COVID19

[Son of Mathonwy]

Looking at Wiki, 100,000 is more than the (UK) civilian casualties from all wars of the 20th century

And that's just the knowingly underestimated government number.

[Sandydragon]

"both sides"? The laws of nature Vs. unsubstantiated anecdote?

I hope he was thinking about the squabbles over supplied between countries.

Ah. I see.

I was. Neither side is acting the adult in this situation. Its time for grown up diplomacy not soundbites in the media.

[Digby]

I hope he was thinking about the squabbles over supplied between countries.

Ah. I see.

I was. Neither side is acting the adult in this situation. Its time for grown up diplomacy not soundbites in the media.

Of course all the time there's diplomacy the richest countries are taking up nearly all the vaccine stocks available. Though I suppose by dint of being the richest they've the oldest (and often fattest) to look after

Nonetheless I don wonder what the best global solution to vaccine rollout would have looked like, something there's been little speculation on never mind any actual detail. Suffice to say given a global rollout hasn't been the route taken nobody in any government should be claiming they've been guided by the science, rather they should acknowledge it's more a desperate scramble in the name of self interest

[Mikey Brown]

Pretty incredible stuff.

[Sandydragon]

Pretty incredible stuff.

Bloody hell!

First of all, my utmost respect to the doctor in keeping his cool there. I'm sure he is absolutely exhausted anyway and really doesn't need that.

It is a bit concerning that the family (and friends?) can just get access like that and disrupt the provision of critical care. The old man was obviously in real problems and needed oxygen constantly. I personally do not think that the usual approach of being able to decline treatment and be allowed to die at home works in a pandemic where stopping the spread is so important (lawyers may disagree).

I've dealt with lots of people who have gotten advice from someone and think they understand the law or the best course of action to take. usually they are too pig ignorant to really understand. None of which is helped by the anti-tax and covid denier community who are putting lives at risk.

Increase security at hospitals to prevent medical staff having to deal with issues like that and if anyone wishes to challenge the medical treatment received by their family then take it to court and wait your turn being the thousands of backlogged cases.

I just hope that there is sufficient protection for medical staff in the event of people dying against future legal challenges about the appropriateness of care.

[Digby]

I too have oxygen at home, I keep it in all the rooms really. It's good to know I'll live as a consequence of this oxygen being present in the event I find myself dying.

[Sandydragon]

I too have oxygen at home, I keep it in all the rooms really. It's good to know I'll live as a consequence of this oxygen being present in the event I find myself dying.

I'm still waiting to see what the woman who was next of kin has to say for herself. I wonder if it might be relevant, informed and useful. Or just bollocks.

[Digby]

I too have oxygen at home, I keep it in all the rooms really. It's good to know I'll live as a consequence of this oxygen being present in the event I find myself dying.

I'm still waiting to see what the woman who was next of kin has to say for herself. I wonder if it might be relevant, informed and useful. Or just bollocks.

My mother has taken to reading Mumsnet during lockdown, she's promising she's not posting and is only reading, but I'm getting 2-3 updates a day on just what bollocks is out there, lord knows how many updates my sister is getting, more fool her for answering the phone. Today's only update so far was about Owen Jones, but I suspect there's more to come

[Sandydragon]

We are reaping the whirlwind of decades of distrust in the government. All those idiots who have stated repeatedly that the government is lying to us over and over again have convinced more people, to the point where you get current levels of distrust. At some point it was always going to stop being harmless annoyance and actually have an impact.

I hope the eventual inquiry into this might touch upon the lack of trust in the government (and I don't just mean government competence which is an issue in itself) but this belief that the government is actively conspiring against joe public.

[Digby]

The government might like to argue how it's not conspiring against Joe Public looking at life expectancy across society, at wage disparities, inequalities in general tbh. It'd say it'd be a hard sell, but then one looks at who's in government and who won the Brexit vote, so maybe it'd be better to say it'd be a hard sell if being truthful

[Sandydragon]

The government might like to argue how it's not conspiring against Joe Public looking at life expectancy across society, at wage disparities, inequalities in general tbh. It'd say it'd be a hard sell, but then one looks at who's in government and who won the Brexit vote, so maybe it'd be better to say it'd be a hard sell if being truthful

Accepting that politicians lie, or at least dont tell the whole truth vs global conspiracies and actively harming their populations. There is a significant difference in trying to win an election and enslaving their population into a global, lizard run network, MSM is all lies etc.

