RugbyRebels

Hahahahaha, the "they're doing it too!" excuse. I'll tell you what I told one of my students who tried that the other day. It's tantamount to an admission, because all we hear is "yep, guilty as charged."

You're not a 14 year-old are you, rowan?

cashead wrote:Hahahahaha, the "they're doing it too!" excuse. I'll tell you what I told one of my students who tried that the other day. It's tantamount to an admission, because all we hear is "yep, guilty as charged."

You're not a 14 year-old are you, rowan?

You could also say we did it first and that's how they learned it..

[quote="rowan"][/quote

And you could probably find something similar for Soviet/Russian & KGB/FSB military involment since WWII, so what?

belgarion wrote:

rowan wrote:[/quote

And you could probably find something similar for Soviet/Russian & KGB/FSB military involment since WWII, so what?

No you couldn't, and especially not for Russia, as you well know. We'd have to go back to the British Empire to find something on a similar scale to this. Dozens of countries bombed, scores more manipulated, tens of millions dead and hundreds of millions adversely effected. & you say "so what?" Fine for you, of course...

rowan wrote:

belgarion wrote:

rowan wrote:[/quote

And you could probably find something similar for Soviet/Russian & KGB/FSB military involment since WWII, so what?

No you couldn't, and especially not for Russia, as you well know. We'd have to go back to the British Empire to find something on a similar scale to this. Dozens of countries bombed, scores more manipulated, tens of millions dead and hundreds of millions adversely effected. & you say "so what?" Fine for you, of course...

So let me get this right, you are claiming the only two nations ever to militarially, politically or covertly intervene in other
countries are the US & UK? You, my friend, are the 2nd most delusional person to post on RR (UG was the most).
All countries do it/have done it to greater or lesser extents, have you never heard of 'The Great Game'?

belgarion wrote:

rowan wrote:

belgarion wrote:

No you couldn't, and especially not for Russia, as you well know. We'd have to go back to the British Empire to find something on a similar scale to this. Dozens of countries bombed, scores more manipulated, tens of millions dead and hundreds of millions adversely effected. & you say "so what?" Fine for you, of course...

So let me get this right, you are claiming the only two nations ever to militarially, politically or covertly intervene in other
countries are the US & UK? You, my friend, are the 2nd most delusional person to post on RR (UG was the most).
All countries do it/have done it to greater or lesser extents, have you never heard of 'The Great Game'?

No, that's not what I claimed at all. You could only have arrived at that conclusion by ignoring the bulk of what I had written We'd have to go back to the British Empire to find something on a similar scale to this. Dozens of countries bombed, scores more manipulated, tens of millions dead and hundreds of millions adversely effected. So before you accuse others of being delusional, you need to stop twisting words and ignoring what has actually been written. & UG was a lot smarter and more knowledgeable than you, my friend.

rowan wrote:

belgarion wrote:

rowan wrote:
No you couldn't, and especially not for Russia, as you well know. We'd have to go back to the British Empire to find something on a similar scale to this. Dozens of countries bombed, scores more manipulated, tens of millions dead and hundreds of millions adversely effected. & you say "so what?" Fine for you, of course...

So let me get this right, you are claiming the only two nations ever to militarially, politically or covertly intervene in other
countries are the US & UK? You, my friend, are the 2nd most delusional person to post on RR (UG was the most).
All countries do it/have done it to greater or lesser extents, have you never heard of 'The Great Game'?

No, that's not what I claimed at all. You could only have arrived at that conclusion by ignoring the bulk of what I had written We'd have to go back to the British Empire to find something on a similar scale to this. Dozens of countries bombed, scores more manipulated, tens of millions dead and hundreds of millions adversely effected. So before you accuse others of being delusional, you need to stop twisting words and ignoring what has actually been written. & UG was a lot smarter and more knowledgeable than you, my friend.

His cut and paste ability was legendary.

rowan wrote:

belgarion wrote:

rowan wrote:
No you couldn't, and especially not for Russia, as you well know. We'd have to go back to the British Empire to find something on a similar scale to this. Dozens of countries bombed, scores more manipulated, tens of millions dead and hundreds of millions adversely effected. & you say "so what?" Fine for you, of course...

So let me get this right, you are claiming the only two nations ever to militarially, politically or covertly intervene in other
countries are the US & UK? You, my friend, are the 2nd most delusional person to post on RR (UG was the most).
All countries do it/have done it to greater or lesser extents, have you never heard of 'The Great Game'?

No, that's not what I claimed at all. You could only have arrived at that conclusion by ignoring the bulk of what I had written We'd have to go back to the British Empire to find something on a similar scale to this. Dozens of countries bombed, scores more manipulated, tens of millions dead and hundreds of millions adversely effected. So before you accuse others of being delusional, you need to stop twisting words and ignoring what has actually been written. & UG was a lot smarter and more knowledgeable than you, my friend.

