RugbyRebels

WaspInWales wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:The police are the same as any other large institution. Mostly, there's plenty of hard working and honest coppers. But there are some awful ones who deserve to be rooted out and sacked, or criminally charged where appropriate. The problem is often that any bad apple tarnishes the whole organisation, which is exacerbated by senior management not wanting to admit to a problem because they know the perception that it will cause.

I used to have that sympathetic view towards the police, but I think a drop in their recruitment standards have allowed a large number of unsavoury people into positions that they are clearly unsuitable for. I think many police forces have issues with toxic masculinity, racism, extremism as well as a lack of professionalism and empathy towards victims of crime.

However, like many public services, they have been completely fucked over by this government, but I bet most of the thin blue line would vote Tory if an election was called tomorrow.

That’s part of the problem and the remit of the police seems to grow into areas of social care where it’s not their business. But they don’t help themselves either in some of their operational planning.

But clearly black children and men do less well than other ethnic groups in the UK. They do less well at school, on the workplace and they are more likely to have a run in with the police. The data provided by multiple sources shows that the police do arrest more black men and use force more often. But that’s not the case with other ethnic minorities. Asian men are more or less the same proportion as white men. Surely if the police were racist, there would be disparity there too.

And if schooling and the workplace is also not favouring black boys and men, then should we be declaring teachers as racist, all employers as racist and the nhs as racist as well apparently. The police are generally reactive to social problems and many social studies highlight the link between poverty and crime. If black people are more likely to be poor, and they are, then they are more likely to live on high crime areas.

So describing the pigs as racist is just lazy and misses the bugger picture. The police are just a convenient punchbag for certain groups who can’t be bothered to look at the problem closely enough.

Certain groups are just a convenient punchbag for the police.



Fixumundo

Sandydragon wrote:

WaspInWales wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:The police are the same as any other large institution. Mostly, there's plenty of hard working and honest coppers. But there are some awful ones who deserve to be rooted out and sacked, or criminally charged where appropriate. The problem is often that any bad apple tarnishes the whole organisation, which is exacerbated by senior management not wanting to admit to a problem because they know the perception that it will cause.

I used to have that sympathetic view towards the police, but I think a drop in their recruitment standards have allowed a large number of unsavoury people into positions that they are clearly unsuitable for. I think many police forces have issues with toxic masculinity, racism, extremism as well as a lack of professionalism and empathy towards victims of crime.

However, like many public services, they have been completely fucked over by this government, but I bet most of the thin blue line would vote Tory if an election was called tomorrow.

That’s part of the problem and the remit of the police seems to grow into areas of social care where it’s not their business. But they don’t help themselves either in some of their operational planning.

But clearly black children and men do less well than other ethnic groups in the UK. They do less well at school, on the workplace and they are more likely to have a run in with the police. The data provided by multiple sources shows that the police do arrest more black men and use force more often. But that’s not the case with other ethnic minorities. Asian men are more or less the same proportion as white men. Surely if the police were racist, there would be disparity there too.

And if schooling and the workplace is also not favouring black boys and men, then should we be declaring teachers as racist, all employers as racist and the nhs as racist as well apparently. The police are generally reactive to social problems and many social studies highlight the link between poverty and crime. If black people are more likely to be poor, and they are, then they are more likely to live on high crime areas.

So describing the pigs as racist is just lazy and misses the bugger picture. The police are just a convenient punchbag for certain groups who can’t be bothered to look at the problem closely enough.

Well said

Sent from my CPH2195 using Tapatalk

The cops are the victims here? Really??

Wow, been reading The Bell Curve, recently?

Sandydragon wrote:

WaspInWales wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:The police are the same as any other large institution. Mostly, there's plenty of hard working and honest coppers. But there are some awful ones who deserve to be rooted out and sacked, or criminally charged where appropriate. The problem is often that any bad apple tarnishes the whole organisation, which is exacerbated by senior management not wanting to admit to a problem because they know the perception that it will cause.

