Eng U20s 2023

[Margin_Walker]

U20s EPS announced today. Looks pretty strong on paper, with one point of interest the appearance of Hathaway, who was involved for Wales U20s last year.

From a LI point of view, it's interesting to see Fasogbon (prop) involved. Only turned 18 at the end of August, but is a massive human and was pretty dominant carrying the ball at U18s.

Forwards
Archie McArthur (Gloucester)
George Patten (Northampton Saints)
Calum Scott (London Irish)
Finn Theobald-Thomas (Gloucester)
Nathan Jibulu (Harlequins)
Afolabi Fasogbon (London Irish)
James Halliwell (Bristol Bears)
Tim Hoyt (Leicester Tigers)
Harry Browne (Harlequins)
Lewis Chessum (Leicester Tigers)
Danny Eite (Gloucester)
Robert Carmichael (Leicester Tigers)
Finn Carnduff (Leicester Tigers)
Joshua Manz (Leicester Tigers)
Guy Pepper (Newcastle Falcons)
Josh Dingley (Bath Rugby)
Chandler Cunningham-South (London Irish)
Greg Fisilau (Exeter Chiefs)

Backs
Charlie Bracken (Saracens)
Nye Thomas (Sale Sharks)
Sam Harris (Bath Rugby)
Sam Worsley (Bristol Bears)
Cassius Cleaves (Harlequins)
Joseph Woodward (Leicester Tigers)
Rekeiti Ma'asi-White (Sale Sharks)
Benjamin Waghorn (Harlequins)
Jacob Cusick (Leicester Tigers)
Joe Jenkins (Bristol Bears)
Josh Hathaway (Gloucester)
Tobias Elliott (Saracens)
Connor Slevin (Harlequins)
Louie Johnson (Newcastle Falcons)

[Puja]

Hell of a fillip for the Leicester academy to have 7 representatives in the squad. It's incredible to see how far we've come from the nadir of the mid-2010s where we just stopped producing players. Really pleasing and a reward for the great work that the rebuilt development teams have done.

Could be a good year for the U20s - I've heard very good things about Pepper and Carnduff, and everyone's seen Cunningham-South and Fisilau looking good at adult level. In the backs, I'm excited to see more of Cleaves and Nye Thomas is supposed to be someone we very much want to keep the Welsh away from.

Puja

[Margin_Walker]

That back row's probably most eye catching aspect.

6 - Cunningham South
7 - Pepper
8 - Fisilau

Has a very decent look to it. All three look really tidy. Especially with the likes of Chessum packing down in front.

[Banquo]

Hell of a fillip for the Leicester academy to have 7 representatives in the squad. It's incredible to see how far we've come from the nadir of the mid-2010s where we just stopped producing players. Really pleasing and a reward for the great work that the rebuilt development teams have done.

Could be a good year for the U20s - I've heard very good things about Pepper and Carnduff, and everyone's seen Cunningham-South and Fisilau looking good at adult level. In the backs, I'm excited to see more of Cleaves and Nye Thomas is supposed to be someone we very much want to keep the Welsh away from.

Puja

that's what happens when you relentlessly poach from schools and junior clubs

Seriously good scouting and a good 'offer'. Great turnaround- clubs really are missing a trick if not developing the young talent out there.

[FKAS]

If Lewis Chessum and Carmichael combine at lock then we probably won't need lifters in the lineout. Of the two Carmichael is the taller.

Good to see Tom Hoyt in there again this season. He's been on loan at various different clubs to try and get him as much senior experience as possible. At 6ft2 and 20 stone he's another big prospect at prop.

Feels like Cleeves has been around his age group for about five years now. Pepper looks a very good openside in the making. Some good resources available in that backrow. Glad Nye Thomas is in there, I thought one of the downfalls in the summer was our lack of quality at 9.

[fivepointer]

Some of these forwards are massive.
Fasogben is 6'3' 20st, Halliwell 6'2' 20st, Carmichael is 6'11', Browne 6'7', Chessum was huge last season, if he's grown....

Joe Jenkins has looked good for Bristol and Pepper has started a few games for Newcastle. Carnduff looks a really good player and we know about Fisilau and Cunningham-South.

No place for Henry Pollack the Saints flanker who excelled for the u18.s.

Very unlikely we'll field our best XV during the 6N's but there is some serious quality in this group.

[Puja]

Glad Nye Thomas is in there, I thought one of the downfalls in the summer was our lack of quality at 9.

9 is always our problem at this level, with the exceptions of the brief time that JVP and Quirke spent with the U20s.

Some of these forwards are massive.
Fasogben is 6'3' 20st, Halliwell 6'2' 20st, Carmichael is 6'11', Browne 6'7', Chessum was huge last season, if he's grown....

That is ridiculous. What are the families feeding these kids?!

Hoyt's pushing 20 stone as well - put Fisilau and Cunningham-South in the back row and we won't be lacking for weight at the scrums.

Puja

[Timbo]

Will be very interesting to see how many full cap Scottish internationals we can develop out of this lot. Exciting times.

