Terf me out...

[morepork]

No you're right of course, we have to shoe horn him into a box labelled girl because we're so desperate to be wokebros that we can't simply let him be a boy who wears dresses and plays with dolls, no lets ignore reality and encourage him down a lifelong path of painful and intrusive medication rather than simply acknowledge he is what he is.

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

It looks perfectly reasonable to me. According to the article the child wanted to be a girl, not a boy who wore dresses.

Why would a parent encourage a more extreme change in their child than necessary? If it happened to me, I would certainly find it easier to accept that my children were merely cross-dressers than that they wanted to actually change gender.

I spend too much of my working life seeing the horrific things that parents do to their children to still ask the question why. Sometimes they don't even mean to. Sometimes they just involve children in their adult conversations. Enough saying "men are terrible" and strangely junior doesn't want to be a man.

What's the worst that can happen? Well in this particular case a child can feel pressured into continue the path that their parent has taken them; will feel like the pride and positive reinforcement that their parent has given them will dissappear; will see that the by has made sure that there's a permanent record of a "decision" made when they were 3 by going to the papers.

Anyway if someone can tell me what the difference between a 4 year old boy and girl is, let alone explain how a 4 year old could hope to understand then articulate it, then my concern might be gone. In the meantime, have a read:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1175 ... 96672.html

I'm still curious as to how a board-qualified team of surgeons psychiatrists, neurologists, pediatricians, and endocinologists would give in to the whim of a parent over the welfare of a child. Is this really a prevalent phenomenon? If you, someone needs a fucking word with you health regulatory bodies. Links to the mirror don't exactly add clarity.

[Donny osmond]

No-one is born in the wrong body... authored by an endocrinologist from NYU and an evolutionary biologist from Penn State.

https://quillette.com/2019/09/24/no-one ... rong-body/

In most cases, the thing that is now called “gender identity” likely is simply an individual’s perception of how their own sex-related and environmentally influenced personality compares to same and opposite sexed people. Put another way, it’s a self-assessment of one’s stereotypical degree of “masculinity” or “femininity,” and it’s wrongly being conflated with biological sex. This conflation stems from a cultural failure to understand the broad distribution of personalities and preferences within sexes and the overlap between sexes.

When a girl reports that she “feels like a boy” or “is a boy,” that sentiment may reflect her perception of how her personality and preferences compare to the rest of her peers.

...

Historical data suggests that about 0.5% of children develop gender dysphoria—distress caused by a perceived incongruence between one’s biological sex and gender presentation. Reinforcing studies in the medical literature show that, as children get older, childhood-onset gender dysphoria resolves (i.e. ends) in most cases. As two authors put it in a 2016 International Review of Psychiatry article, “the conclusion from these studies is that childhood GD [gender dysphoria] is strongly associated with a lesbian, gay or bisexual outcome and that for the majority of the children (85.2%; 270 out of 317 [studied individuals]) the gender dysphoric feelings remitted around or after puberty.”

[morepork]

Fantastic, another blog.

The NIH recognises the condition, and it is in fact a diagnosis with some identified developmental abnormalities as the cause in many cases. Prenatal hormone exposure has a massive influence on gender behavioral traits. It is not a mental illness.


I can recommend contributions to this issue by recently deceased trans neuroscientists Ben Barres. A shit kicker in the neurosciences and a fearless advocate for gender equality.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-07109-2


Some pretty hefty minds have done a lot of research on the neurodevelopmental correlates of gender identity and can explain it better than I:

https://charlierose.com/collections/3/clip/21056

[Donny osmond]

These are the references for that blog post:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs ... ijop.12529

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/ful ... jopy.12500

[morepork]

These are the references for that blog post:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs ... ijop.12529

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/ful ... jopy.12500

So environments that discriminate against individual genders are less likely to see individuals freely expressing gender-distinct personality traits? Hardly a revelation. I hope they got fuck all funding for that.

[Donny osmond]

And if we're talking about shit-kickers who have a view on this, https://projectnettie.wordpress.com/ is a link to a list of names who have signed up to the idea that biological sex is not a spectrum and that "Attempts to recast biological sex as a social construct, which then becomes a matter of chosen individual identity, are wholly ideological, scientifically inaccurate and socially irresponsible."

Some notable signatories include:

David Curtis. MBChB and PhD Genetics, University of Cambridge, Professor of Genetics at University College London, UK.