I used to have that sympathetic view towards the police, but I think a drop in their recruitment standards have allowed a large number of unsavoury people into positions that they are clearly unsuitable for. I think many police forces have issues with toxic masculinity, racism, extremism as well as a lack of professionalism and empathy towards victims of crime.

However, like many public services, they have been completely fucked over by this government, but I bet most of the thin blue line would vote Tory if an election was called tomorrow.

That’s part of the problem and the remit of the police seems to grow into areas of social care where it’s not their business. But they don’t help themselves either in some of their operational planning.

But clearly black children and men do less well than other ethnic groups in the UK. They do less well at school, on the workplace and they are more likely to have a run in with the police. The data provided by multiple sources shows that the police do arrest more black men and use force more often. But that’s not the case with other ethnic minorities. Asian men are more or less the same proportion as white men. Surely if the police were racist, there would be disparity there too.

And if schooling and the workplace is also not favouring black boys and men, then should we be declaring teachers as racist, all employers as racist and the nhs as racist as well apparently. The police are generally reactive to social problems and many social studies highlight the link between poverty and crime. If black people are more likely to be poor, and they are, then they are more likely to live on high crime areas.

So describing the pigs as racist is just lazy and misses the bugger picture. The police are just a convenient punchbag for certain groups who can’t be bothered to look at the problem closely enough.

"The pigs are racist" is indeed a lazy statement.

But "the police force is institutionally racist" is the truth.

It's not alone of course. Many parts of our society are instituationally racist too (eg our education system (not individual schools) is set up to benefit the wealthy, which means that black people, being generally poorer, will suffer worse outcomes).

But that doesn't give the police a free pass, they still need to fix their own problems. If we wait for the whole of society to be fixed before expecting the police to take action, nothing will ever be done.

Sandydragon wrote:That’s part of the problem and the remit of the police seems to grow into areas of social care where it’s not their business. But they don’t help themselves either in some of their operational planning.

But clearly black children and men do less well than other ethnic groups in the UK. They do less well at school, on the workplace and they are more likely to have a run in with the police. The data provided by multiple sources shows that the police do arrest more black men and use force more often. But that’s not the case with other ethnic minorities. Asian men are more or less the same proportion as white men. Surely if the police were racist, there would be disparity there too.

And if schooling and the workplace is also not favouring black boys and men, then should we be declaring teachers as racist, all employers as racist and the nhs as racist as well apparently. The police are generally reactive to social problems and many social studies highlight the link between poverty and crime. If black people are more likely to be poor, and they are, then they are more likely to live on high crime areas.

So describing the pigs as racist is just lazy and misses the bugger picture. The police are just a convenient punchbag for certain groups who can’t be bothered to look at the problem closely enough.

First off, I wasn't referring to arrest rates, or likelihood of being arrested due to the colour of one's skin. That's a whole other debate involving socio-economic factors, as well as racism.

Neither did I use the word pigs.

My comment was about how a lowering of recruitment standards, as well as vetting have allowed vile people into the positions.

As for the police being punchbags, they should be getting held to account for their failings. I absolutely understand that some of their failings are due to reasons out of their control, but many of their failings are down to the personnel they employ. Obviously, not all police officers are rapists, murderers, right-wing extremists, sexual predators, misogynists, lairs, bullies etc, etc but there is so much evidence to suggest that quite a few are and it is systemic.

They have absolutely failed to protect vulnerable people and victims of domestic abuse...even when the victims have contacted them several times.

The Met's decision not to investigate the many government breaches of lockdown restrictions is just more proof that they are not serving, or protecting us.