You could go back to the USSR era to find something comparable, as you well know. In fact, Russia is now trying to resurrect that 'influence', as you well know, in its near abroad. If it had the same global reach as the US, it would be doing exactly the same. Incidents in Georgia, Ukraine, Estonia point to hat clear enough.

Sandydragon wrote:

rowan wrote:

belgarion wrote:
So let me get this right, you are claiming the only two nations ever to militarially, politically or covertly intervene in other
countries are the US & UK? You, my friend, are the 2nd most delusional person to post on RR (UG was the most).
All countries do it/have done it to greater or lesser extents, have you never heard of 'The Great Game'?

No, that's not what I claimed at all. You could only have arrived at that conclusion by ignoring the bulk of what I had written We'd have to go back to the British Empire to find something on a similar scale to this. Dozens of countries bombed, scores more manipulated, tens of millions dead and hundreds of millions adversely effected. So before you accuse others of being delusional, you need to stop twisting words and ignoring what has actually been written. & UG was a lot smarter and more knowledgeable than you, my friend.

You could go back to the USSR era to find something comparable, as you well know. In fact, Russia is now trying to resurrect that 'influence', as you well know, in its near abroad. If it had the same global reach as the US, it would be doing exactly the same. Incidents in Georgia, Ukraine, Estonia point to hat clear enough.

As you well know, the USSR did not even approach that scale, and did not bomb multitudes of countries on other continents.As for Russia, there is simply no comparison. Nevertheless, pointing the finger at others is only denialism and never justification.

rowan wrote:

belgarion wrote:

rowan wrote:
No you couldn't, and especially not for Russia, as you well know. We'd have to go back to the British Empire to find something on a similar scale to this. Dozens of countries bombed, scores more manipulated, tens of millions dead and hundreds of millions adversely effected. & you say "so what?" Fine for you, of course...

So let me get this right, you are claiming the only two nations ever to militarially, politically or covertly intervene in other
countries are the US & UK? You, my friend, are the 2nd most delusional person to post on RR (UG was the most).
All countries do it/have done it to greater or lesser extents, have you never heard of 'The Great Game'?

No, that's not what I claimed at all. You could only have arrived at that conclusion by ignoring the bulk of what I had written We'd have to go back to the British Empire to find something on a similar scale to this. Dozens of countries bombed, scores more manipulated, tens of millions dead and hundreds of millions adversely effected. So before you accuse others of being delusional, you need to stop twisting words and ignoring what has actually been written. & UG was a lot smarter and more knowledgeable than you, my friend.

Yes, which was engaged with Russia for most of the 19th century in 'The Great Game' (started 1830 finished 1895)for control of Afghanistan &
neighbouring territories. So don;t tell me that Russia has taken part in these sort of shenanigans before or since.

I have read what you have posted but, as has been posted before on numerous occasions & by numerous posters, you only tend to
right denunciations of the US/UK & praise & admiration for Russia no matter what other evidence is presented. In this I find you the
most bigoted poster on here. You do on a occasion post some interesting & thought provoking stuff (your thread on Turkey for example)
but the vast majority of your posts I just find depressing (particularly those on the 'Funny Images' thread in the Crooked feed)


ps before you get all high & mighty: OED definition of 'bigoted' obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, and intolerant towards other people's beliefs and practices.

pps bigoted can also be applied to other posters on here not just you

The Great Game, as you state, was about Afghanistan. So how on earth does Russian involvement in that affair put it on the same scale as the British Empire in terms of countries attacked and invaded? Do we see Russian involvement throughout Africa? Do we see it throughout the Americas? Do we see it in Australia and the Pacific Islands?

Countries invaded by Britain (in pink)



Soviet Union (doesn't go beyond Eurasia)



US military bases around the world



Russian military bases around the world



The rest of your post was ad hominems . . .

rowan wrote:The Great Game, as you state, was about Afghanistan. So how on earth does Russian involvement in that affair put it on the same scale as the British Empire in terms of countries attacked and invaded? Do we see Russian involvement throughout Africa? Do we see it throughout the Americas? Do we see it in Australia and the Pacific Islands?

Countries invaded by Britain (in pink)



Soviet Union (doesn't go beyond Eurasia)



US military bases around the world



Russian military bases around the world



The rest of your post was ad hominems . . .

It doesn't & I never said it did. What I did say was your refusal to accept that Russia/Soviet Union/Russia has also invaded, subverted
influenced sovereign nations throughout history & that that too was wrong

Where are the US military bases and troops in NZ? Is it the Antarctic base at Christchurch airport?

belgarion wrote:

rowan wrote:The Great Game, as you state, was about Afghanistan. So how on earth does Russian involvement in that affair put it on the same scale as the British Empire in terms of countries attacked and invaded? Do we see Russian involvement throughout Africa? Do we see it throughout the Americas? Do we see it in Australia and the Pacific Islands?

