciting for his club but unfancied by the international coaches, a Freddie Clarke V2. Jonny Hill is a non-entity right now as he can't play.

What we really need is one of the next generation to kick on and start pushing Coles. Give us five players in those upper brackets. If that could be an Arthur Clark or a George Hammond that would be good. Big lads who are decent at the set piece.