Eng U20s 2023

[Epaminondas Pules]

There was a spell where we gave away six pens in a row, but they were different. Not rolling away, offside, scrum. One of the offsides was from where the Fijian 9 inadvertently dummied to pass cause he didn't pick the ball up well. And regardless that's the the coaches. We exited the breakdown pretty well all match and got caught for one in the second half where we didn't. No biggie. It happens.

Terrible conditions. Points in the bag. All good. Could it have been better, yes. Even in our better play execution wasn't always there. But it's a win. On to Aus.

Stand out moments for the day though were Rugby Pass posting the NZ haka with the headline "Chills" only to see them get proper fucked by France, and SA finding out that this Italy U20 side ain't half bad. Pool C is a right old mess. Any one of the four could top it.

France should top Pool A with 14/15 points unless Wales shock them; NZ probably 2nd with 10 pts. Pool B should end up with England and Ireland with 12/13 points each. Pool C is interesting, with Arg and SA facing off and Georgia and Italy. Could be Italy's to go through if they can bang Georgia with a BP and a good scoreline, unless Arg get a BP win in which case they can;t be caught.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Ignore me Italy got the BP, so it's really anyones

[Which Tyler]

Yeah, literally anyone can go through from Pool C depending on results - but the winner of SA v Arg has a big advantage in PD if they can keep that match a high-scoring one (so 5 points for the winner).
Georgia missed out on any BPs, so to go through, they need SA v Arg to be low scoring; and to take 5 from Italy.
If SA v Arg winner does take 5 points, then Italy will have a 22 or 28 PD defecit to make up. Of course though, if SA v Arg is low scoring, then any BP victory would be god enough for Italy.



For the sake of hilarity, I'd like to see a low-score match between SA and Arg (which unfortunately, kicks off after Italy v Geo*); then a relatively small victory for Italy, but with a TBP; so Italy go through, despite being the only team in the pool with a negative PD.


* looking at the schedule for Tuesday, that's really weird, and unfortunate. final matches of Pools A and B are played more-or-less simultaneously, kicking off half an hour apart; whilst Pool C has an 8 hour delay between Italy v Geo and SA v Arg, giving SA & Arg a huge advantage.

In Pool B, England have the advantage over Ireland with the slightly later KO, so from half time, they'll basically know what they have to do, and will be able to confirm it by the time the subs are coming on.

As each pool has 1 match being played in each stadium, why on earth can't they KO simultaneously? It's not like even broadcasters benefit from a half-hour delay in KO, they still can't cover both matches; whilst simultaneous bumps up the tension for the match being shown.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Yeah that points difference could be a step too far. They have to beat Georgia first, which is no walk in the park, and then chock up a proper scoreline.

Finger's crossed for a close, low scoring game between Arg and SA. Like you I'll be laughing into next week!

Tough to call in England's group. Ireland have Fiji who will really struggle against this Irish team and the pack in particular. England have a 26 PD lead on Ireland, which might be enough to see them home, They need a BP win against Aus, so that number will increase.

[Which Tyler]

I'd also say that Fiji will be way more demoralised than Aus, and way more likely to just give up and roll over.

They may well not; but if I had to put money on either Fiji or Aus giving away 50+ points, it'd be the team that gave away 50+ points in terrible conditions to an opponent's 2nd XV

[Puja]

I'd also say that Fiji will be way more demoralised than Aus, and way more likely to just give up and roll over.

They may well not; but if I had to put money on either Fiji or Aus giving away 50+ points, it'd be the team that gave away 50+ points in terrible conditions to an opponent's 2nd XV

Mind, as the commentary pointed out, Fiji need to start getting themselves together for their relegation play-offs, so they do still have something to fight for. I think it'll come down to the weather and pitch - if it's a mudbath, then Ireland will put as many points as they want to on Fiji. If the sun's out, I still can't see any other result but an Irish win, but it'll at least be closer.

Puja

[Epaminondas Pules]

Fiji looked very unFiji like. Hopefully they find their mojo and give Ireland a good game.

[16th man]

Is anyone going to be touching that French team if they turn up with their minds on it?

[Which Tyler]

Hard to say.
They've been very impressive; but then, so have Ireland and England. Hard to say without knowing the quality of the oppositions.

Ireland beat France in February, but then, they beat England as well.
Wales performance in the 6N, and how hard they made it for the Baby Blacks doesn't say good things about NZ at the moment.

