Harry Kane

[WaspInWales]

How long until kane leaves for a bigger country then england so he can actually win things?

Good finish tonight, from an excellent cross too. The only real probing cross put in front of their keeper, but excellent finish.

As I've said before, it's way too early to talk of Kane being world class. He was pretty poor tonight until his goal, but he is playing in a poor side. Perhaps it's easier for him to shine in a good side like Spurs as opposed to England, but Portugal aren't that great but Ronaldo still manages to shine. Yes, they won the Euros but they were poor on the whole.

Kane was shit in the Euros too. One of the worst England players throughout the competition, but perhaps much of that was down to what Woy was asking of him.

[WaspInWales]

Turgid. Just turgid from England.

Tbh, I'm not even sure it was a penalty but that said, Kane despatched it perfectly.

England though, were just dire against the team ranked 120th in the world and had no chance of qualifying. We already on the plane so what better chance will we get to take the shackles off and put in a top performance? Ignoring the difference in salaries between our players and our opponents throughout qualifying. Our lads play in a lucrative league, that isn't their fault but we struggled to break down the likes of Malta which is massively worrying. I suppose there was an element of caution at times and the main thing is the result but no team will fear us in the finals based on what we have produced. The top teams will put us away and the lower ranked teams will fancy their chances. That's why tonight was the perfect opportunity to open up, but it never looked like happening.

[WaspInWales]

Spurs currently wiping the floor with Real...they look like they can score more too!

Some great last ditch defence has kept Real out with the few chances they have had. Only one team in it.

[twitchy]

Just scored his 21st goal of the season with a hat trick equalling shearer's record for goals in a year of 36.

[Galfon]

He should top the pile after the Saints visit today.
Mr. Consistency for sure in the Prem.Impressive effort.

[twitchy]

Scores again. (edit - and again) (and again )

Flash in the pan though imo.

[Galfon]

'Flash' Harry has also slipped in 6 Prem. hat-tricks this year and is just 1 short of Terry Shedingham's club record,
but still room for improvement he feels.

[WaspInWales]

He's comfortably the best British striker*, best striker in the premier league too. I haven't looked at any stats from other leagues, but he's probably the most in-form striker at the moment.

Is he world class yet though? Can a player be world class based on domestic league success?**

Most Spurs fans would be adamant that he is, probably a fair few neutrals too, but I think a player needs to produce the goods at international level before they get that honour. More so when representing a nation with the resources that England have.

* - Rooney in third!

** - Excellent CL group stage to be fair.

[Stom]

He's comfortably the best British striker*, best striker in the premier league too. I haven't looked at any stats from other leagues, but he's probably the most in-form striker at the moment.

Is he world class yet though? Can a player be world class based on domestic league success?**

Most Spurs fans would be adamant that he is, probably a fair few neutrals too, but I think a player needs to produce the goods at international level before they get that honour. More so when representing a nation with the resources that England have.

* - Rooney in third!

** - Excellent CL group stage to be fair.

You mean with about a goal every other game? That feels about fair for a world class striker. Ronaldo has 79 in 147 (1 in 1.86), Messi has 61 in 123 (1 in 2.02), and Kane has 12 in 23 (1 in 1.92).

Sure, it's a small sample size, but he's 24, not 30. When Ronaldo was the same age, he had 22 in 68 (3.1), and Messi had 15 in 54 (3.6). Lewandowski, for comparison, now has 51 in 91 (1.78), and 5 years ago (at 24) had 15 in 50 (3.3).

So, yeah. I'd say Kane over the past 3 years has been pretty much the definition of world class.

That's 118 goals in 163 club games since 2014/15, plus 12 in 23 for an at times dysfunctional England. In total 130 in 186, for a strike rate of 1 in every 1.43. That is, again, the definition of world class.

[Stom]

Oh, and just to put it out there. We have a love of belittling our talents in England. You can f right off with that. When an English sportsperson is on top of the world, we should shout about it.

Harry Kane scored more goals in 2017 than any other player in the top leagues. That is impressive. He is one of the best players in the world at this moment in time.

[WaspInWales]

Meh, I think you're being a tad generous there Stom, at the same time as being slightly hysterical.

8 of Kane's 12 England goals come in a piss weak qualification pool. The other 4 in friendlies...although in fairness Germany and France are decent opposition, but they're still friendlies.

There's no doubting his scoring form over the last year, but surely the mark of world class can only be applied when he has performed on the big stage at international level? He flopped at the Euros...most England players did, so lets see what he can do at the world cup.

[twitchy]

The concept of "international level" being the peak of the sport is from rugby not football. I think your whole premise is flawed. You could argue that certain leagues are more difficult to score in than others but the premiership is as tough as any really. At a certain point it becomes to churlish to argue against the stats.


Anyway I don't really care about all this bollocks I just enjoy watching him play.

