Snap General Election called

[Mellsblue]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10449372/ ... -semitism/

I know its The Sun but.... Corbyn claims there is a bias within the BBC that there is a right for Israel to exist and for it to be a democracy in the Middle East.

Well that's not great. Haven't watched the video (as at work), but the picked quotes aren't ideal. Bit hard to tell how bad it is, given there are some impressive reaches by the Sun in the article, including the claim that saying Israel puts pressure on media outlets counts as "peddling an offensive conspiracy theory about Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions, according to the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance's definition of anti-Semitism," while ignoring that the IHRA also have specific issues with conflating the actions of the state of Israel and Jews.

Puja

Yeah. It is the Sun, hence my qualification at the start but just watch the video and make your own mind up.

[Banquo]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10449372/ ... -semitism/

I know its The Sun but.... Corbyn claims there is a bias within the BBC that there is a right for Israel to exist and for it to be a democracy in the Middle East.

Well that's not great. Haven't watched the video (as at work), but the picked quotes aren't ideal. Bit hard to tell how bad it is, given there are some impressive reaches by the Sun in the article, including the claim that saying Israel puts pressure on media outlets counts as "peddling an offensive conspiracy theory about Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions, according to the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance's definition of anti-Semitism," while ignoring that the IHRA also have specific issues with conflating the actions of the state of Israel and Jews.

Puja

Yeah. It is the Sun, hence my qualification at the start but just watch the video and make your own mind up.

Not sure there is much new in that, its an old clip and he had held those beliefs forever.

[Digby]

Everyone is throwing JRM under the bus in urging those potentially affected by the attack at Monument/London Bridge to follow the official advice. We'll have to wait and see what the attack entails, who carried it out, and what impact it might have on the election.

I've no idea how many times I've crossed London Bridge, there's a decent chance I know a number involved in today's incident, essentially there's a reason they call it terrorism

[Banquo]

Everyone is throwing JRM under the bus in urging those potentially affected by the attack at Monument/London Bridge to follow the official advice. We'll have to wait and see what the attack entails, who carried it out, and what impact it might have on the election.

I've no idea how many times I've crossed London Bridge, there's a decent chance I know a number involved in today's incident, essentially there's a reason they call it terrorism

Good work by the general public and the police. My kids weren't around there thank the lord.

As you say, sometimes these things play out oddly.

[Son of Mathonwy]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10449372/ ... -semitism/

I know its The Sun but.... Corbyn claims there is a bias within the BBC that there is a right for Israel to exist and for it to be a democracy in the Middle East.

Well that's not great. Haven't watched the video (as at work), but the picked quotes aren't ideal. Bit hard to tell how bad it is, given there are some impressive reaches by the Sun in the article, including the claim that saying Israel puts pressure on media outlets counts as "peddling an offensive conspiracy theory about Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions, according to the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance's definition of anti-Semitism," while ignoring that the IHRA also have specific issues with conflating the actions of the state of Israel and Jews.

Puja

Agreed.

The last example following the IHRA's (admittedly poor and misleading) definition of anti-Semitism is "Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel."

Since Corbyn does not at any point mention Jews - he only speaks of Israel - then it's the Sun that is suggesting that Jews are collectively responsible for the actions of Israel. So according to the definition, the Sun is possibly* being anti-semitic.

*I say possibly because the definition is so vague and qualified with mays and coulds that pretty much any perception of Jews could qualify - or not - depending how one is feeling on a given day.

[Mellsblue]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10449372/ ... -semitism/

I know its The Sun but.... Corbyn claims there is a bias within the BBC that there is a right for Israel to exist and for it to be a democracy in the Middle East.

Well that's not great. Haven't watched the video (as at work), but the picked quotes aren't ideal. Bit hard to tell how bad it is, given there are some impressive reaches by the Sun in the article, including the claim that saying Israel puts pressure on media outlets counts as "peddling an offensive conspiracy theory about Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions, according to the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance's definition of anti-Semitism," while ignoring that the IHRA also have specific issues with conflating the actions of the state of Israel and Jews.

