Bonkers brilliance

[rowan]

So you've effectively conceded your own comments were infantile. That was the whole point in throwing them back at you.

Anyway, I wonder what the point of this Babachenko charade was. It's hard to see it as anything but yet another really silly attempt to discredit Putin & Russia in the wake of NATO's failed regime change operation in Syria - and with the 2018 World Cup drawing ever closer. But surely legal action ought to be taken against this journalist for blatant misrepresentation of facts.

[Stones of granite]

So you've effectively conceded your own comments were infantile. That was the whole point in throwing them back at you.

Anyway, I wonder what the point of this Babachenko charade was. It's hard to see it as anything but yet another really silly attempt to discredit Putin & Russia in the wake of NATO's failed regime change operation in Syria - and with the 2018 World Cup drawing ever closer. But surely legal action ought to be taken against this journalist for blatant misrepresentation of facts.

Perhaps it hasn't been explained in simple enough terms for a big bairn like you, but the Babachenko "charade" was reportedly an attempt by the Ukrainian intelligence services to flush out whoever was behind the recruitment of the agent to murder him. It wasn't really aimed at Putin or Russia at all, unless, of course, it turns out that they were actually behind it.

ETA: in any case, it wouldn’t be surprising if the Ukrainians were a little anti-Russian, people tend to get that way with countries that support insurgents in their country and annex parts of it by armed force.

[rowan]

Wow, sounds like you really think this guy did a great job!

Put a saucer of cream in front of him and watch him lap it up.

& supporting insurgents in other countries is standard NATO practice. For example, it just resulted in at least half a million deaths in Syria. No doubt you thought that was a good job too...until those dastardly Russians came along and put a stop to it

[Stones of granite]

Wow, sounds like you really think this guy did a great job!

You have a strange way of interpreting English. I expressed no opinion whatsoever. For what it’s worth, I think it was entitle cackhanded and misconceived, but that doesn’t mean that your interpretation of it as solely a way pf discrediting your man-rush is correct.

Put a saucer of cream in front of him and watch him lap it up.

Yeah exactly.

& supporting insurgents in other countries is standard NATO practice. For example, it just resulted in at least half a million deaths in Syria. No doubt you thought that was a good job too...until those dastardly Russians came along and put a stop to it

Yawn! Tired old whataboutery. So if you believe this, you’ll understand why Ukraine is a little bit pissed off with your man-crush and Russia for invading Donbas and annexing Crimea under arms.

[rowan]

Your view of the Crimea is extremely warped and prejudiced. That's because you are brainwashed by the propaganda of the most warmongering, evil nation of the past few centuries. The majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russians. Alarmed by Ukranian Neo Nazis burning ethnic Russians alive in the streets of Odessa, they hastily arranged to vote for a return to Russia and did so overwhelmingly.

So NATO's latest rapacious war in the Middle East, using terrorists as shock troops and resulting in over half a million deaths (perhaps twice that number) is a whataboutism to you. I suppose the estimated two million deaths in Iraq was a whataboutism to you as well. & I'm sure that the estimated 8 million deaths brought about by NATO wars and interventions in the Middle East since the start of the 1990s is a whataboutism for you too.

& your own comments clearly indicated you supported the fraudulent actions of the anti-Russian journalist. If you can't make yourself more clearly understood, you probably need to go right back to kindergarten and learn the basic building blocks of language from the start again. You might also find some like-minded companionship there.

[Stones of granite]

Your view of the Crimea is extremely warped and prejudiced. That's because you are brainwashed by the propaganda of the most warmongering, evil nation of the past few centuries. The majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russians. Alarmed by Ukranian Neo Nazis burning ethnic Russians alive in the streets of Odessa, they hastily arranged to vote for a return to Russia and did so overwhelmingly.

So NATO's latest rapacious war in the Middle East, using terrorists as shock troops and resulting in over half a million deaths (perhaps twice that number) is a whataboutism to you. I suppose the estimated two million deaths in Iraq was a whataboutism to you as well. & I'm sure that the estimated 8 million deaths brought about by NATO wars and interventions in the Middle East since the start of the 1990s is a whataboutism for you too.

& your own comments clearly indicated you supported the fraudulent actions of the anti-Russian journalist. If you can't make yourself more clearly understood, you probably need to go right back to kindergarten and learn the basic building blocks of language from the start again. You might also find some like-minded companionship there.