[twitchy]

Another ridiculous stat I heard on match of the day was that Harry has scored 53 goals since Shane Long last scored. Imagine how he must feel.

[Galfon]

What the same Shane Long that scored twice in the first 11 mins. against the Villa a while back ?
I agree with WiW on the issue of 'World Class'..it gets banded about pretty freely these days pretty much like 'Global' job titles.
He was bobbins in Euros 2016 - scored nowt in a toothless Eng attack that bagged 3 goals v. Wales, Slovakia & Iceland..in the latter he ended up taking wide free-kicks and seemed all over the place in other ways.
He was a great hope going into the finals.
Hopefully Russia will prove him head & shoulders above the other forwards on show & at least get Eng. out the group stage.

[Galfon]

Congratulations to HK - a chance to make a real statement as new skipperooney..
bbc sportivo:
'It's not an excuse that we're young' -
New England captain Harry Kane says the team can win the World Cup in Russia and "anything else is not good enough".

[Numbers]

Congratulations to HK - a chance to make a real statement as new skipperooney..
bbc sportivo:
'It's not an excuse that we're young' -
New England captain Harry Kane says the team can win the World Cup in Russia and "anything else is not good enough".

I can't wait for the monosyllabic press conferences.

[twitchy]

[Stom]

Puskas - 14
Di Stefano - 18
Eusebio - 22
Batistuta - 20?

[WaspInWales]

He's certainly delivering in the world cup so far!

4 goals in one and a half games, there's no reason why he can't get more in the second half.

Blinding penalties. Haven't seen an English player his a penalty that well in an international for yonks, if at all.

Ok, so weak opposition in the group stages, but Messi hasn't delivered yet. Tougher matches and opposition await, but that world class tag is looking nailed on at the moment!

[twitchy]

That pen was so satisfying. Smashed it.

[WaspInWales]

I realise my waxing lyrical about Kane's world class status may have been a touch hyperbole due to the raised endorphins levels from watching the match...

I think some things need to be taken into context, the opposition and the goals themselves.

Having Tunisia and Panama in the group should result in goals. Kane duly delivered in the form of a couple of tap ins against Tunisia which won the match.

Then today two unstoppable penalties and what can only be described as a lucky goal to complete the hat-trick.

In terms of skill, very little was required in 3 of those goals. Good positioning and a case of being in the right place at the right time did the job.

Those two penalties though, they were insanely good. Won't get tired of watching them.

It'll be interesting to see how he goes against Belgium and in a knock-out situation beyond that. That will be the real acid test for him.

[Stom]

I realise my waxing lyrical about Kane's world class status may have been a touch hyperbole due to the raised endorphins levels from watching the match...

I think some things need to be taken into context, the opposition and the goals themselves.

Having Tunisia and Panama in the group should result in goals. Kane duly delivered in the form of a couple of tap ins against Tunisia which won the match.

Then today two unstoppable penalties and what can only be described as a lucky goal to complete the hat-trick.

In terms of skill, very little was required in 3 of those goals. Good positioning and a case of being in the right place at the right time did the job.

Those two penalties though, they were insanely good. Won't get tired of watching them.

It'll be interesting to see how he goes against Belgium and in a knock-out situation beyond that. That will be the real acid test for him.

If that's not skill, then Thomas Muller and Pippo Inzaghi are/were not talented footballers...

Being in the right place at the right time on a regular basis takes a lot of skill.

[WaspInWales]

I realise my waxing lyrical about Kane's world class status may have been a touch hyperbole due to the raised endorphins levels from watching the match...

I think some things need to be taken into context, the opposition and the goals themselves.

Having Tunisia and Panama in the group should result in goals. Kane duly delivered in the form of a couple of tap ins against Tunisia which won the match.

Then today two unstoppable penalties and what can only be described as a lucky goal to complete the hat-trick.

In terms of skill, very little was required in 3 of those goals. Good positioning and a case of being in the right place at the right time did the job.

Those two penalties though, they were insanely good. Won't get tired of watching them.

It'll be interesting to see how he goes against Belgium and in a knock-out situation beyond that. That will be the real acid test for him.

If that's not skill, then Thomas Muller and Pippo Inzaghi are/were not talented footballers...

Being in the right place at the right time on a regular basis takes a lot of skill.

He's a striker...you would expect him to be close to the goal and tracking the ball in those situations. Kane was left unmarked for his first against Tunisia, Alli was there unmarked too. His second was similar. He didn't have to do much to lose his defenders as they weren't interested in marking him. He just nonchalantly strolled tracking the ball. He didn't have to use any strength or change of pace to lose his defenders, as he didn't have any. Stones was completely unmarked for both his headers yesterday. Good position or poor defending...perhaps a bit of both? Being able to read the game and knowing where to be is certainly a skill, just in the same way half backs make good targets at set pieces. However, it's made a lot easier when the defenders let you do exactly what you want.

