RugbyRebels

Billyfish wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Billyfish wrote: If we met again tomorrow we probably thump them.

Master baiter!

Hardly, the post is a bit OTT, congrats and all that but it's no use pretending that this is a new dawn or most teams in the tournament weren't below par.

cough

Billyfish wrote: Hardly, the post is a bit OTT, congrats and all that but it's no use pretending that this is a new dawn or most teams in the tournament weren't below par.

I only go as far back as 1990 watching the event, but I can't think of a year that most teams actually played well, which suggests being rather poor is par. Often the winner is rather poor, but luckily most people aren't watching for the rugby

oldbackrow wrote:

Billyfish wrote: Hardly, the post is a bit OTT, congrats and all that but it's no use pretending that this is a new dawn or most teams in the tournament were below par.

Not sure anyone (other than the usual suspects) thinks other than a small step forward from the unfortunate RWC showing not the dawning of a new era. A new coach can have an effect without doing anything with the same players You guys have been there and seen it! Bearing in mind I would say the other teams were better last 6N, it is still an achievement to win a Grand Slam. Despite some self proclaimers, very few believe that a Grand Slam can in any way be 'devalued'. There are a number of the games which were won but with serious issues; both Ireland and Wales would, I believe have been put to the sword quite easily by New Zealand, with the way they played, Italy made us work until late on, as did Scotland and everyone knows France were poor the whole tournament.

Still onwards and upwards! Hopefully Wales can go to New Zealand and catch them rusty in the first test and play like they can, if so I can see them coming away 2-1 down. I think England will come away from Aus 2-1 down as well!

I agree. Though don't see the relevance of NZ or OZ? I was addressing this particular post.

Banquo wrote:

Billyfish wrote:

Banquo wrote: Master baiter!

Hardly, the post is a bit OTT, congrats and all that but it's no use pretending that this is a new dawn or most teams in the tournament weren't below par.

cough

?? The post I was addressing was exaggerating the difference between the teams. Nothing wrong with the assumption that if we were to play closer to potential we'd win? After all, we were shit for 80% of the game and yet only lost by a small margin.

Billyfish wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Billyfish wrote:
Hardly, the post is a bit OTT, congrats and all that but it's no use pretending that this is a new dawn or most teams in the tournament weren't below par.

cough

?? The post I was addressing was exaggerating the difference between the teams. Nothing wrong with the assumption that if we were to play closer to potential we'd win? After all, we shit for 80% of the game and yet only lost by a small margin.

hmm..ok...so probably thump actually meant we might win. Just looked like a bit of bait to me, but hey.

Digby wrote:

Billyfish wrote: Hardly, the post is a bit OTT, congrats and all that but it's no use pretending that this is a new dawn or most teams in the tournament weren't below par.

I only go as far back as 1990 watching the event, but I can't think of a year that most teams actually played well, which suggests being rather poor is par. Often the winner is rather poor, but luckily most people aren't watching for the rugby

I don't think there has ever been a year where more than three teams have been in with a shout. Two or three has been the norm of late.

Billyfish wrote: ?? The post I was addressing was exaggerating the difference between the teams. Nothing wrong with the assumption that if we were to play closer to potential we'd win? After all, we shit for 80% of the game and yet only lost by a small margin.

Billy, are you sure it was Wales being shit or was it England stopping them playing?
Anyway I think we'd whip the pants off you!

Billyfish wrote:
I don't think there has ever been a year where more than three teams have been in with a shout. Two or three has been the norm of late.

Whether three or four teams have been in with a shout of there's a runaway winner it's just not top tier rugby, and I was thinking more about the quality of games than whether who was winning them was leading to a close fight in the table.

oldbackrow wrote:

Billyfish wrote: ?? The post I was addressing was exaggerating the difference between the teams. Nothing wrong with the assumption that if we were to play closer to potential we'd win? After all, we shit for 80% of the game and yet only lost by a small margin.

Billy, are you sure it was Wales being shit or was it England stopping them playing?
Anyway I think we'd whip the pants off you!

Er yah. Very sure ta.

And I think I'd rather we just played rugby.

Digby wrote:

Billyfish wrote:
I don't think there has ever been a year where more than three teams have been in with a shout. Two or three has been the norm of late.