Puja

Agreed.

The last example following the IHRA's (admittedly poor and misleading) definition of anti-Semitism is "Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel."

Since Corbyn does not at any point mention Jews - he only speaks of Israel - then it's the Sun that is suggesting that Jews are collectively responsible for the actions of Israel. So according to the definition, the Sun is possibly* being anti-semitic.

*I say possibly because the definition is so vague and qualified with mays and coulds that pretty much any perception of Jews could qualify - or not - depending how one is feeling on a given day.

Any issues with what Corbyn said?

[Son of Mathonwy]

Well that's not great. Haven't watched the video (as at work), but the picked quotes aren't ideal. Bit hard to tell how bad it is, given there are some impressive reaches by the Sun in the article, including the claim that saying Israel puts pressure on media outlets counts as "peddling an offensive conspiracy theory about Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions, according to the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance's definition of anti-Semitism," while ignoring that the IHRA also have specific issues with conflating the actions of the state of Israel and Jews.

Puja

Agreed.

The last example following the IHRA's (admittedly poor and misleading) definition of anti-Semitism is "Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel."

Since Corbyn does not at any point mention Jews - he only speaks of Israel - then it's the Sun that is suggesting that Jews are collectively responsible for the actions of Israel. So according to the definition, the Sun is possibly* being anti-semitic.

*I say possibly because the definition is so vague and qualified with mays and coulds that pretty much any perception of Jews could qualify - or not - depending how one is feeling on a given day.

Any issues with what Corbyn said?

No. Given that Israel has been illegally occupying - and mistreating the inhabitants of - land taken from neighbouring states for over half a century, I think the BBC is showing bias by failing to question this situation. Whether this is due to influence from Israel itself, I have no idea, but it's plausible.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Any other conspiracy theories you want to get out of the way whilst you’re at it?

Hate to say it, but the only appropriate response is... I told you so

Ha! You’ve got me bang to rights, guv.

It’s f**king pathetic.

I’m only too happy to criticise my own party and it’s leader when required, as you’ll see from my posts today. Alternatively, I could’ve questioned the use of ‘source’ and/or questioned whether Buzzfeed was/is bias or has an agenda, as happens when Corbyn is present but not involved.

No worries.

I'd like to think it was me being cynical or paranoid, but the conservatives really are like this.

[Mellsblue]

Agreed.

The last example following the IHRA's (admittedly poor and misleading) definition of anti-Semitism is "Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel."

Since Corbyn does not at any point mention Jews - he only speaks of Israel - then it's the Sun that is suggesting that Jews are collectively responsible for the actions of Israel. So according to the definition, the Sun is possibly* being anti-semitic.

*I say possibly because the definition is so vague and qualified with mays and coulds that pretty much any perception of Jews could qualify - or not - depending how one is feeling on a given day.

Any issues with what Corbyn said?

No. Given that Israel has been illegally occupying - and mistreating the inhabitants of - land taken from neighbouring states for over half a century, I think the BBC is showing bias by failing to question this situation. Whether this is due to influence from Israel itself, I have no idea, but it's plausible.

Good to know where we stand.

[Mellsblue]

Hate to say it, but the only appropriate response is... I told you so

Ha! You’ve got me bang to rights, guv.

It’s f**king pathetic.

I’m only too happy to criticise my own party and it’s leader when required, as you’ll see from my posts today. Alternatively, I could’ve questioned the use of ‘source’ and/or questioned whether Buzzfeed was/is bias or has an agenda, as happens when Corbyn is present but not involved.

No worries.

I'd like to think it was me being cynical or paranoid, but the conservatives really are like this.

One unnamed prick has piped up and we know the conservatives really are like this. So, I assume given numerous anti-semites we know Labour really are anti-Semitic?

[Son of Mathonwy]

Ha! You’ve got me bang to rights, guv.

It’s f**king pathetic.