Kane has done all that is asked of him in the two matches so far. Can't argue with that, but the standard of opposition has helped him succeed.

Lets see how he fares against Belgium. He may not even play, or feature much depending on how Southgate views potential Rof16 opponents. Then there's the pressure of the knockout environment. You would expect the Belgium defence to keep close to Kane, more so as they have a few Spurs players in their squad.

Will Kane have that free reign against better teams? I highly doubt it. More organised and able defences are going to try to close him down and yes, I'm aware Kane has been able to score goals against better defences than Tunisia and Panama, but not on this stage as yet.

Here's hoping he does though

[Stom]

I realise my waxing lyrical about Kane's world class status may have been a touch hyperbole due to the raised endorphins levels from watching the match...

I think some things need to be taken into context, the opposition and the goals themselves.

Having Tunisia and Panama in the group should result in goals. Kane duly delivered in the form of a couple of tap ins against Tunisia which won the match.

Then today two unstoppable penalties and what can only be described as a lucky goal to complete the hat-trick.

In terms of skill, very little was required in 3 of those goals. Good positioning and a case of being in the right place at the right time did the job.

Those two penalties though, they were insanely good. Won't get tired of watching them.

It'll be interesting to see how he goes against Belgium and in a knock-out situation beyond that. That will be the real acid test for him.

If that's not skill, then Thomas Muller and Pippo Inzaghi are/were not talented footballers...

Being in the right place at the right time on a regular basis takes a lot of skill.

He's a striker...you would expect him to be close to the goal and tracking the ball in those situations. Kane was left unmarked for his first against Tunisia, Alli was there unmarked too. His second was similar. He didn't have to do much to lose his defenders as they weren't interested in marking him. He just nonchalantly strolled tracking the ball. He didn't have to use any strength or change of pace to lose his defenders, as he didn't have any. Stones was completely unmarked for both his headers yesterday. Good position or poor defending...perhaps a bit of both? Being able to read the game and knowing where to be is certainly a skill, just in the same way half backs make good targets at set pieces. However, it's made a lot easier when the defenders let you do exactly what you want.

Kane has done all that is asked of him in the two matches so far. Can't argue with that, but the standard of opposition has helped him succeed.

Lets see how he fares against Belgium. He may not even play, or feature much depending on how Southgate views potential Rof16 opponents. Then there's the pressure of the knockout environment. You would expect the Belgium defence to keep close to Kane, more so as they have a few Spurs players in their squad.

Will Kane have that free reign against better teams? I highly doubt it. More organised and able defences are going to try to close him down and yes, I'm aware Kane has been able to score goals against better defences than Tunisia and Panama, but not on this stage as yet.

Here's hoping he does though

Sure, but that's not quite the same

He'll find a lot more space in open play against better teams. When they don't sit in a compact 6-3-1 formation, our players should find a lot more pockets of space to exploit. And as we're playing a Roberto Martinez team, we will find space. Plus we'll definitely score another set piece goal against them, Martinez is probably the worst coach of defensive set pieces I've ever seen at the top end of the game.

I think Belgium were absolutely stark raving bonkers to appoint him. Next time round they'll be shorn half their defense. But at least the forwards will all be in their prime (just).

[WaspInWales]

So, Harry Kane...

World class?

Captain material?

Discuss.

I wasn't sold on both points before the WC, and tbh, I'm still undecided on both points.

Unless something very unlikely happens, Kane has most likely bagged the golden boot. No mean feat, but only a penalty in the knockout stages against Colombia, and a host of goals against piss weak opposition in the group stage is not the stuff of legend. But, again, unless Lukaku, Griezmann or Mbappe pull something special out of the bag, Kane has done something few other players have achieved, so perhaps the quality of opposition doesn't matter, as some of the previous greats benefited from scoring against weaker opposition too.

Here we have a player with a phenomenal scoring rate at domestic level, and has banged a few in at the highest club level at the CL plus bagged a golden boot...world class is looking a worthy title as things stand.

As for captain material. We saw an England team proving all the doubters wrong and playing some decent football at times. They showed outstanding team spirit and togetherness on the pitch. Surely the captain takes some credit for that? It's just that I didn't see much motivation from Kane during matches. Granted, much of my viewing was from beer goggles so I may have missed him having words with team mates and lifting the team/players when needed. I saw Southgate give plenty of emotion from the sidelines and in huddles.

Maybe I'm just old school in the sense that the captain needs to be pretty much undroppable and if something isn't working up front, then something needs to be changed. Kane was quiet tonight, quiet against Sweden, but still played out both matches. Replaced against Panama with job done and hat-trick in the bag. Perhaps the thought of penalties played on Southgate's mind tonight? Who, other than Kane would you want on the pitch to take a penalty if need be? Kane has smashed them in!

I'm probably overthinking things here. He's scored some goals and England played well.

Nuff said?