France have got to be favourites, and they'll have to do it the hard way, and beat both England and Ireland in the SF and F, whichever way around that ends up being. But I don't think a loss at SF or F stage would be a shock.

[FKAS]

The Italy captain was up for it.

[Puja]

FB_IMG_1688312882132.jpg

Evolution in the back row - we now have a 6 and two 8s, instead of a lock and two 8s!

Puja

[Tom Moore]

That is an enormous pack.

[FKAS]

We've had a big pack for a while, didn't help much in the 6N when it was even bigger. Got to hope Michelow can bring some breakdown skills to the party.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Really pleased to see Jibulu start. Theobald-Thomas is a bit meh. Very dynamic and also horrible front row.

[FKAS]

Really pleased to see Jibulu start. Theobald-Thomas is a bit meh. Very dynamic and also horrible front row.

FTT looks good around the park, work rate is impressive. Scrum looks weaker with him in there and his throwing in has been ropey. Needs to get those basics down if he wants to make it, luckily he's joining Tigers after this tournament where they will no doubt be hammered in.

[Puja]

Yeah that points difference could be a step too far. They have to beat Georgia first, which is no walk in the park, and then chock up a proper scoreline.

Finger's crossed for a close, low scoring game between Arg and SA. Like you I'll be laughing into next week!

Tough to call in England's group. Ireland have Fiji who will really struggle against this Irish team and the pack in particular. England have a 26 PD lead on Ireland, which might be enough to see them home, They need a BP win against Aus, so that number will increase.

Georgia have just given Italy a going over! If Argentina beat South Africa without a bonus point, Georgia go through. With a bonus point, Argentina go through. Any South Africa win and they go through. What a group that is!

Puja

[Which Tyler]

Georgia have just given Italy a going over! If Argentina beat South Africa without a bonus point, Georgia go through. With a bonus point, Argentina go through. Any South Africa win and they go through. What a group that is!

Huh?

Surely they've got a 21 point deficit to make up on Georgia if they win without a TBP?

Whoever wins between Argentina / South Africa will surely need to take the full 5 points to go through; with points deficits of 15 or 21 (so unlikely to get a high enough points difference without also scoring 4 tries).

ETA: Or does a victory over the tied opponent come before points difference / tries scored etc

[Puja]

Georgia have just given Italy a going over! If Argentina beat South Africa without a bonus point, Georgia go through. With a bonus point, Argentina go through. Any South Africa win and they go through. What a group that is!

Huh?

Surely they've got a 21 point deficit to make up on Georgia if they win without a TBP?

Whoever wins between Argentina / South Africa will surely need to take the full 5 points to go through; with points deficits of 15 or 21 (so unlikely to get a high enough points difference without also scoring 4 tries).

ETA: Or does a victory over the tied opponent come before points difference / tries scored etc

According to the IRB website, it's on head-to-head first, then points difference. I only found that out today too.

Puja

[Puja]

12 minutes into Ireland vs Fiji, Ireland are scoring at a point a minute and I don't think Fiji have had the ball yet.

Puja

[Which Tyler]

Weather looking good for Fiji v Ireland* - but so far, not being the leveller the Fijians would have hoped for.
Ireland looking pretty ruthless so far.

I still don't like (or understand why) England get such an advantage over Ireland with the later KO - let alone the advantage SA/Arg get over Georgia/Italy


*ETA, and as I hit "submit" the commentators say that the weather is heavily favouring Ireland - despite being full sun, and the ground not really cutting up (though still bearing plenty of scars from the last 10 days)

[Mr Mwenda]

I fear that the Irish are going to comfortably smash England's total over Fiji. 12-0 after 12 minutes and looking rather effortless feel for both teams in white....

[Mr Mwenda]

Fiji fight back, g'wan lads! I was sure the Irish would turn them over when they started driving.

[Which Tyler]

I fear that the Irish are going to comfortably smash England's total over Fiji. 12-0 after 12 minutes and looking rather effortless feel for both teams in white....

They need to.
We've got a 26 point head start going into today; so they need to beat Fiji by 26 more than we beat Aus (we of course, still need to put Aus away, but barring a century for Ireland, it'll be in our own hands)

[Puja]

Weird game. Ireland domination in lineout, scrum, and general ball retention, but utterly incapable of taking kick-offs which is keeping Fiji in the game.

Puja

[Which Tyler]

Oh yeah, Georgia's win essentially confirms that both Ireland and England qualify - it's just a case of who gets France in the SF