[Mikey Brown]

Will be very interesting to see how many full cap Scottish internationals we can develop out of this lot. Exciting times.

I guess a Calcutta cup win is an alluring prospect.

[Timbo]

I’m sure it looks great alongside all those other trophies….

[FKAS]

Will be very interesting to see how many full cap S̶c̶o̶t̶t̶i̶s̶h̶ Welsh internationals we can develop out of this lot. Exciting times.

Fixed that for you.

I'm sure Gatland is already looking at the second rows with interest.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Pollock is still at school, whilst it is a seriously competitive backrow.

[Puja]

From a LI point of view, it's interesting to see Fasogbon (prop) involved. Only turned 18 at the end of August, but is a massive human and was pretty dominant carrying the ball at U18s.

That is not a small human.

I change my question from "What are families feeding these kids?" to "How are families feeding these kids?" Can't imagine it's cheap to fuel up an 18 year old of that size, especially with food prices the way they are!

Puja

[Margin_Walker]

Ha, that's him at 16 I think.

He's grown since then. This is him (on the far left) after the Prem Cup win against Quins in September.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Was just going to say they should check the picture from his LI debut

[Puja]

Ha, that's him at 16 I think.

He's grown since then. This is him (on the far left) after the Prem Cup win against Quins in September.

Bloody hellfire. His torso is very nearly twice the width of the (not small) guy next to him.

Just imagining a hooker the size of Harry Thacker trying to get his bind on that at the scrum.

Puja

[Timbo]

Is a tighthead or loosehead?

[Margin_Walker]

He's a tighthead. Although he also spent a bit of time here and there playing 8 in the ACE League

[FKAS]

We're going big on tightheads. I think I've posted this before and it's Oct 2020.

[Margin_Walker]

I remember that picture from last year. Great story. Good to see that he has another year at this level.

[SDHoneymonster]

U20s EPS announced today. Looks pretty strong on paper, with one point of interest the appearance of Hathaway, who was involved for Wales U20s last year.

Is Hathaway actually qualified? You don't have to be to play in the U20 6N, hence why Mat Protheroe played for England and Alex Dombrandt for Wales at that level. Joe Jenkins is another who is Welsh-born and raised, but not sure if he's qualified through a parent or residency already. If they're playing in England it's probably just easier for them to play for the England U20s (Tshiunza appeared a couple of times for this reason without ever intending to play for the full England side).

[Margin_Walker]

U20s EPS announced today. Looks pretty strong on paper, with one point of interest the appearance of Hathaway, who was involved for Wales U20s last year.

Is Hathaway actually qualified? You don't have to be to play in the U20 6N, hence why Mat Protheroe played for England and Alex Dombrandt for Wales at that level. Joe Jenkins is another who is Welsh-born and raised, but not sure if he's qualified through a parent or residency already. If they're playing in England it's probably just easier for them to play for the England U20s (Tshiunza appeared a couple of times for this reason without ever intending to play for the full England side).

Not sure whether he's qualified. What I'd question though is why in his case on the second point. He's only in Gloucester, it can't be that logistically difficult for him to stay with the Wales setup if his plan ultimately is to play for Wales.

[16th man]

U20s EPS announced today. Looks pretty strong on paper, with one point of interest the appearance of Hathaway, who was involved for Wales U20s last year.

Is Hathaway actually qualified? You don't have to be to play in the U20 6N, hence why Mat Protheroe played for England and Alex Dombrandt for Wales at that level. Joe Jenkins is another who is Welsh-born and raised, but not sure if he's qualified through a parent or residency already. If they're playing in England it's probably just easier for them to play for the England U20s (Tshiunza appeared a couple of times for this reason without ever intending to play for the full England side).

Not sure whether he's qualified. What I'd question though is why in his case on the second point. He's only in Gloucester, it can't be that logistically difficult for him to stay with the Wales setup if his plan ultimately is to play for Wales.

Given the shit show over there at the moment it could just be he's being advised to use any excuse to keep his options open.

[SDHoneymonster]

Could say the same for Jenkins, being based in Bristol, but I do think it can become an issue: the Wales U20 set-up prioritises those who stay for access reasons. I think it's a marriage of convenience for a lot of them - I think a lot of young players like to take advantage of the club and school facilities here before heading back over the bridge, and the money is better at academy level - but for all the gnashing of teeth from Wales Online about England poaching young Welsh players I can't really remember one of these young U20 prospects actually going on to play for England over Wales. The Vunipola boys are probably the obvious ones, but they left Wales some time before they were old enough for age grade international rugby and therefore I don't really think you can call them a poach. Most of the others have either gone on to be capped by Wales - Tshiunza, Moriarty - or have moved back to Wales but remain uncapped; Clark, Moore, Protheroe. Maybe Harry Randall?

[Margin_Walker]

Sure, clearly makes more sense at U18s as a lot of Welsh players end up at the likes of Hartpury and Millfield for schooling. Welsh players on pro senior academy contracts in the West Country playing Eng U20s like Jenkins and Hathaway is more interesting. What you would say, is that if they were good enough to go further (and qualified for Eng) they would probably get the call from Wales first given the smaller player pool.