Countries invaded by Britain (in pink)



Soviet Union (doesn't go beyond Eurasia)



US military bases around the world



Russian military bases around the world



The rest of your post was ad hominems . . .

It doesn't & I never said it did. What I did say was your refusal to accept that Russia/Soviet Union/Russia has also invaded, subverted
influenced sovereign nations throughout history & that that too was wrong

So you're back to twisting my words again. What part of not on the same scale didn't you understand?

For the record, America currently has 662 military bases in 38 foreign countries, spread across every continent, and mostly surrounding Russia and China. Russia has 10 military bases abroad, none of them anywhere near America, and only two of them not in neighbouring countries.

Trying to draw a comparison between the UK's historic colonial adventures and the USSR is disingenuous a.f., bro. One lasted 5 Centuries, the other couldn't even get through 1. It's a false equivalence if there ever was one.

cashead wrote:Trying to draw a comparison between the UK's historic colonial adventures and the USSR is disingenuous a.f., bro. One lasted 5 Centuries, the other couldn't even get through 1. It's a false equivalence if there ever was one.

Precisely my point. Thank you

morepork wrote:Where are the US military bases and troops in NZ? Is it the Antarctic base at Christchurch airport?

I would have liked a bit more digging into this. Not militaristic but...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/artic ... d=11325214

jared_7 wrote:

morepork wrote:Where are the US military bases and troops in NZ? Is it the Antarctic base at Christchurch airport?

I would have liked a bit more digging into this. Not militaristic but...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/artic ... d=11325214

True. Waihopai is almost certainly part of the system. Set up by Lange, incidentally. Was upgraded just before John's Keys got elected.

rowan wrote:

cashead wrote:Trying to draw a comparison between the UK's historic colonial adventures and the USSR is disingenuous a.f., bro. One lasted 5 Centuries, the other couldn't even get through 1. It's a false equivalence if there ever was one.

Precisely my point. Thank you

Then why did you try to draw the comparison to begin with?


Edit: That's a rhetorical question, by the way. We both know why.

cashead wrote:

rowan wrote:

cashead wrote:Trying to draw a comparison between the UK's historic colonial adventures and the USSR is disingenuous a.f., bro. One lasted 5 Centuries, the other couldn't even get through 1. It's a false equivalence if there ever was one.

Precisely my point. Thank you

Then why did you try to draw the comparison to begin with?




Edit: That's a rhetorical question, by the way. We both know why.

You need to read the thread properly.

cashead wrote:Trying to draw a comparison between the UK's historic colonial adventures and the USSR is disingenuous a.f., bro. One lasted 5 Centuries, the other couldn't even get through 1. It's a false equivalence if there ever was one.

I was hoping to highlight to Rowan that the comparison would be made between the USSR and US in the Cold War. You could look at Russian expansion in the centuries before if one wished.

Key point, its not just the US that expands or influences other countries. Strong countries have made their presence known over weaker ones throughout history. Blaming one country over others is historically dishonest.

Blaming one country over others is historically dishonest.

This is denialism, pure and simple.


& imagine their consternation upon realizing they had inadvertently supported my view, not opposed it, and in their failure to read the thread properly had wrongly attributed another's wayward comparisons to me.

So, sorry for bursting your bubble, chaps, but I was the one saying there was no comparison...

rowan wrote:Blaming one country over others is historically dishonest.

This is denialism, pure and simple.


& imagine their consternation upon realizing they had inadvertently supported my view, not opposed it, and in their failure to read the thread properly had wrongly attributed another's wayward comparisons to me.

So, sorry for bursting your bubble, chaps, but I was the one saying there was no comparison...

Yes, it I denialism. So why do you insist on doing it? There are plenty of war crimes committed today by other countries, yet you maintain your focus on the US.

rowan wrote:

belgarion wrote:

rowan wrote:The Great Game, as you state, was about Afghanistan. So how on earth does Russian involvement in that affair put it on the same scale as the British Empire in terms of countries attacked and invaded? Do we see Russian involvement throughout Africa? Do we see it throughout the Americas? Do we see it in Australia and the Pacific Islands?

Countries invaded by Britain (in pink)



Soviet Union (doesn't go beyond Eurasia)



US military bases around the world



Russian military bases around the world



The rest of your post was ad hominems . . .

It doesn't & I never said it did. What I did say was your refusal to accept that Russia/Soviet Union/Russia has also invaded, subverted
influenced sovereign nations throughout history & that that too was wrong

So you're back to twisting my words again. What part of not on the same scale didn't you understand?

For the record, America currently has 662 military bases in 38 foreign countries, spread across every continent, and mostly surrounding Russia and China. Russia has 10 military bases abroad, none of them anywhere near America, and only two of them not in neighbouring countries.

So what when they are invited to place troops in that country? Has it occurred to you that many countries want US troops on their territory, even if only a token effort, because they are worried about action by someone else?