I've had several dealings with the police in recent years. I used to ride hundreds of kilometres every week on the road until injury recently finished that for me. As I got so fed up with coming close to being killed on every ride by wankers driving like cunts, I got a camera to record the incidents in order to submit to a dedicated police team created to protect vulnerable road users. They have not prosecuted a single driver from over 100 videos I submitted to them and the same applies for anyone else I know who has submitted footage. It's not for a lack of evidence. The videos clearly show inconsiderate driving and in some cases recklessly dangerous. I also recorded many close passes over solid white lines with vehicles approaching in the other lane, but the only response from the police was a letter to the registered owners or no further action. In fact, they threatened to prosecute me for swearing at the drivers after a close pass. I shit you not. I have come literally inches away from being wiped out by dickheads passing me at speeds over 50 kmh and yet me calling that driver a cunt in response is their issue!?! They repeatedly excused poor driving even with the evidence that I had been passed well within the 1.5 m passing distance they advise.

They also said the cps would not prosecute as my reputation would be called into question for saying the c word. After complaining, a female inspector from Gwent police advised that a female magistrate would be offended in they heard that in court. Again, I shit you not.

I've taken it further with my MP who has been superb tbf...but she's not a Tory cunt which helps.

I've no doubt me complaining to the unit directly, as well as to Gwent police affected the 'service' I received, but the same is happening all over the country to vulnerable road users....and this is just one issue. They are failing victims of crime everywhere.

UK police forces are simply not fit for purpose. Again, that doesn't mean all cops and it doesn't mean all causes are internal.

EDIT: Actually, one single prosecution was the result of all those videos. However, a key point is that it wasn't submitted to Operation Snap (the dedicated police unit). As the incident occurred in Surrey and Surrey police don't use Operation Snap, I uploaded it directly to them and they decided to issue an notice of intended prosecution.

Also, I took it upon myself to contact the cps in order to clarify whether me swearing in response to close passes would be a barrier to prosecution and they advised that it wouldn't. They're just interested whether something is likely to result in a successful case and if it's in the public interest. Road safety is definitely in the public interest and video evidence is extremely helpful in getting convictions.

So, it turns out the police are just neglecting their duties to the vulnerable whilst not bothering with the blatant corruption and law breaking by the government.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:"The pigs are racist" is indeed a lazy statement.

But "the police force is institutionally racist" is the truth.

It's not alone of course. Many parts of our society are instituationally racist too (eg our education system (not individual schools) is set up to benefit the wealthy, which means that black people, being generally poorer, will suffer worse outcomes).

But that doesn't give the police a free pass, they still need to fix their own problems. If we wait for the whole of society to be fixed before expecting the police to take action, nothing will ever be done.

Yep.

How is a society fixed though?

I've honestly never seen so many examples if shithousery from people. Not many people seem to give a fuck about anyone else these days...although many that claim to do so,stop giving a fuck the moment they finish virtue signalling on social media.

Starting by addressing institutionalised racial inequality and inequity would help.

cashead wrote:Starting by addressing institutionalised racial inequality and inequity would help.

Good luck with that as I can't see either issue being improved anytime soon. It's clear the powers that be have finally had enough of Boris. Not that he gives a shit. Anyone replacing him from the Tory party will be as complicit as he is on various issues. Looking slightly further ahead and if Labour manage to win the next general election, I still can't imagine any real changes under Starmer as he will be as effective as a dish cloth running the country. I also think he does not have the balls to stand up to the establishment, the banks and the wealthy. No doubt, new laws will be passed to 'address' racism and inequality, but real change requires some people to give up their privilege. Whether that privilege is in the form of massive wealth and positions of power being passed down families, or the privilege that makes many other people think they deserve a better life than another human with different colour skin.

WaspInWales wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:"The pigs are racist" is indeed a lazy statement.

But "the police force is institutionally racist" is the truth.

It's not alone of course. Many parts of our society are instituationally racist too (eg our education system (not individual schools) is set up to benefit the wealthy, which means that black people, being generally poorer, will suffer worse outcomes).

But that doesn't give the police a free pass, they still need to fix their own problems. If we wait for the whole of society to be fixed before expecting the police to take action, nothing will ever be done.

Yep.

How is a society fixed though?

I've honestly never seen so many examples if shithousery from people. Not many people seem to give a fuck about anyone else these days...although many that claim to do so,stop giving a fuck the moment they finish virtue signalling on social media.