Giedre Grigelioniene. MD, PhD. Consultant in Clinical Genetics and Pediatrics, Karolinska University Hospital, Sweden.

Carsten Grötzinger. PhD Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, Humboldt University, Germany.

Antonia Hamilton. BSc Psychology, University of Oxford, UK; PhD Neuroscience, University College London, UK. Professor of Neuroscience, University College London, UK.

Heather E. Heying. PhD Evolutionary Biology, University of Michigan, US. Professor, visiting Fellow at Princeton University

Among many others. This is a broad consensus from a multitude of highly knowledgeable experts in their fields.

[morepork]

That my friend is a list in support of a predetermined agenda and not an objective presentation of empirical information. If I can make a female rat act like a male rat following perinatal exposure to specific hormones, then there is a developmental mechanism for gender dysmorphia.


I'll stick with the Nobel laureates thanks.

[Donny osmond]

Well I guess 2019 just slapped RR on the ass.

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

[Digby]

No-one is born in the wrong body... authored by an endocrinologist from NYU and an evolutionary biologist from Penn State.

https://quillette

And here's where I'd recommend people stop reading. Quillette? Really? Those chucklefucks? "Banning nazis is an attack on conservatism" Quillette?

Quilette, the best a man, woman or unidentified can get?

[Mikey Brown]

I understand how you could make the case some people are just misled by not adhering to gender stereotypes, rather than actually being born in the wrong body. But people stating this as if it applies to a majority of cases, let alone all of them, is just totally retarded.

[Mikey Brown]

I’m not sure if you’re just desperate to find something or someone to disagree with, or you simply didn’t read that properly.

I never suggested any of it was “my call”.

I’m saying there may be cases where it’s more ‘I don’t feel I fit the societal expectations of gender x’ rather than ‘I want to live my life as gender y’. But finding specific scenarios on either end of the spectrum and rigidly applying it to all cases (“no-one is born in the wrong body”) is not going to help anybody. That’s not a contentious statement.

[Donny osmond]

I’m not sure if you’re just desperate to find something or someone to disagree with, or you simply didn’t read that properly.

I never suggested any of it was “my call”.

I’m saying there may be cases where it’s more ‘I don’t feel I fit the societal expectations of gender x’ rather than ‘I want to live my life as gender y’. But finding specific scenarios on either end of the spectrum and rigidly applying it to all cases (“no-one is born in the wrong body”) is not going to help anybody. That’s not a contentious statement.

The reason the guys who wrote that article are so adamant is because they perceive a certain lackadaisical approach to medicalising kids who are encouraged to believe they're in the wrong body. When an Oxford professor of Evidence Based Medicine says, about puberty blockers and gender affirming cross sex hormone, that the current evidence base does not support informed decision making and safe practice in children... it is perhaps understandable that medics on the front line of treatment would take a stand.



Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

[morepork]

“Medicalsation”. Well fuck me.

[Donny osmond]

I’m not sure if you’re just desperate to find something or someone to disagree with, or you simply didn’t read that properly.

I never suggested any of it was “my call”.

I’m saying there may be cases where it’s more ‘I don’t feel I fit the societal expectations of gender x’ rather than ‘I want to live my life as gender y’. But finding specific scenarios on either end of the spectrum and rigidly applying it to all cases (“no-one is born in the wrong body”) is not going to help anybody. That’s not a contentious statement.

Fair enough. It has been a long term.

The reason the guys who wrote that article are so adamant is because they perceive a certain lackadaisical approach to medicalising kids who are encouraged to believe they're in the wrong body. When an Oxford professor of Evidence Based Medicine says, about puberty blockers and gender affirming cross sex hormone, that the current evidence base does not support informed decision making and safe practice in children... it is perhaps understandable that medics on the front line of treatment would take a stand.



Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

Not their call to make (there, that's better). If you honestly think transitioning is something that's done on a whim, I've got some real estate to sell you. And I sure as sugar will not be taking anything published in a rag like Quillette without an ocean's worth of grains of salt.

Some chucklefuck without any knowledge of the individuals and their lived experiences does not get to make that decision for them; I don't care how many letters they have after their names.

I'm not suggesting its done on a whim, I'm saying I think its been done with the best of intentions but that desire to help has blinded us to the absence of evidence.