Whether three or four teams have been in with a shout of there's a runaway winner it's just not top tier rugby, and I was thinking more about the quality of games than whether who was winning them was leading to a close fight in the table.

That is a different matter. Though I'm sure you are right.

If you want an example of how difficult we find praising England, look at how guarded and qualified (some might even say grudging) my post was, and then see me critcized for going "OTT"

No, England are not world-beaters yet, hence my use of words like "chance" and "might". We're scared this might be the start of something, and it's silly to deny that. Let's hope it's just a blip, eh?

Sourdust wrote:If you want an example of how difficult we find praising England, look at how guarded and qualified (some might even say grudging) my post was, and then see me critcized for going "OTT"

No, England are not world-beaters yet, hence my use of words like "chance" and "might". We're scared this might be the start of something, and it's silly to deny that. Let's hope it's just a blip, eh?

Um, no not really. I can't see any evidence that this is the start of something. There is no logic to this fear. Same players, better coach. How many of those players would get into the Welsh team?

Billyfish wrote: Um, no not really. I can't see any evidence that this is the start of something. There is no logic to this fear. Same players, better coach. How many of those players would get into the Welsh team?

Only one of the Vunipolas whereas how many of the welsh players could get in the England team! I'll get me coat!

oldbackrow wrote:

Billyfish wrote: Um, no not really. I can't see any evidence that this is the start of something. There is no logic to this fear. Same players, better coach. How many of those players would get into the Welsh team?

Only one of the Vunipolas whereas how many of the welsh players could get in the England team! I'll get me coat!

After the countless false dawns that England have seen in fairly recent years, forgive me for kinda agreeing with Billy.

A GS is very nice, very welcome and a long time coming in some respects but I haven't seen much to make me think England can beat the top three at the moment. That's the real test of the team. We may push them close and be plucky losers but we did that under Lancaster (sometimes).

There has been 6 grand slams since we last managed to win one and much like this one, I'm struggling to remember a huge amount of quality in some of the matches. They've all been deserved, just like this one but hardly stellar stuff.

Don't get me wrong, Jones seems to have lifted the squad and some fresh faces have worked out very well indeed. Jones is also happy to take on the gobby cunt tag whereas Burt seemed to be liked pitied.

I'll reserve judgement until the summer tests down under. Australia are a very good team these days and if we can beat them in their backyard, then that will prove to me that we are on the right track.

WaspInWales wrote:After the countless false dawns that England have seen in fairly recent years, forgive me for kinda agreeing with Billy.

A GS is very nice, very welcome and a long time coming in some respects but I haven't seen much to make me think England can beat the top three at the moment. That's the real test of the team. We may push them close and be plucky losers but we did that under Lancaster (sometimes).

There has been 6 grand slams since we last managed to win one and much like this one, I'm struggling to remember a huge amount of quality in some of the matches. They've all been deserved, just like this one but hardly stellar stuff.

Don't get me wrong, Jones seems to have lifted the squad and some fresh faces have worked out very well indeed. Jones is also happy to take on the gobby cunt tag whereas Burt seemed to be liked pitied.

I'll reserve judgement until the summer tests down under. Australia are a very good team these days and if we can beat them in their backyard, then that will prove to me that we are on the right track.

Every GS is well earned. You can argue about the fixture list being kind or the overal lack of quality but England still needed to beat what was in front of them five times in a row.

It always amazes me how a new coach can suddenly take a team from zero to hero in a very short space of time. Gatland did it for us in 08, after a RWC fiasco. Ireland have done the same and now England. I think you have some good players and some who have potential to be very good, the tests down under will be a good litmus test for how good you actually are. If a RWC were held tomorrow, I don't think you would win unless a hell of a lot went your way,but that is a reflection as much on SH dominance as much as anything. It's good that England suddenly look s bit more positive, unlike some of my countrymen I'm not fearing a return to the 1990s, but I think England will be a major force again in the 6N.

Did you know that there has only ever been one 6N Grand Slam winning team that went on to win a test match on tour in the Southern Hemisphere that same year?

SCW's England beat NZ and Aussie in '03. No other GS winners have managed even one such win.

(See Stat of the Day for details)