There's a real shortage of empathy out there. Most people aren't actually psychopaths or narcissists, but what empathy they have doesn't seem to extend very far beyond their family and close friends these days. And our leaders and media (both well stocked with real psychopaths and narcissists) set a bad example, encouraging and enabling an unempathic/selfish position, giving everyone nice little excuses not to sympathise with, say, drowning immigrants, or people whose accents aren't quite right.

We don't need real evil. The selfishness caused by lack of empathy makes most of the bad shit in this world.

We should be thankful not to be in the USA, where selfishness is pretty much a virtue. We should be thankful that at least at one time in this country's history there was enough empathy to create the welfare state and the NHS. It wouldn't happen now, and I don't think either will survive another decade of the Tories.

How to fix it? Other than at the general election, I think all we can do is try to make up for the arseholes by giving, by contributing more than our fair share. Try to set an example. (Yeah, and calling them arseholes probably isn't a good idea. Some of them might see the light, extend their circle of "us" and decease "them" a little.)

In a civilised society, racist fash scum should be running scared. We also have almost a century of data that shows cunts like that are best discouraged from their beliefs by force.

Frankly, Sherman had the right idea when he rocked up to Atlanta, Georgia.


And, pro-tip: when confronted by raw data that shows significant inequity, if your immediate response is "nuh-uh, not even!" then you're part of the problem. Stop being part of the problem.

cashead wrote:In a civilised society, racist fash scum should be running scared. We also have almost a century of data that shows cunts like that are best discouraged from their beliefs by force.

Frankly, Sherman had the right idea when he rocked up to Atlanta, Georgia.


And, pro-tip: when confronted by raw data that shows significant inequity, if your immediate response is "nuh-uh, not even!" then you're part of the problem. Stop being part of the problem.

He did the same slash and burn on the great plains during the Indian War, unfortunately, but I get the point.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

WaspInWales wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:"The pigs are racist" is indeed a lazy statement.

But "the police force is institutionally racist" is the truth.

It's not alone of course. Many parts of our society are instituationally racist too (eg our education system (not individual schools) is set up to benefit the wealthy, which means that black people, being generally poorer, will suffer worse outcomes).

But that doesn't give the police a free pass, they still need to fix their own problems. If we wait for the whole of society to be fixed before expecting the police to take action, nothing will ever be done.

Yep.

How is a society fixed though?

I've honestly never seen so many examples if shithousery from people. Not many people seem to give a fuck about anyone else these days...although many that claim to do so,stop giving a fuck the moment they finish virtue signalling on social media.

There's a real shortage of empathy out there. Most people aren't actually psychopaths or narcissists, but what empathy they have doesn't seem to extend very far beyond their family and close friends these days. And our leaders and media (both well stocked with real psychopaths and narcissists) set a bad example, encouraging and enabling an unempathic/selfish position, giving everyone nice little excuses not to sympathise with, say, drowning immigrants, or people whose accents aren't quite right.

We don't need real evil. The selfishness caused by lack of empathy makes most of the bad shit in this world.

We should be thankful not to be in the USA, where selfishness is pretty much a virtue. We should be thankful that at least at one time in this country's history there was enough empathy to create the welfare state and the NHS. It wouldn't happen now, and I don't think either will survive another decade of the Tories.

How to fix it? Other than at the general election, I think all we can do is try to make up for the arseholes by giving, by contributing more than our fair share. Try to set an example. (Yeah, and calling them arseholes probably isn't a good idea. Some of them might see the light, extend their circle of "us" and decease "them" a little.)

'Understand more, condemn less' is a pretty good motto, if anyone wants to take it on.

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WaspInWales wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:That’s part of the problem and the remit of the police seems to grow into areas of social care where it’s not their business. But they don’t help themselves either in some of their operational planning.

