Eng U20s 2023

[Which Tyler]

Couldn't have been a more obvious slapping of the jumpers arm's there. Really wonder what the ref and touch judge are looking at?

TJ told the ref, was ignored.

"Don't kick it" kicks it, no whistle.

Different players.
Why on Earth would a SH not be allowed to kick the ball there? Yet every reason in the world that the French spiler is t allowed to kick the ball (forwards) from there

[16th man]

The French clearly better than us, but we've had 2 lineouts 5 metres out that we've overthrown, with tries following not long after. 14 to 28 point swing on the failure of a basic skill.

[FKAS]

Couldn't have been a more obvious slapping of the jumpers arm's there. Really wonder what the ref and touch judge are looking at?

Ref I can understand as it was at the front of the lineout. The assistant has no excuse, that was really poor. Ref has been good, hopefully one we see promoted onto bigger games.

[Mr Mwenda]

Couldn't have been a more obvious slapping of the jumpers arm's there. Really wonder what the ref and touch judge are looking at?

Yeah, a rare time I wish the tmo could pipe up. I'm giving up I think. That yellow killed England.

Some decent players in this batch I think.

[Puja]

Couldn't have been a more obvious slapping of the jumpers arm's there. Really wonder what the ref and touch judge are looking at?

TJ told the ref, was ignored.

"Don't kick it" kicks it, no whistle.

Different players.
Why on Earth would a SH not be allowed to kick the ball there? Yet every reason in the world that the French spiler is t allowed to kick the ball (forwards) from there

I think you're agreeing with each other there. "Don't kick it," was directed to the French player stepping through the ruck, who promptly kicked it out and the ref lets play go on, despite the ball going loose putting our 9 under pressure and making the turnover that the French then scored from. Ref had a poor 5 minutes with that and the slapping of the arm, and it killed any chance we had of a comeback.

Puja

[Which Tyler]

Ah, ok.
I thought that was us kicking away advantage - our fault.
(Think that's a free kick offence, not penalty - wouldn't want to be quoted on that though)

[Which Tyler]

Last pass was in touch first

[Puja]

Couldn't have been a more obvious slapping of the jumpers arm's there. Really wonder what the ref and touch judge are looking at?

Yeah, a rare time I wish the tmo could pipe up. I'm giving up I think. That yellow killed England.

Some decent players in this batch I think.

Bracken, Cleaves, Fasogbon, and CCS all look to the manner born (although the latter really needs to work on his tackling technique, cause he's going to get yellows and reds with a bit less luck), but the player I've been most impressed with has been Chessum. Run his heart out, worked indefatigably, and shown really good skills, as well as strong leadership (even if he did go a bit Farrell with his talk to the ref on occasions).

Puja

[Puja]

Ah, ok.
I thought that was us kicking away advantage - our fault.
(Think that's a free kick offence, not penalty - wouldn't want to be quoted on that though)

No, kicking the ball out of a ruck is a penalty offence - deliberately set as such because it was brought in to avoid dangerous play.

Puja

[FKAS]

Couldn't have been a more obvious slapping of the jumpers arm's there. Really wonder what the ref and touch judge are looking at?

Yeah, a rare time I wish the tmo could pipe up. I'm giving up I think. That yellow killed England.

Some decent players in this batch I think.

Reception here and the YouTube feed dropping in and out mean I had to give before the end. There's definitely some players in there that should be troubling the senior set up in the next few years. Probably the forwards more than the backs though.

[16th man]

Ah, ok.
I thought that was us kicking away advantage - our fault.
(Think that's a free kick offence, not penalty - wouldn't want to be quoted on that though)

No, kicking the ball out of a ruck is a penalty offence - deliberately set as such because it was brought in to avoid dangerous play.

Puja

It wasn't an egregious one, as the rule is there to stop people just sticking a leg through or around a ruck and casually hacking away not caring if you clatter someone in the process, where as this was a guy who'd pushed through and more clumsily knocked it with his feet, but, regardless of that, if you're going to tell someone not to do something as a ref, and they then do it anyway, you look a real fool if you then don't ping it.

[Scrumhead]

Couldn't have been a more obvious slapping of the jumpers arm's there. Really wonder what the ref and touch judge are looking at?

Yeah, a rare time I wish the tmo could pipe up. I'm giving up I think. That yellow killed England.

Some decent players in this batch I think.

Bracken, Cleaves, Fasogbon, and CCS all look to the manner born (although the latter really needs to work on his tackling technique, cause he's going to get yellows and reds with a bit less luck), but the player I've been most impressed with has been Chessum. Run his heart out, worked indefatigably, and shown really good skills, as well as strong leadership (even if he did go a bit Farrell with his talk to the ref on occasions).