Justify your last comment or be damned as a liar. What specifically did I write that gave the impression to you that I supported the actions of the Russian journalist.Be specific. Your normal vague generalisations are insufficient.

Your revisionist version of the chronography of the Russian armed annexation of Ukrainian Crimea says more about your willfull gullibility for Russian propopagand and your main-love for Putin than it does about the actual historical facts.

The truth is that Crimea was invaded by the 45th Guards Independent Reconnaissance Brigade of the VDV in uniforms with insignia removed in contravention of international law, who took control of the local parliament, airport and military establishments before forcing a “referendum”at gunpoint. The operation was initially denied by Moscow but later admitted to.

Tyrants rely on fools like you to be overawed by their masculinity and repeat their distortions so that they can justify their illegal acts.

[rowan]

You need to do something about your Russophobic prejudice, Stones of Cowardice. You've clearly been brainwashed by the propaganda industry of the most warmongering, evil nation of the past few centuries. Committing genocide, rape, torture, child mutilation, etc, all around the world, did not make the British superior, it made them morally inferior. So spare me the Pomsplaining; I am a neutral with a far clearer perspective than you could ever hope to have.

What occurred in the Crimea is also crystal clear to those whose view is not distorted by a massive chip on the shoulder. The Crimeans themselves voted for it. That's called democracy - something the West fears and hates when it flourishes outside of Europe and North America, evidently. They did so because your Neo Nazi brethren in the Ukraine were attacking their ethnic Russian kinsmen in the streets of Ukraine and burning them alive. The only referendum at gunpoint was the madness inside your own pea-sized brain.

So reclaiming the Crimea under those circumstances was a contravention of international law, was it? You mean, like invading and destroying an entire swathe of nations across the Middle East, killing millions of people? You mean like, supporting Apartheid and the ethnic cleansing of the native Palestinians? You mean like, trading arms with a monarchical dictatorship which is bombing civilian targets willy-nilly, resulting in widespread famine and disease? Britain's list of war crimes even in the present completely dwarfs Russia's, while America's has reached a level all of its own.

So who is the lover or tyrants here? It seems that one is you

[Stones of granite]

You need to do something about your Russophobic prejudice, Stones of Cowardice. You've clearly been brainwashed by the propaganda industry of the most warmongering, evil nation of the past few centuries. Committing genocide, rape, torture, child mutilation, etc, all around the world, did not make the British superior, it made them morally inferior. So spare me the Pomsplaining; I am a neutral with a far clearer perspective than you could ever hope to have.

What occurred in the Crimea is also crystal clear to those whose view is not distorted by a massive chip on the shoulder. The Crimeans themselves voted for it. That's called democracy - something the West fears and hates when it flourishes outside of Europe and North America, evidently. They did so because your Neo Nazi brethren in the Ukraine were attacking their ethnic Russian kinsmen in the streets of Ukraine and burning them alive. The only referendum at gunpoint was the madness inside your own pea-sized brain.

So reclaiming the Crimea under those circumstances was a contravention of international law, was it? You mean, like invading and destroying an entire swathe of nations across the Middle East, killing millions of people? You mean like, supporting Apartheid and the ethnic cleansing of the native Palestinians? You mean like, trading arms with a monarchical dictatorship which is bombing civilian targets willy-nilly, resulting in widespread famine and disease? Britain's list of war crimes even in the present completely dwarfs Russia's, while America's has reached a level all of its own.

So who is the lover or tyrants here? It seems that one is you

What happened in Crimea is crystal clear to anyone with any semblance of objectivity.
1. An armed force with all identification insignia removed in contravention of international law, invaded and took control of the Crimean peninsula
2. The country to which that armed force belonged, and under which it was directly controlled, denied both the identity and their involvement with the armed force.
3. The armed force then held a faux-referendum at gunpoint, to create a fig leaf of credibility
4. Russia later admitted that the armed force was there's and passed a law annexing Crimea to the Russian Federation in contravention of the Budapest Memorandum in which the integrity of Ukraine's sovereign territory is guaranteed.

No amount of whataboutery changes these facts.