A Professor of Evidence Based Medicine isnt "some chucklefuck", and the fact that someone who knows these kids and their lived experience is so dismissive of the concerns of experienced and knowledgeable experts reflects exactly the problem with this whole discussion.

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

[Donny osmond]

I’m not sure if you’re just desperate to find something or someone to disagree with, or you simply didn’t read that properly.

I never suggested any of it was “my call”.

I’m saying there may be cases where it’s more ‘I don’t feel I fit the societal expectations of gender x’ rather than ‘I want to live my life as gender y’. But finding specific scenarios on either end of the spectrum and rigidly applying it to all cases (“no-one is born in the wrong body”) is not going to help anybody. That’s not a contentious statement.

Fair enough. It has been a long term.

The reason the guys who wrote that article are so adamant is because they perceive a certain lackadaisical approach to medicalising kids who are encouraged to believe they're in the wrong body. When an Oxford professor of Evidence Based Medicine says, about puberty blockers and gender affirming cross sex hormone, that the current evidence base does not support informed decision making and safe practice in children... it is perhaps understandable that medics on the front line of treatment would take a stand.



Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

Not their call to make (there, that's better). If you honestly think transitioning is something that's done on a whim, I've got some real estate to sell you. And I sure as sugar will not be taking anything published in a rag like Quillette without an ocean's worth of grains of salt.

Some chucklefuck without any knowledge of the individuals and their lived experiences does not get to make that decision for them; I don't care how many letters they have after their names.

I'm not suggesting its done on a whim, I'm saying I think its been done with the best of intentions but that desire to help has blinded us to the absence of evidence.

A Professor of Evidence Based Medicine isnt "some chucklefuck", and the fact that someone who knows these kids and their lived experience is so dismissive of the concerns of experienced and knowledgeable experts reflects exactly the problem with this whole discussion.

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

Another day another couple hundred chucklefucks... https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation ... 2605e8a50d

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

[Donny osmond]

“Medicalsation”. Well fuck me.

Pipe down pops

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5088721/

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

[morepork]

“Medicalsation”. Well fuck me.

Pipe down pops

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5088721/

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

Take your sociology home and come back with some biology, you silly boy. Rmemeber that impact factor metric? International Journal of Health Policy and Management=0.68. That;s practically perforated and presented on a roll.

[Donny osmond]

“Medicalsation”. Well fuck me.

Pipe down pops

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5088721/

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

Take your sociology home and come back with some biology, you silly boy. Rmemeber that impact factor metric? International Journal of Health Policy and Management=0.68. That;s practically perforated and presented on a roll.

You were snarking at the use of the word medicalisation. Its a word used in medical journals, I could just as easily have posted a link to the bmj. Take your bullshit home and come back with some honesty, dickhead.

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

[morepork]

Did someone burglarise your happy pills?

[Donny osmond]

I was briefly unhappified, back on track now tho, thanks

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

[morepork]

I was briefly unhappified, back on track now tho, thanks

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

Qualitage.

[Mellsblue]

I’m feeling mischievous so I’ll leave this here, light the blue touch paper and leave:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news ... 1569691345

Injury fears over rugby’s trans women drive referees off pitch


Rugby referees are quitting the women’s amateur game because they fear rules allowing transgender women to play will lead to serious injuries.

Referees say they have been warned not to challenge bearded or heavily muscled players appearing for women’s teams.

Under the England Rugby rules, transgender women must take a blood test to show that their testosterone has been below a set level (five nanomoles per litre) for 12 months before applying to play. That is half the level set by the International Olympic Committee. But referees say they have to take it on trust rather than check whether a player has been cleared by the Rugby Football Union (RFU).

One, who did not want to be identified, said: “Being forced to prioritise hurt feelings over broken bones exposes me to personal litigation from female players who have been damaged by players who are biologically male. This is driving female players and referees out of the game.”

Another referee, who said they had encountered five bearded players in women’s teams in half a season, said: “If you even ask the question, you are told you are a bigot.”


Last month Kelly Morgan, a trans woman, said she wanted to play in the Welsh women’s leagues despite her physical advantage. “I do feel guilt but what can you do?” she said. Her club captain said she had folded an opponent “like a deckchair”.

Under the laws of the game, a referee is “the sole judge of fact and of law during the match” and is required to remove a player who presents a danger to themselves or others.