Even if you don't believe Boris (and who would) you have to be pretty far gone not to believe the WHO, the scientific advisors and NHS leadership and doctors who appear on the TV etc.

[Stom]

The government might like to argue how it's not conspiring against Joe Public looking at life expectancy across society, at wage disparities, inequalities in general tbh. It'd say it'd be a hard sell, but then one looks at who's in government and who won the Brexit vote, so maybe it'd be better to say it'd be a hard sell if being truthful

Accepting that politicians lie, or at least dont tell the whole truth vs global conspiracies and actively harming their populations. There is a significant difference in trying to win an election and enslaving their population into a global, lizard run network, MSM is all lies etc.

Even if you don't believe Boris (and who would) you have to be pretty far gone not to believe the WHO, the scientific advisors and NHS leadership and doctors who appear on the TV etc.

But it’s not a big leap from actively harming your population in order to make your country a tax Haven to make more money for your friends...

This brexit has actively harmed the UK population for the gain of the few.

So I can understand it to an extent.

But the level of idiocy is insane. I mean what benefit do they get from all these theories? There’s literally nothing the “elite” could get from this. They want money and power, they’re not going to get that by killing you off or offering a free vaccine...

[morepork]

The incompetence of many governments worldwide is fucking this up for the rest. USA, UK, Brazil etc are promoting evolution of the virus and the fixing of virulent mutations that they are then spreading around the world. The fucking planet needs vaccinating. I am fucked off because I will unlikely be able to go home for another 1-2 years. It should have been contained and then vaccinated. Fucking unbelievable. There are 12 scheduled Philly-London flights today. FFS.

[Galfon]

The EU-AstraZeneca spat looks a bit like panic stations.
Raiding the plant in Brussels to do spot-checks, and trying to
divert some of the AZ supply from elsewhere ..though 50m dose shortfall by end Mar is some dent (< 50 % of agreed).Looks like a difficult square to circle.
Meanwhile..'The coronavirus variant identified in South Africa has reached the U.S. with two cases diagnosed in South Carolina, the state reported. The cases were not related, and neither person had a known history of travel..' (Bloom.)
Race is on, #34..

[Galfon]

Beeb: 'Urgent testing for the South Africa variant of coronavirus is to start in parts of England, after cases were found with no known links to travel or previous cases.
Two cases were found in Surrey, and testing will also take place in London, Kent, Hertfordshire and Walsall..

Community transmission a possibility - current vaccines effectiveness for this will be interesting.

[Digby]

The ongoing refusal to insist on travellers going into quarantine looks worse and worse

[Which Tyler]

Community transmission a possibility - current vaccines effectiveness for this will be interesting.

They mentioned earlier that Pfizer vaccine is thought to be about 60% effective against the SA variant - not as good as against other variants, but better than nothing, and better than the WHO original estimate of needed effectiveness* (assuming 80% uptake). 80% uptake estimate is higher than we usually see for flu, but seems to be about right in the priority groups.


They'd estimated 50% effectiveness at 80% takeup would be needed to significantly suppress (I think that was the phrase used) covid - it won't eliminate it, but it will keep it from growing exponentially

The ongoing refusal to insist on travellers going into quarantine looks worse and worse

Not to mention the "least surprising news of the year so far" that organised criminals (and presumably disorganised ones) are sell fake negative test / safe to fly documents, and touting them at airports for a couple of hundred quid

[Galfon]

Fra. may be next to cop for the newbie ..scientists & public majority want lockdown, M. le President: 'Non' preferring the status quo of nightime curfews etc.
"When you're French, you have everything you need to succeed providing you dare to try."
he reportedly asserted.
Big call after the sluggish vaccination take-off.

[Digby]

Interesting to see the impact on influenza, both that it's right down this season, and that numbers are now so low it'll drive problems in determining the newly modelled version needed to protect for the coming season.