[rowan]

So the ethnic Russian majority of Crimea were forced to vote for a return to Russia - at gunpoint - even as their ethnic kinsmen were being burnt to death by Ukranian Neo Nazis in Odessa. Wow even the BBC is more honest than you - and that's really saying something:

Crimea referendum: Voters 'back Russia union'

Some 95.5% of voters in Crimea have supported joining Russia in a disputed referendum, officials announce, after half the votes have been counted.

Crimea's leader says he will apply to join Russia on Monday. Russia's Vladimir Putin has said he will respect the Crimean people's wishes.
Many Crimeans loyal to Kiev boycotted the referendum, and the EU and US condemned it as illegal.
Pro-Russian forces took control of Crimea in February.
Ben Brown reports from Simferopol.

[Stones of granite]

So the ethnic Russian majority of Crimea were forced to vote for a return to Russia - at gunpoint - even as their ethnic kinsmen were being burnt to death by Ukranian Neo Nazis in Odessa. Wow even the BBC is more honest than you - and that's really saying something:

Crimea referendum: Voters 'back Russia union'

Some 95.5% of voters in Crimea have supported joining Russia in a disputed referendum, officials announce, after half the votes have been counted.

Crimea's leader says he will apply to join Russia on Monday. Russia's Vladimir Putin has said he will respect the Crimean people's wishes.
Many Crimeans loyal to Kiev boycotted the referendum, and the EU and US condemned it as illegal.
Pro-Russian forces took control of Crimea in February.
Ben Brown reports from Simferopol.

You really will swallow everything that Putin ejaculates, won't you.
A referendum at gunpoint is no referendum.

[rowan]

Hate to break it to you, Stones of Cowardice, but that's how democracy works. It's far from a perfect system, but the majority hold the power. Crimean Tatars are about 12% of the population, which is roughly equivalent to Maori in New Zealand and African-Americans in the US, but I haven't seen you ranting and raving about how those particular minorities are getting screwed over by this dastardly democratic (ie majority rule) political system.

Russian forces accordingly took control of the peninsula from their Ukranian counterparts; a pre-condition that Moscow be provided with free and unimpeded access to its long-standing, vital naval base at Sevastopol now coming under serious threat with the US-orchestrated bloody coup in Kiev and subsequent civil war (mostly massacres of ethnic Russians). Another fine mess created by the US.

The BBC, being the state broadcaster of one of the most evil, warmongering nations on the planet, naturally included any negative points it could find in its report, but even they placed the emphasis on the overwhelming support shown by the majority of Crimeans for a return to Russia - where as you completely ignored it, as it didn't suit your preconceived, deep-rooted Russophobic hatreds (did you even open the link and see the video of the wild celebrations)?

By the way, NATO-led Coalition forces killed another 17 civilians in Syria last night. Still determined to kill as many people as they can before withdrawing entirely, having been stopped in their tracks by the Russian-Iranian-Syrian alliance.

[SerjeantWildgoose]

MH17.

[morepork]

MH17.

Justice 4 Bakkies.

[rowan]

We know who the experts in shooting down passenger jets are:

[SerjeantWildgoose]

PanAm103/Locherbie.

If we are just going to lock ourselves in a bidding war of passenger aircraft blown out of the sky by people we think are cunts, I suspect you will run out of chips long before I do.

[Buggaluggs]

PanAm103/Locherbie.

If we are just going to lock ourselves in a bidding war of passenger aircraft blown out of the sky by people we think are cunts, I suspect you will run out of chips long before I do.

Don't forget that you're playing with real chips and rowan is playing with an unlimited supply of imaginary chips

[morepork]

Sky cunts.

[rowan]

PanAm103/Locherbie.

If we are just going to lock ourselves in a bidding war of passenger aircraft blown out of the sky by people we think are cunts, I suspect you will run out of chips long before I do.

Well, you did raise the subject, old boy. I could simply point at the estimated 8 million deaths American-led wars and interventions have created across the Middle East as undeniable proof of that nation's incomparable evil. & don't get too smug about who would run out of chips in this discussion either.

Locherbie? Wasn't that Gaddafi's retaliation to the downing of the Iranian passenger jet several months before, that America refused to apologise for because George Bush Sr was not an apologize-for-America kind of guy? What's that got to do with a thread about an anti-Putin journalist's fraudulent stunt with Ukranian assistance?