I’m only too happy to criticise my own party and it’s leader when required, as you’ll see from my posts today. Alternatively, I could’ve questioned the use of ‘source’ and/or questioned whether Buzzfeed was/is bias or has an agenda, as happens when Corbyn is present but not involved.

No worries.

I'd like to think it was me being cynical or paranoid, but the conservatives really are like this.

One unnamed prick has piped up and we know the conservatives really are like this. So, I assume given numerous anti-semites we know Labour really are anti-Semitic?

One unnamed prick? I thought when you said "bang to rights" that you accepted that this was true or pretty likely to be true, ie “If we are re-elected we will have to review Channel 4’s Public Services Broadcasting obligations." That's the conservative party, not some individual member of it.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Any issues with what Corbyn said?

No. Given that Israel has been illegally occupying - and mistreating the inhabitants of - land taken from neighbouring states for over half a century, I think the BBC is showing bias by failing to question this situation. Whether this is due to influence from Israel itself, I have no idea, but it's plausible.

Good to know where we stand.

Where do you stand?

[Mellsblue]

No worries.

I'd like to think it was me being cynical or paranoid, but the conservatives really are like this.

One unnamed prick has piped up and we know the conservatives really are like this. So, I assume given numerous anti-semites we know Labour really are anti-Semitic?

One unnamed prick? I thought when you said "bang to rights" that you accepted that this was true or pretty likely to be true, ie “If we are re-elected we will have to review Channel 4’s Public Services Broadcasting obligations." That's the conservative party, not some individual member of it.

Yep. I believe that an unnamed prick has said it. How that means the Conservatives as a party are all the same is quite the leap. Just because he said we doesn’t mean the party as a whole is like him. You’ve taken the words of one idiot and bracketed an entire party. From here on in, can I take the words of anyone associated to the Labour Party and then state the party as a whole are the same or believe the same?
Your silence on the anti-semitism stuff says a lot. It’s ok to criticise your own party, they haven’t control of your internet.....yet.

[Mellsblue]

No. Given that Israel has been illegally occupying - and mistreating the inhabitants of - land taken from neighbouring states for over half a century, I think the BBC is showing bias by failing to question this situation. Whether this is due to influence from Israel itself, I have no idea, but it's plausible.

Good to know where we stand.

Where do you stand?

I think the far left’s obsession with the Middle East is weird.

[Mellsblue]

Looks like Boris could be the second or third best prime minister New Labour have ever had:

[Which Tyler]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/955f ... 41210fa214?

Boris Johnson has served notice that he intends to clip the power of the courts in what leading lawyers said was revenge for outlawing his attempt to suspend parliament.

The prime minister is understood to have insisted that the Conservative party manifesto include a promise of constitutional reform so that he could claim a mandate to reform the Supreme Court and House of Lords.

A little-noticed section of the manifesto, published this week, states that “after Brexit we also need to look at the broader aspects of our constitution: the relationship between the government, parliament and the courts; the functioning of the royal prerogative”.

[Puja]

Looks like Boris could be the second or third best prime minister New Labour have ever had:

Hah! For someone to have the audacity to call Boris's government centre-left just shows how far the Overton window has shifted right. He's promising to spend more that recent administrations, but that's a very low bar and, even if we assume that he'll keep his promises, he's still presiding over the lowest corporation tax in the G20, a DWP that has forced through benefit cuts and sanctions, and a minimum wage well below what's needed to live in a 40 hour week. He's also promised to use Brexit to cut "employer's red tape" which is usually code for employee's rights and introduce free ports which would cut tax on corporations even further.

Compared to Trump, he might be left wing, but not by any reasonable metric.

Puja

[Stom]

Looks like Boris could be the second or third best prime minister New Labour have ever had:

Hah! For someone to have the audacity to call Boris's government centre-left just shows how far the Overton window has shifted right. He's promising to spend more that recent administrations, but that's a very low bar and, even if we assume that he'll keep his promises, he's still presiding over the lowest corporation tax in the G20, a DWP that has forced through benefit cuts and sanctions, and a minimum wage well below what's needed to live in a 40 hour week. He's also promised to use Brexit to cut "employer's red tape" which is usually code for employee's rights and introduce free ports which would cut tax on corporations even further.