But clearly black children and men do less well than other ethnic groups in the UK. They do less well at school, on the workplace and they are more likely to have a run in with the police. The data provided by multiple sources shows that the police do arrest more black men and use force more often. But that’s not the case with other ethnic minorities. Asian men are more or less the same proportion as white men. Surely if the police were racist, there would be disparity there too.

And if schooling and the workplace is also not favouring black boys and men, then should we be declaring teachers as racist, all employers as racist and the nhs as racist as well apparently. The police are generally reactive to social problems and many social studies highlight the link between poverty and crime. If black people are more likely to be poor, and they are, then they are more likely to live on high crime areas.

So describing the pigs as racist is just lazy and misses the bugger picture. The police are just a convenient punchbag for certain groups who can’t be bothered to look at the problem closely enough.

First off, I wasn't referring to arrest rates, or likelihood of being arrested due to the colour of one's skin. That's a whole other debate involving socio-economic factors, as well as racism.

Neither did I use the word pigs.

My comment was about how a lowering of recruitment standards, as well as vetting have allowed vile people into the positions.

As for the police being punchbags, they should be getting held to account for their failings. I absolutely understand that some of their failings are due to reasons out of their control, but many of their failings are down to the personnel they employ. Obviously, not all police officers are rapists, murderers, right-wing extremists, sexual predators, misogynists, lairs, bullies etc, etc but there is so much evidence to suggest that quite a few are and it is systemic.

They have absolutely failed to protect vulnerable people and victims of domestic abuse...even when the victims have contacted them several times.

The Met's decision not to investigate the many government breaches of lockdown restrictions is just more proof that they are not serving, or protecting us.

I've had several dealings with the police in recent years. I used to ride hundreds of kilometres every week on the road until injury recently finished that for me. As I got so fed up with coming close to being killed on every ride by wankers driving like cunts, I got a camera to record the incidents in order to submit to a dedicated police team created to protect vulnerable road users. They have not prosecuted a single driver from over 100 videos I submitted to them and the same applies for anyone else I know who has submitted footage. It's not for a lack of evidence. The videos clearly show inconsiderate driving and in some cases recklessly dangerous. I also recorded many close passes over solid white lines with vehicles approaching in the other lane, but the only response from the police was a letter to the registered owners or no further action. In fact, they threatened to prosecute me for swearing at the drivers after a close pass. I shit you not. I have come literally inches away from being wiped out by dickheads passing me at speeds over 50 kmh and yet me calling that driver a cunt in response is their issue!?! They repeatedly excused poor driving even with the evidence that I had been passed well within the 1.5 m passing distance they advise.

They also said the cps would not prosecute as my reputation would be called into question for saying the c word. After complaining, a female inspector from Gwent police advised that a female magistrate would be offended in they heard that in court. Again, I shit you not.

I've taken it further with my MP who has been superb tbf...but she's not a Tory cunt which helps.

I've no doubt me complaining to the unit directly, as well as to Gwent police affected the 'service' I received, but the same is happening all over the country to vulnerable road users....and this is just one issue. They are failing victims of crime everywhere.

UK police forces are simply not fit for purpose. Again, that doesn't mean all cops and it doesn't mean all causes are internal.

EDIT: Actually, one single prosecution was the result of all those videos. However, a key point is that it wasn't submitted to Operation Snap (the dedicated police unit). As the incident occurred in Surrey and Surrey police don't use Operation Snap, I uploaded it directly to them and they decided to issue an notice of intended prosecution.

Also, I took it upon myself to contact the cps in order to clarify whether me swearing in response to close passes would be a barrier to prosecution and they advised that it wouldn't. They're just interested whether something is likely to result in a successful case and if it's in the public interest. Road safety is definitely in the public interest and video evidence is extremely helpful in getting convictions.

So, it turns out the police are just neglecting their duties to the vulnerable whilst not bothering with the blatant corruption and law breaking by the government.

The issues with vetting are well known and I fully agree it should be that bad. Vetting for all government roles is badly stretched due to NSV being continually underfunded.

Most police officers don’t want to investigate lockdown breaches as they genuinely have better things to do. Each report should be reviewed on merit, not because of it being politically convenient for some to want it.