The Olympic swimmer Sharron Davies, who is urging Olympic chiefs not to use women’s sport as a “live experiment” for the inclusion of transgender athletes, said rugby appeared to be operating a double standard.

She said: “My daughter Grace was told at the age of 11 she could no longer play with the boys because it was no longer safe. How can they have that rule in place and . . . say it is perfectly OK for a transgender woman who is a biological man to play with the girls, but girls who are girls are not allowed to play with the boys because it is dangerous?”

A Swedish study found that after 12 months of hormone therapy, a trans woman was still likely to have performance benefits over one whose gender identity matched their sex at birth.

The RFU refused to say how many trans people it had authorised to play in their identified gender. It also did not respond to questions about injuries involving women and trans players.

It said:“The RFU policy is derived from and aligned to the principles and application of the World Rugby transgender policy.”

Dr Nicola Williams of Fair Play for Women said:“They have been put under tremendous pressure by well funded and powerful trans lobby groups telling them it is inclusion at any cost.”

[Coco]

I’m feeling mischievous so I’ll leave this here, light the blue touch paper and leave:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news ... 1569691345

Injury fears over rugby’s trans women drive referees off pitch


Rugby referees are quitting the women’s amateur game because they fear rules allowing transgender women to play will lead to serious injuries.

Referees say they have been warned not to challenge bearded or heavily muscled players appearing for women’s teams.

Under the England Rugby rules, transgender women must take a blood test to show that their testosterone has been below a set level (five nanomoles per litre) for 12 months before applying to play. That is half the level set by the International Olympic Committee. But referees say they have to take it on trust rather than check whether a player has been cleared by the Rugby Football Union (RFU).

One, who did not want to be identified, said: “Being forced to prioritise hurt feelings over broken bones exposes me to personal litigation from female players who have been damaged by players who are biologically male. This is driving female players and referees out of the game.”

Another referee, who said they had encountered five bearded players in women’s teams in half a season, said: “If you even ask the question, you are told you are a bigot.”


Last month Kelly Morgan, a trans woman, said she wanted to play in the Welsh women’s leagues despite her physical advantage. “I do feel guilt but what can you do?” she said. Her club captain said she had folded an opponent “like a deckchair”.

Under the laws of the game, a referee is “the sole judge of fact and of law during the match” and is required to remove a player who presents a danger to themselves or others.

The Olympic swimmer Sharron Davies, who is urging Olympic chiefs not to use women’s sport as a “live experiment” for the inclusion of transgender athletes, said rugby appeared to be operating a double standard.

She said: “My daughter Grace was told at the age of 11 she could no longer play with the boys because it was no longer safe. How can they have that rule in place and . . . say it is perfectly OK for a transgender woman who is a biological man to play with the girls, but girls who are girls are not allowed to play with the boys because it is dangerous?”

A Swedish study found that after 12 months of hormone therapy, a trans woman was still likely to have performance benefits over one whose gender identity matched their sex at birth.

The RFU refused to say how many trans people it had authorised to play in their identified gender. It also did not respond to questions about injuries involving women and trans players.

It said:“The RFU policy is derived from and aligned to the principles and application of the World Rugby transgender policy.”

Dr Nicola Williams of Fair Play for Women said:“They have been put under tremendous pressure by well funded and powerful trans lobby groups telling them it is inclusion at any cost.”

Another bottle of red?

I am looking at this picture thinking... a beard?! I mean... as a woman and a former athlete (not professional), I view sporting a beard while this equality issue is still raw, undecided, and in its first stages of being accepted is really nervy and insulting to be honest. I really have empathy for trans women in this arena, but when I see this, it feels more of a slap in the face, and a "haha in your face" type of sentiment. Women dont have beards... be respectful and shave it off if youre fighting the good fight trying to get everyone on board with you, and understand your struggle. What a farce this is turning out to be and frankly, losing credibility with shit like this.

[Son of Mathonwy]

It certainly seems a little strange that someone who identifies as a woman would choose to wear a beard.

(Nonetheless, obviously it is their right to do so etc etc)

[Coco]

It certainly seems a little strange that someone who identifies as a woman would choose to wear a beard.

(Nonetheless, obviously it is their right to do so etc etc)

You are correct, I would imagine it is within their rights to wear a beard. That said, by doing so, it would be within the rights of anybody to deem this whole issue a farce without being labeled a bigot.

/queue the sjw