Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:50 pm
I feel to much weight is being given to the decision to kick it out. It's a stand-alone fixture. Yes it might be nice to have gone for the win but I can't begrudge a bunch of pros recovering from a shit day at the office to bank the comeback and get to the pub. I think psychologically the damage to NZ is greater in this situation.
well exactly....its a standalone fixture. If it were a pool game, you might settle for a draw.
Quite! It's win or lose. So far in the AIs we've won 1/3.
I blame Faz.
TBH- not unhappy with a draw, and indeed the turnaround in the last 20. The individual errors produced in the first 20, plus the continual offsides are just fckin annoying tho.
Very disappointed with the draw.
That said after our stuttering start to the AI's I suppose I should be grateful that we found our way out of the tunnel.
p/d wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:04 pm
Very disappointed with the draw.
That said after our stuttering start to the AI's I suppose I should be grateful that we found our way out of the tunnel.
I'd have settled for a draw beforehand, and after 60 mins. But not after 79
p/d wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:04 pm
Very disappointed with the draw.
That said after our stuttering start to the AI's I suppose I should be grateful that we found our way out of the tunnel.
I'd have settled for a draw beforehand, and after 60 mins. But not after 79
I was confident of a win beforehand, and after 60 actually wanted NZ to put 50 on us. But after 79 I walked over to a secluded spot and had a strong word with myself for using the term 'come on the finishers!!!'.
p/d wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:04 pm
Very disappointed with the draw.
That said after our stuttering start to the AI's I suppose I should be grateful that we found our way out of the tunnel.
I'd have settled for a draw beforehand, and after 60 mins. But not after 79
I was confident of a win beforehand, and after 60 actually wanted NZ to put 50 on us. But after 79 I walked over to a secluded spot and had a strong word with myself for using the term 'come on the finishers!!!'.
Good stuff from Squidge who makes some interesting observations. Maybe England are further along than many of us think?
Very interesting- Jones has been visibly trying new stuff with pods and loose play set up for the last couple of years, and this is another step on - shows why he's sticking with Smith and Faz as well; depends on really high quality quick decision making. In fairness, our attack has made a ton of ground ball in hand this autumn, its just the conversion into tries has beem lacking (because it puts a premium on the right decision being made). What's undermining us is a- penalties, b- decision making in defence, and c- as before, making the right decision as a ball carrier (esp kicking it away) , plus occasional sloppiness in set piece.
(slight quibble with Squidge- to me, that lineout did not look overthrown, the pod were moving beyond the 15m channel, which is what triggered Papalii's run; I don't think the pod could react that quickly to a major overthrow)
Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:40 am
(slight quibble with Squidge- to me, that lineout did not look overthrown, the pod were moving beyond the 15m channel, which is what triggered Papalii's run; I don't think the pod could react that quickly to a major overthrow)
The pod is out of the 15m channel before LCD releases the ball…
Was about to post that myself. Some interesting bits as as ever! I am sceptical it is something that England can just choose to use at will if it takes 70 minutes of fumbling to get it right.
Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:40 am
(slight quibble with Squidge- to me, that lineout did not look overthrown, the pod were moving beyond the 15m channel, which is what triggered Papalii's run; I don't think the pod could react that quickly to a major overthrow)
The pod is out of the 15m channel before LCD releases the ball…
Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:40 am
(slight quibble with Squidge- to me, that lineout did not look overthrown, the pod were moving beyond the 15m channel, which is what triggered Papalii's run; I don't think the pod could react that quickly to a major overthrow)
The pod is out of the 15m channel before LCD releases the ball…
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:45 am
Imo, he’s got the reasons for JVPs two mistakes completely wrong. Couldn’t watch any further.
there is a sensual promise of nudity towards the end.
Given the conditions placed on me since being (wrongly) placed on the sex offenders register, and the difficulty getting off said register as alluded to yesterday, I will now definitely not be able to watch any further than the factually incorrect accusations levelled at JVP (who clearly has the same, incompetent lawyer that I do).
Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:09 am
Was about to post that myself. Some interesting bits as as ever! I am sceptical it is something that England can just choose to use at will if it takes 70 minutes of fumbling to get it right.
I think the point is that it takes time now but the aim is the world cup and then there's almost a year to get it right. Not sure I agree with Squidge that Eddie might hide the attack away now, I think he'll be trying to bring it out and sharpen it at every opportunity.
It was the first time Smith and Farrell seemed to be in sync. It was mainly the forwards making a mess in the 22 as opposed to the backs.
Re the posts about the lineout. It's either overthrown or a really stupid move that NZ have picked out in advance and targeted. Looked to me that it was a sloppy move with Hill ( I think) back pedalling early as it's clear LCD has launched it. Because he's backpedaled he doesn't catch it as clean as he would like when he goes up and the pass down to JVP isn't great. Causes JVP to fumble it slightly before throwing it without looking (rookie error). All the small mistakes just gift the Kiwi openside and easy interception.
As someone else pointed out when I questioned the move before - Papai'ili is a good distance offside by the time the ball actually crosses the 15, though the lineout movement perhaps telegraphed it all a bit too much.
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:45 am
Imo, he’s got the reasons for JVPs two mistakes completely wrong. Couldn’t watch any further.
there is a sensual promise of nudity towards the end.
Is that the Ben Youngs having a shower advert?
FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:13 amNot sure I agree with Squidge that Eddie might hide the attack away now, I think he'll be trying to bring it out and sharpen it at every opportunity.
I hope you're right, but I suspect Squidge might be here - reminiscent of 4 years ago, where we unleashed our RWC attack in what? 1 game?
And then used it to slaughter the ABs in the semi
Last edited by Which Tyler on Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:13 am
Re the posts about the lineout. It's either overthrown or a really stupid move that NZ have picked out in advance and targeted. Looked to me that it was a sloppy move with Hill ( I think) back pedalling early as it's clear LCD has launched it. Because he's backpedaled he doesn't catch it as clean as he would like when he goes up and the pass down to JVP isn't great. Causes JVP to fumble it slightly before throwing it without looking (rookie error). All the small mistakes just gift the Kiwi openside and easy interception.
I basically think it boils down to picking a 21 year old, inexperienced scrum-half. There's nothing inherently wrong with the lineout move, as going over the 15 allows England to advance, as well as getting the ball that bit closer to the middle. Papali'i has actually taken a massive gamble by committing so hard - if Ben Youngs is playing, then he knows to be looking out for that kind of lunge, holds the ball and is instead running at the massive gap that he's just left.
JVP is freshly knitted and has just learned a valuable lesson about not assuming the opposition will cooperate with your training field set piece move - he's smart enough that I suspect it won't ever happen again and I'd far rather he learned that in an AI than in the 6N or the knockouts of the RWC. Same with the ball at the back of the ruck - it wasn't a good refereeing decision, but he's learned not to play it that close and give the ref an excuse.
Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:09 am
Was about to post that myself. Some interesting bits as as ever! I am sceptical it is something that England can just choose to use at will if it takes 70 minutes of fumbling to get it right.
Re the posts about the lineout. It's either overthrown or a really stupid move
The back of the pod (Billy) and the jumper were both over the 15 before LCD threw it- definitely planned as a long throw beyond the 15. That then signals to Papalii he can run up. As it said in the video, JVP should have just held onto it.
FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:13 am
Re the posts about the lineout. It's either overthrown or a really stupid move that NZ have picked out in advance and targeted. Looked to me that it was a sloppy move with Hill ( I think) back pedalling early as it's clear LCD has launched it. Because he's backpedaled he doesn't catch it as clean as he would like when he goes up and the pass down to JVP isn't great. Causes JVP to fumble it slightly before throwing it without looking (rookie error). All the small mistakes just gift the Kiwi openside and easy interception.
I basically think it boils down to picking a 21 year old, inexperienced scrum-half. There's nothing inherently wrong with the lineout move, as going over the 15 allows England to advance, as well as getting the ball that bit closer to the middle. Papali'i has actually taken a massive gamble by committing so hard - if Ben Youngs is playing, then he knows to be looking out for that kind of lunge, holds the ball and is instead running at the massive gap that he's just left.
JVP is freshly knitted and has just learned a valuable lesson about not assuming the opposition will cooperate with your training field set piece move - he's smart enough that I suspect it won't ever happen again and I'd far rather he learned that in an AI than in the 6N or the knockouts of the RWC. Same with the ball at the back of the ruck - it wasn't a good refereeing decision, but he's learned not to play it that close and give the ref an excuse.
Puja
If he steps then there's no gap but two NZ forwards. Either NZ knew it was coming or we botched it so bad it was a gimme.
Obviously he shouldn't have thrown it and it's a rookie mistake. As you say, 21 year olds have to learn at some point.
FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:13 am
Re the posts about the lineout. It's either overthrown or a really stupid move that NZ have picked out in advance and targeted. Looked to me that it was a sloppy move with Hill ( I think) back pedalling early as it's clear LCD has launched it. Because he's backpedaled he doesn't catch it as clean as he would like when he goes up and the pass down to JVP isn't great. Causes JVP to fumble it slightly before throwing it without looking (rookie error). All the small mistakes just gift the Kiwi openside and easy interception.
I basically think it boils down to picking a 21 year old, inexperienced scrum-half. There's nothing inherently wrong with the lineout move, as going over the 15 allows England to advance, as well as getting the ball that bit closer to the middle. Papali'i has actually taken a massive gamble by committing so hard - if Ben Youngs is playing, then he knows to be looking out for that kind of lunge, holds the ball and is instead running at the massive gap that he's just left.
JVP is freshly knitted and has just learned a valuable lesson about not assuming the opposition will cooperate with your training field set piece move - he's smart enough that I suspect it won't ever happen again and I'd far rather he learned that in an AI than in the 6N or the knockouts of the RWC. Same with the ball at the back of the ruck - it wasn't a good refereeing decision, but he's learned not to play it that close and give the ref an excuse.
Puja
If he steps then there's no gap but two NZ forwards. Either NZ knew it was coming or we botched it so bad it was a gimme.
Obviously he shouldn't have thrown it and it's a rookie mistake. As you say, 21 year olds have to learn at some point.
NZ had read it I think- they actually put their hooker into the lineout (Smith in the 5M channel) -a different set up and lets papalii stand at first receiver- they'd spotted was was on, compounded by 2/3rds of the pod being beyond 15 before LCD threw. Smart by Papalii- and there wasn't a massive gap, as the NZ rear pod weren't engaged and had filled any gap JVP might have gone for. But he still should have hung onto it.