& if we consider America's close allies. you will recall that Israel downed a Libyan passenger jet (114) in 1973.

Meanwhile, the CIA-orchestrated bombing of a Cuban passenger jet in 1976 was the worst act of terrorism in the Western Hemisphere prior to 9/11 (depending on how you define terrorism, of course). In fact, I read the other day that the CIA-trained operative in charge of that operation has died peacefully in his home in Miami at age 90, having never faced trial for either that atrocity nor the string of hotels he also bombed.

& of course, you do know the Ukraine shot down a Russian passenger jet in 2001. So it's certainly not beyond the realms of possibility that they were responsible for MH17 as well.

[SerjeantWildgoose]

Don't forget that you're playing with real chips and rowan is playing with an unlimited supply of imaginary chips

Ah, true. I never thought of that. Here’s me funding my air-atrocity-cunt gambling addiction from the bank of hard fact, while Rowan is able to bump up the stakes with the limitless mountains of deregulated conspiracy theorist currency and fantasist Russo-felching roubles minted in whatever sub-prime mush it is that passes for his own deluded brain.

[morepork]

Lick my sack.


Old boy.

[rowan]

& straight to the ad hominems he goes, must win the debate, but no real interest in the subject at all...

[SerjeantWildgoose]

I can't help feeling that my ad hominems aren't as clear as they should be.

Rowan, I see no point whatever in attempting to engage upon a reasoned debate with you as you are a deluded twat who, terrier like, manages to grasp the wrong end of absolutely any and every stick offered. It is now an abundantly obvious FACT that whatever view I might bring into these pages, within the space of the first few lines of any post from you, my position is altered to one of merely wishing to stir up the bile that sloshes around somewhere within that part of your brain that the remainder of us reserve for the formation and exercise of reason.

[morepork]

Low and hard like a terriers kok.

[SerjeantWildgoose]

For your edification:

I believe that the Russian claim to the Black Sea ports had as little validity as Britain's claim to the so-called Treaty Ports and that this, along with the largely-fabricated stories of atrocities committed against ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine served merely as a pretext for an illegal invasion of sovereign territory.

I believe that the overthrow of the legitimately elected Ukrainian authority was also illegal, but there are internationally accepted interventions that can be initiated that are a legitimate response. Land-grab invasions are not among those legitimate responses even if allegedly in support of their own paid-for puppet, Yanukovych.

The Russian invasion, rather clumsily dressed up as a counter revolution by Russo-Ukrainian rebels, was a matter of international criminality.

The shooting down of MH17 was criminal and was enabled by the Russian supply of a BUK missile to 'insurgents' who had neither the capability nor the restraint to use such a weapon without endangering civilian lives.

8 million dead as consequence of US invasions? Try fecking off and putting the vast majority down where they belong, to the sectarian savagery that was never quite and still isn't suppressed despite the vicious oppression of dictatorial fuck-stains like Saddam, Gaddafi and Assad.

[rowan]

Spare me the arrogant opening comments, because I am far more properly informed on this issue than you, evidently. In fact, you also have only expressed your disdain for democracy and the will of the majority. & you, also, appear ignorant of the terms under which the Ukraine was gifted the Crimea in the first place.

Yes, regime change operations are illegal - and by no means was it acceptable by any moral standards given the replacement was a corrupt oligarch, the method involved mass murder, and the outcome was civil war.

The shooting down of MH17 was indeed criminal, as was America's shooting down of an Iranian passenger jet in 1988, the CIA-orchestrated shooting down of a Cuban passenger jet in 1976 and Israel's shooting down of a Libyan passenger jet in 1973. But there is no proof of culpability. Russia says the Ukraine did it (there is a precedent. 2001). A Dutch report (Holland is a founding member of NATO) says it was the Russians. You have only shown your Russophobic prejudice by accepting the NATO member's report without question.

Your comments on the consequences of US invasions are akin to genocide denial. The West aided and abetted Saddam in the worst of his crimes, supplying the chemical weapons he used against the Iranians and Kurds, and it also backed Gaddafi when it suited them. But even that pair were smallfry compared with the rapacious, genocidal antics of America and Britain around the world. & your brainwashed parroting of the warmongering media's propaganda on Assad smacks of Islamophobia. If it's a Middle Eastern leader must be evil, wot, old boy!