Clinton

[Lizard]

I'm basically resigned to Trump winning and on day one in the office nuking Pyongyang (because no one can tell him where the capital of ISIS is).


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[Eugene Wrayburn]

That's a marvellous pice of sexism. The Oxford graduate and barrister little lady couldn't possibly have a mind of her own.

Denis paid for her Bar qualifications,......how many cases did she actually deal with..?. Tax was her speciality wasn't it..?.
Not much time in court, no surprises that stealth tax has become central to how the upper class deal with this country and why they are giving away huge tax breaks to scum of the earth industrialists.

He paid her fees, which is not at all the same thing as paying for her qualifications. nice try to row out from your spectacular sexism.

[Sandydragon]

I'm basically resigned to Trump winning and on day one in the office nuking Pyongyang (because no one can tell him where the capital of ISIS is).


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I fear the possibility of President Trump is increasing. If he does win, the Demoncrats need to have a long hard look at themselves.

[jared_7]

I'm basically resigned to Trump winning and on day one in the office nuking Pyongyang (because no one can tell him where the capital of ISIS is).


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I fear the possibility of President Trump is increasing. If he does win, the Demoncrats need to have a long hard look at themselves.

You don't think after running a completely rigged primary campaign they already need to have a long hard look at themselves?

[Sandydragon]

I'm basically resigned to Trump winning and on day one in the office nuking Pyongyang (because no one can tell him where the capital of ISIS is).


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I fear the possibility of President Trump is increasing. If he does win, the Demoncrats need to have a long hard look at themselves.

You don't think after running a completely rigged primary campaign they already need to have a long hard look at themselves?

Probably, yet failing to beat trump will mean the end didn't justify the means.

[Digby]

There are many, many aspects of the US system which seem bonkers to me. From politicised offices such as Sheriffs, electing Judges, the conflicting roles of the Senate, Congress and the Office of the President, primaries and caucuses, the electoral college...

Then again I live in a country where 28% of the vote can quite easily deliver a majority government and we still haven't properly reformed the House of Lords, so...

[rowan]

I'm basically resigned to Clinton winning because Trump's an idiot, the US touting itself as the world champion of feminist ideals and women's equality, then even more wars in the Middle East killing countless women and girls, and resulting in more dictatorships and extremism that deny women's rights altogether. But so long as there's a female president, white middle class American women will be happy...

[Coco]

I'm basically resigned to Clinton winning because Trump's an idiot, the US touting itself as the world champion of feminist ideals and women's equality, then even more wars in the Middle East killing countless women and girls, and resulting in more dictatorships and extremism that deny women's rights altogether. But so long as there's a female president, white middle class American women will be happy...

You are really painting white middle class American women with a broad brush there, Rowan. Quite a few of us do not buy into the "feminist" aspect of any of this, let alone think for a moment that Hillary would be a champion for anything but chaos. We don't think with our ovaries, and it's really a bit insulting to read your sexist, racist, classist and belittling comments about White Middle class American Women each and every time you weigh in on what we think.

[rowan]

It's not sexist, racist or classist at all. That's your attempt to blackmail someone into silence because you don't like their opinion. Clinton herself has been playing the "vote for me because I'm a woman" card and a lot of her support will come from white middle class women. Not all of them, but that's a fact which has been propounded in the media. Anyway, if you're American you're in no position to assume the moral high ground with anyone. Your country has murdered more than 20 million people since WWII, including around 10 million Muslims since the beginning of the 1990s, and every taxpaying American is a party to that.

Meanwhile, I think we're going to see increasing confrontation with Russia once Clinton becomes president, because America's 'Iron Lady' will have to show that she can stand up to Putin et al. That's why they've selected her to be their next representative in international affairs. I'm pretty sure America is not going to give up on Syria either, and that right now the terrorist proxies are just re-organising. Who wins? The weapons dealers, of course. Who loses? Syrian men, women and children.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

It's not sexist, racist or classist at all. That's your attempt to blackmail someone into silence because you don't like their opinion. Clinton herself has been playing the "vote for me because I'm a woman" card and a lot of her support will come from white middle class women. Not all of them, but that's a fact which has been propounded in the media. Anyway, if you're American you're in no position to assume the moral high ground with anyone. Your country has murdered more than 20 million people since WWII, including around 10 million Muslims since the beginning of the 1990s, and every taxpaying American is a party to that.

Meanwhile, I think we're going to see increasing confrontation with Russia once Clinton becomes president, because America's 'Iron Lady' will have to show that she can stand up to Putin et al. That's why they've selected her to be their next representative in international affairs. I'm pretty sure America is not going to give up on Syria either, and that right now the terrorist proxies are just re-organising. Who wins? The weapons dealers, of course.

If it's racist to say that all brown people are islamic terrorists it's no less racist to say all white americans are mass murderers. Get a grip.

[rowan]

But that's not what I wrote, is it? I said all taxpaying Americans, and this includes Americans of every race, gender and creed who pays taxes - and does not actively protest against their government's actions.

& how many times have we read that Trump gains most of his support from misogynist (therefore presumably male) rednecks (therefore presumably white)? But suggest Clinton gains much of hers from middle class white women and suddenly the accusations start flying.

Donald J. Trump’s support among white men, the linchpin of his presidential campaign, is showing surprising signs of weakness that could foreclose his only remaining path to victory in November.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/19/us/po ... e-men.html

[Digby]

It's not sexist, racist or classist at all. That's your attempt to blackmail someone into silence because you don't like their opinion. Clinton herself has been playing the "vote for me because I'm a woman" card and a lot of her support will come from white middle class women. Not all of them, but that's a fact which has been propounded in the media. Anyway, if you're American you're in no position to assume the moral high ground with anyone. Your country has murdered more than 20 million people since WWII, including around 10 million Muslims since the beginning of the 1990s, and every taxpaying American is a party to that.