Compared to Trump, he might be left wing, but not by any reasonable metric.

Puja

Yeah, this seems to assume that Blair was left...

When he was centre right, mainly.

But all this is nonsense, we should be looking for a humanist party that takes from all sides

[Son of Mathonwy]

One unnamed prick has piped up and we know the conservatives really are like this. So, I assume given numerous anti-semites we know Labour really are anti-Semitic?

One unnamed prick? I thought when you said "bang to rights" that you accepted that this was true or pretty likely to be true, ie “If we are re-elected we will have to review Channel 4’s Public Services Broadcasting obligations." That's the conservative party, not some individual member of it.

Yep. I believe that an unnamed prick has said it. How that means the Conservatives as a party are all the same is quite the leap. Just because he said we doesn’t mean the party as a whole is like him. You’ve taken the words of one idiot and bracketed an entire party. From here on in, can I take the words of anyone associated to the Labour Party and then state the party as a whole are the same or believe the same?
Your silence on the anti-semitism stuff says a lot. It’s ok to criticise your own party, they haven’t control of your internet.....yet.

Ok, so what did you mean by "bang to rights"? What exactly did you concede at that point?

Let me clarify my language. When I said "the conservatives are really like this", I should have said "the people currently running the conservative party are really like this". Apologies if this caused offence.

I didn't realise you were asking me something about anti-semitism - I thought you were being rhetorical. What do you want to know?

[Son of Mathonwy]

Good to know where we stand.

Where do you stand?

I think the far left’s obsession with the Middle East is weird.

Ok, so you have no particular view on it?

[Mellsblue]

One unnamed prick? I thought when you said "bang to rights" that you accepted that this was true or pretty likely to be true, ie “If we are re-elected we will have to review Channel 4’s Public Services Broadcasting obligations." That's the conservative party, not some individual member of it.

Yep. I believe that an unnamed prick has said it. How that means the Conservatives as a party are all the same is quite the leap. Just because he said we doesn’t mean the party as a whole is like him. You’ve taken the words of one idiot and bracketed an entire party. From here on in, can I take the words of anyone associated to the Labour Party and then state the party as a whole are the same or believe the same?
Your silence on the anti-semitism stuff says a lot. It’s ok to criticise your own party, they haven’t control of your internet.....yet.

Ok, so what did you mean by "bang to rights"? What exactly did you concede at that point?

Let me clarify my language. When I said "the conservatives are really like this", I should have said "the people currently running the conservative party are really like this". Apologies if this caused offence.

I didn't realise you were asking me something about anti-semitism - I thought you were being rhetorical. What do you want to know?

It was a bit tongue in cheek. Hence me calling you ‘guv’. I totally agree that some prick has said it but it’s hardly party policy and, I’d hope, it’s certainly not the position of the majority of the party. Happy to concede it’s an incredibly dangerous thing to say, as I’ve already said on here today. I’m not happy to concede that the words of one idiot paints an entire party. Just as I wouldn’t paint the Labour Party as anti-Semitic due there being a number of anti-semites in the party.

Quite how the words of one unnamed man prove the Conservatives, current leadership group or wider, are ‘like that’, is beyond me.

I know everything I need to know about your stance on anti-semitism.

[Stom]

What's the betting that the Tory party are behind the fake Corbyn tweet?

[Mellsblue]

What's the betting that the Tory party are behind the fake Corbyn tweet?

?????

[Digby]

What's the betting that the Tory party are behind the fake Corbyn tweet?

?????

Did he apologise for being a racist and then claim it wasn't him?

[Mellsblue]

What's the betting that the Tory party are behind the fake Corbyn tweet?

?????

Did he apologise for being a racist and then claim it wasn't him?

You are being unfair. He was there when the tweet was composed but was not involved in the wording.