Domestic violence is a tricky area. Most police men and women can tell you of domestic violence cases where allegations are withdrawn and it goes nowhere. It can also come down to one persons word against another. A bit like many rape cases where there aren’t obvious physical evidence of violence. Yes, some officers don’t give a shit, but most work hard in this frustrating area, particularly when information just isn’t shared between various agencies.



I’m surprised you mentioned operation snap. Most forces have used video evidence for a good number of road traffic prosecutions that wouldn’t not otherwise have been brought. I can’t comment on your case but the vast majority of forces do accept video footage and will use it provide fit meets the evidential standard.

Are the 43 regional police forces fit for purpose? Maybe, maybe not. But there’s clearly a balance between large organisations with specialist capabilities and a local presence/ understanding.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

WaspInWales wrote: I used to have that sympathetic view towards the police, but I think a drop in their recruitment standards have allowed a large number of unsavoury people into positions that they are clearly unsuitable for. I think many police forces have issues with toxic masculinity, racism, extremism as well as a lack of professionalism and empathy towards victims of crime.

However, like many public services, they have been completely fucked over by this government, but I bet most of the thin blue line would vote Tory if an election was called tomorrow.

That’s part of the problem and the remit of the police seems to grow into areas of social care where it’s not their business. But they don’t help themselves either in some of their operational planning.

But clearly black children and men do less well than other ethnic groups in the UK. They do less well at school, on the workplace and they are more likely to have a run in with the police. The data provided by multiple sources shows that the police do arrest more black men and use force more often. But that’s not the case with other ethnic minorities. Asian men are more or less the same proportion as white men. Surely if the police were racist, there would be disparity there too.

And if schooling and the workplace is also not favouring black boys and men, then should we be declaring teachers as racist, all employers as racist and the nhs as racist as well apparently. The police are generally reactive to social problems and many social studies highlight the link between poverty and crime. If black people are more likely to be poor, and they are, then they are more likely to live on high crime areas.

So describing the pigs as racist is just lazy and misses the bugger picture. The police are just a convenient punchbag for certain groups who can’t be bothered to look at the problem closely enough.

"The pigs are racist" is indeed a lazy statement.

But "the police force is institutionally racist" is the truth.

It's not alone of course. Many parts of our society are instituationally racist too (eg our education system (not individual schools) is set up to benefit the wealthy, which means that black people, being generally poorer, will suffer worse outcomes).

But that doesn't give the police a free pass, they still need to fix their own problems. If we wait for the whole of society to be fixed before expecting the police to take action, nothing will ever be done.

The police have been fixing their problems for two decades. There shave been literally hundreds of initiatives to ensure officers are better trained. Perhaps if we addressed the wider societal problems (and not by accepting that black men are disadvantaged purely through racism, or that racism doesn’t play some part) then the police wouldn’t have so many confrontational incidents with the black community. The stats show that the problem is with a particular ethnic group and also that ethnic group has the perception that the police are anti them. Every time another black youth is arrested that’s reinforced, although does that mean the police just ignore crimes?
Perhaps time for a joined up departmental review on how to treat thisnpriblem, including community leadership but also at a local level. But that takes more effort than just calling the police racist.

Unfuckingbelievable.

Are you doing a bit?

"Please don't highlight issues with systemic and structural racism within the police as an institution, lest we hurt the pigs' feelings." Jesus fucking christ. How tone deaf can you get?

Sandydragon wrote:Every time another black youth is arrested that’s reinforced, although does that mean the police just ignore crimes?

Also, how very nice of you to imply that they deserve it.

"But what if police brutality is good and blacks deserve systemic and structural racism and inequality?"

cashead wrote:Are you doing a bit?

"Please don't highlight issues with systemic and structural racism within the police as an institution, lest we hurt the pigs' feelings." Jesus fucking christ. How tone deaf can you get?

Sandydragon wrote:Every time another black youth is arrested that’s reinforced, although does that mean the police just ignore crimes?