[Stom]

As Hungary is likely to be pushing the Chinese and maybe Russian vaccines, I did a small amount of research.

So they're simple vaccines, not RNA vaccines like Pfizer and Moderna... And they have unreliable efficiency - reported 79% in some places and as low as 50% elsewhere...

It doesn't convince me, especially as we don't have access to any data, unlike the main ones.

And on the main ones, an image of the Astra Zeneca "ingredients" list has been doing the rounds on social and how terrible it includes monkey and human...

Do these people not have any common sense or concept of reality? Why the hell would a company put that in a vaccine when it's so incredibly expensive!!! And then sell it for £3 a pop, the cheapest one!

FFS, these idiots.

[Digby]

50% might well not be that low for a vaccine

Of particular interest will be that the MRNA vaccine should prove easily the quickest to produce updated versions of in response to variants in the virus, but that is pricey and presents the problem of distribution in a cold chain. Though there's very little communication on just how long this will all be with us for and how impactful it'll be, whether it's simply not known, or whether they don't think we'll struggle to accept the vaccines might not allow a reversion to societal norms and we need short term targets I don't know

[Which Tyler]

50% might well not be that low for a vaccine

Of particular interest will be that the MRNA vaccine should prove easily the quickest to produce updated versions of in response to variants in the virus, but that is pricey and presents the problem of distribution in a cold chain. Though there's very little communication on just how long this will all be with us for and how impactful it'll be, whether it's simply not known, or whether they don't think we'll struggle to accept the vaccines might not allow a reversion to societal norms and we need short term targets I don't know

Yup

[Sandydragon]

50% might well not be that low for a vaccine

Of particular interest will be that the MRNA vaccine should prove easily the quickest to produce updated versions of in response to variants in the virus, but that is pricey and presents the problem of distribution in a cold chain. Though there's very little communication on just how long this will all be with us for and how impactful it'll be, whether it's simply not known, or whether they don't think we'll struggle to accept the vaccines might not allow a reversion to societal norms and we need short term targets I don't know

Yup

Which is why I was groaning again at Boris announcement that summer holidays would be back on the cards again. SO many imponderables, better to manage expectations rather than over promise. Again.

[Digby]

50% might well not be that low for a vaccine

Of particular interest will be that the MRNA vaccine should prove easily the quickest to produce updated versions of in response to variants in the virus, but that is pricey and presents the problem of distribution in a cold chain. Though there's very little communication on just how long this will all be with us for and how impactful it'll be, whether it's simply not known, or whether they don't think we'll struggle to accept the vaccines might not allow a reversion to societal norms and we need short term targets I don't know

Yup

Which is why I was groaning again at Boris announcement that summer holidays would be back on the cards again. SO many imponderables, better to manage expectations rather than over promise. Again.

I don't know if he's trying to give us false hope, or suggest to the travel industry they don't need to compensate them because things will be back soon. Maybe this is the best messaging strategy they have to control public panic, constantly shifting/managing expectations, even if for myself I'd prefer to know how they see this actually playing out

[morepork]

As Hungary is likely to be pushing the Chinese and maybe Russian vaccines, I did a small amount of research.

So they're simple vaccines, not RNA vaccines like Pfizer and Moderna... And they have unreliable efficiency - reported 79% in some places and as low as 50% elsewhere...

It doesn't convince me, especially as we don't have access to any data, unlike the main ones.

And on the main ones, an image of the Astra Zeneca "ingredients" list has been doing the rounds on social and how terrible it includes monkey and human...

Do these people not have any common sense or concept of reality? Why the hell would a company put that in a vaccine when it's so incredibly expensive!!! And then sell it for £3 a pop, the cheapest one!

FFS, these idiots.

It’s a chimpanzee adenovirus. This is an inactivated vehicle for delivery of the same instructions encoded by the mRNA vaccines. The target antigen,encoded by the DNA delivered by the chimp adenovirus is identical to that encoded by the mRNA vaccines. Adenovirus is abundant in the human population as it is one of the causes of the common cold. We can deal with it. You are barking up the wrong tree.