Meanwhile, I think we're going to see increasing confrontation with Russia once Clinton becomes president, because America's 'Iron Lady' will have to show that she can stand up to Putin et al. That's why they've selected her to be their next representative in international affairs. I'm pretty sure America is not going to give up on Syria either, and that right now the terrorist proxies are just re-organising. Who wins? The weapons dealers, of course. Who loses? Syrian men, women and children.

On such basis everyone who consumes US products, whether beer, soft drinks, music, film... is also party to it. Also the figures being used for the numbers killed by the US are nonsensical as is the idea the US has murdered them. And from where you're drawing the inspiration to lecture others on women's rights I've no idea, but if you do now think it's a valid topic perhaps have a look in a mirror and have a word with yourself

[BBD]

I had a hamburger and fries with a Diet Coke at TGI Fridays the other day, I didn't have a starter, but I did have a Mississippi mud pie for dessert.....just how complicit am I?

[rowan]

My preference is Jill Stein. I wouldn't vote for Trump, precisely because he is a misogynist racist, but I wouldn't vote for Hillary either, simply because she panders to false ideals. She thinks America did the right thing in Afghanistan, too, back in the 70s when they removed the socialist government, even though, by her own admission, it didn't work out too well. In fact, the socialist government of the 1970s included equal rights for women right across the board. America sent in the Muhajideen to destroy that and today there are few countries on the planet where women currently have fewer rights. However, one country where women pretty much have no rights is Saudi Arabia. Guess who just brokered a lucrative arms deal with them? Your future president, ladies and gentlemen.

The statistics for casualties resulting from US wars and interventions since WWII, and specifically relating to Muslims since the beginning of the 1990s, were given by American sources themselves. However, exact figures would be nearly impossible to attain, partly because the US military doesn't do body counts on non-Americans. Your viewpoint nonetheless comes across as denialist.

[Coco]

I had a hamburger and fries with a Diet Coke at TGI Fridays the other day, I didn't have a starter, but I did have a Mississippi mud pie for dessert.....just how complicit am I?

TGI Fridays... Thats soooooo 90's BBD

[rowan]

Quite a few of us do not buy into the "feminist" aspect of any of this, let alone think for a moment that Hillary would be a champion for anything but chaos

This is a fair point. I apologise for the generalisation, but we're on a chat board and sometimes a bit lazy with our wording.

[BBD]

I had a hamburger and fries with a Diet Coke at TGI Fridays the other day, I didn't have a starter, but I did have a Mississippi mud pie for dessert.....just how complicit am I?

TGI Fridays... Thats soooooo 90's BBD

I was going retro, ya baggage! It was eaten ironically

[Coco]

But that's not what I wrote, is it? I said all taxpaying Americans, and this includes Americans of every race, gender and creed who pays taxes - and does not actively protest against their government's actions.

& how many times have we read that Trump gains most of his support from misogynist (therefore presumably male) rednecks (therefore presumably white)? But suggest Clinton gains much of hers from middle class white women and suddenly the accusations start flying.

Donald J. Trump’s support among white men, the linchpin of his presidential campaign, is showing surprising signs of weakness that could foreclose his only remaining path to victory in November.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/19/us/po ... e-men.html

Jesus Christ you cannot possibly believe any of this is accurate, not to mention quoting NY Times? Biased much? Hillary and white middle class women is about as true as Trump and misogynist rednecks. Please do yoursrlf a favor and give a different perspective a chance. Honestly Rowan, you do have some insightful posts but this is putting a huge crack in your credibility and judgement.

[rowan]

The war profiteers will be happy if Hillary gets elected, the banks too, and the corporate elite are all backing her. I think Donald Trump just has angry white guys and a nutty billionaire or two behind him. Hopefully a lot of voters will look to a third party candidate this time. Make the Democratic Party earn this vote, not assume it.

[Coco]

Quite a few of us do not buy into the "feminist" aspect of any of this, let alone think for a moment that Hillary would be a champion for anything but chaos

This is a fair point. I apologise for the generalisation, but we're on a chat board and sometimes a bit lazy with our wording.

No need to apologize.. Everyone is most definitely entitled to their opinion. It really comes off terrible though, and I can only hope I misread the intent. Intent is key.

[rowan]

not to mention quoting NY Times?

No, I'm not quoting them as a source of credible information, perish the thought, just presenting an example of generalisations also being applied to Trump's support base.

[Coco]

not to mention quoting NY Times?

No, I'm not quoting them as a source of credible information, perish the thought, just presenting an example of generalisations also being applied to Trump's support base.

Yes, I am fairly sure the majority of informed adults realize the generalisations go both ways in the media. Leave that to the window licking so called unbiased journalists. Be a better example of tolerance by accepting that most informed people, whether you agree with them or not, have valid opinions which may have just as much merit as your own opinions. It really is the only way anything will ever change. [/endmomrant]

[Donny osmond]

First this...

It's not sexist, racist or classist at all. That's your attempt to blackmail someone into silence because you don't like their opinion.

But then, hilariously, this:

Anyway, if you're American you're in no position to assume the moral high ground with anyone. Your country has murdered more than 20 million people since WWII, including around 10 million Muslims since the beginning of the 1990s, and every taxpaying American is a party to that.

Of course, using the words "white" "middle class" and "women" as implied insults, either individually or collectively, does hit the full house of racism, classism and sexism.... but as its aimed at Americans it's ok. That's just the way it is, Coco.

[Donny osmond]

Btw, there is nothing wrong with TGI Fridays.

[BBD]

Btw, there is nothing wrong with TGI Fridays.

Try telling that to white middle class American women and see what happens