Also, how very nice of you to imply that they deserve it.

"But what if police brutality is good and blacks deserve systemic and structural racism and inequality?"

I was wondering if it was worth responding to you since you are determined to misconstrue anything written that doesn’t fit your own narrative. Fair play, you have once again missed the mark by a country mile.

morepork wrote:Unfuckingbelievable.

Oh, so you prefer to consider crime in isolation. How very Daily Mail.

Sandydragon wrote:

cashead wrote:Are you doing a bit?

"Please don't highlight issues with systemic and structural racism within the police as an institution, lest we hurt the pigs' feelings." Jesus fucking christ. How tone deaf can you get?

Sandydragon wrote:Every time another black youth is arrested that’s reinforced, although does that mean the police just ignore crimes?

Also, how very nice of you to imply that they deserve it.

"But what if police brutality is good and blacks deserve systemic and structural racism and inequality?"

I was wondering if it was worth responding to you since you are determined to misconstrue anything written that doesn’t fit your own narrative. Fair play, you have once again missed the mark by a country mile.

Oh, you mean the narrative that involves a Home Affairs Committee investigation that found little to nothing has improved after the McPherson report? Funny how you seem to gloss over that.

"BuT tHeRe ArE lItTerAlLy HuNdReDs Of InItIaTiVeS!"

cashead wrote:And, pro-tip: when confronted by raw data that shows significant inequity, if your immediate response is "nuh-uh, not even!" then you're part of the problem. Stop being part of the problem.

Sandydragon wrote:

morepork wrote:Unfuckingbelievable.

Oh, so you prefer to consider crime in isolation. How very Daily Mail.

Unfuckingbelievable x 2

What does crime in isolation mean? Is it reverse qualified immunity? FFS man...

Sandydragon wrote:Every time another black youth is arrested that’s reinforced, although does that mean the police just ignore crimes?

What are you trying to say here Sandy? I keep rereading it and it doesn't make much sense.

It does come across like you're saying that if the police didn't arrest so many black youths, then they'd be ignoring crimes - i.e. the high number of arrests among blacks is proportionate and justified.

Sandydragon wrote:The data provided by multiple sources shows that the police do arrest more black men and use force more often. But that’s not the case with other ethnic minorities. Asian men are more or less the same proportion as white men. Surely if the police were racist, there would be disparity there too.

I don't know what data you're looking at but I think it must be flawed. Here I found conviction rate by ethnicity:
-white men 85%
-asian men 80%
-black men 79%

Given that you accept the socio-economic status of the black community is not particularly favourable, you'll surely not be arguing that the lower conviction rate is due to amazing lawyers.

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.ser ... ons/latest

Sandydragon wrote:

morepork wrote:Unfuckingbelievable.

Oh, so you prefer to consider crime in isolation. How very Daily Mail.

I think it's more exasperation with your stance. It does not matter whether there is or is not institutionalised racism, if you are unable to entertain the possibility that there might be.

It's one thing to deny you're racist, and it's another thing to apologise if you were racist, that you would like to educate yourself on how you can improve your communication/behaviour/etc.

There is no such thing as a few bad apples if those bad apples are not destroyed instantly upon finding them. The police do not do that, they do not instantly fire the "bad apples" and instigate criminal proceedings against them. In other words, they tolerate those behaviours. Therefore those behaviours become part of the culture of that organisation.

Meaning...that organisation is now racist/corrupt...rotten.

If you do not cut out the cancer, it will spread.

There is no way to defend the actions of the police forces. You can defend the actions of individuals, but the organisations have acted in bad faith pretty much across the globe. Because, for them, their officers are more important than the people they serve. Just like many politicians close rank - they've lost sight of their purpose. If they have done so, the only action is to rip it up and start again.

That's what BLM was saying, but you cannot get past the catchphrases and your own idea of "a few bad apples"...if those bad apples are not instantly removed, they will infect the rest of the organization.

So, yeah, that's MPs response.