Puja

Agreed. I wasn’t that sold on Chessum Jnr before this tournament, but I’m now a convert. I’d be very happy if Itoje was putting in that level of performance for the senior side.

[16th man]

Couldn't have been a more obvious slapping of the jumpers arm's there. Really wonder what the ref and touch judge are looking at?

Yeah, a rare time I wish the tmo could pipe up. I'm giving up I think. That yellow killed England.

Some decent players in this batch I think.

Bracken, Cleaves, Fasogbon, and CCS all look to the manner born (although the latter really needs to work on his tackling technique, cause he's going to get yellows and reds with a bit less luck), but the player I've been most impressed with has been Chessum. Run his heart out, worked indefatigably, and shown really good skills, as well as strong leadership (even if he did go a bit Farrell with his talk to the ref on occasions).

Puja

4 or 5 in any given group is enough to show a healthy return. The trick is actually getting a 2 or 3 of them to go from being outstanding in there age group to being test class and above. I reckon we're still not great at that compared to the ABs.

[16th man]

Yeah, a rare time I wish the tmo could pipe up. I'm giving up I think. That yellow killed England.

Some decent players in this batch I think.

Bracken, Cleaves, Fasogbon, and CCS all look to the manner born (although the latter really needs to work on his tackling technique, cause he's going to get yellows and reds with a bit less luck), but the player I've been most impressed with has been Chessum. Run his heart out, worked indefatigably, and shown really good skills, as well as strong leadership (even if he did go a bit Farrell with his talk to the ref on occasions).

Puja

Agreed. I wasn’t that sold on Chessum Jnr before this tournament, but I’m now a convert. I’d be very happy if Itoje was putting in that level of performance for the senior side.

Different kettle of fish when you're up against the best in the world, rather than just the best who happen to have been born around the same time as you though isn't it?

[Scrumhead]

Fair point, but we can only judge him on what we’ve seen so far. I thought he was very good and outshone the majority of his peers.

I’m not suggesting we fast track him in to the senior side - just acknowledging his promise.

[FKAS]

Fair point, but we can only judge him on what we’ve seen so far. I thought he was very good and outshone the majority of his peers.

I’m not suggesting we fast track him in to the senior side - just acknowledging his promise.

For a big bloke he certainly gets around the park but still does the lineout work that he's there for. Calling for the kick to the corner instead of the easy three and then opting for the CCS move for the try (which he called to himself to deliver the pass) was both ballsy and executed really nicely having picked up where the scrum half was standing. Hopefully he'll be promoted up the Tigers pecking order fairly quickly next season. Green has moved on and Wells is injured and with Carter and Williams only likely to offer superficial competition he should push on and get game time, particularly in the international periods.

I thought the England hooker was good, physical around the park but good at the set piece as well. Be interesting to see how he goes in senior rugby where his size won't give him so much advantage though he coped well against that big French pack.

[Margin_Walker]

Lots of hype about guys like Fasogbon and CCS. Both have a lot going for them could go on to have really good international careers or it may not click. Tightheads especially are difficult to predict a path for. CCS we know can perform in the prem, but back rowers often come and go and he'll need to work on developing his game.

Chessum Jr though is the one for me that looks as close to a sure thing as you can get in terms of being a future international. He's putting the kind of performances in at U20s that Itoje was a decade or so ago. Just looks an all court lock. Big, skilful, athletic and great at the set piece.

[Mellsblue]

He looks good but then a shed load of players look like world beaters at u20 level and never kick on. Just look at the England players in this list:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_R ... f_the_Year

Remember when Noah Cato was virtually unplayable at age grade…

[Margin_Walker]

Sure. Not really with Cato. He never looked like a world beater.

There were plenty of others getting a fair bit of hype and looking very good at the JWC that got nowhere close though. There are a fair few on that list.

I'd put money on Chessum though, in a way I wouldn't on this year's proverbial flash winger or big lump of a prop.

[Mellsblue]

Nine tries in ten games and roundly lauded if I remember correctly but it kind of proves my point: it’s all very subjective and mostly guesswork.

[FKAS]

It should be less like guesswork as time goes on with better development pathways due to increasing professionalism. That being said injuries, mentality and off field distractions are all hard to know as a fan.

[Which Tyler]

I'm not so sure.
I'm far from convinced that the pathways (in fully professional countries) between age-grade and senior are any better now than they were a decade ago.
Rugby's been professional for 28 years now. Yeah, the first decade or so was a mess, and a but longer for these pathways to properly kick in, but... age grade rugby is still a small pond with the odd big fish swimming around. It always will be, because it's the best of a 2-year age-group (at best) who have only just (or usually not-quite-yet) become full time professionals, not the best of a 12+ year ago group who've been full-time professional since they left age-grade.

[fivepointer]

You would hope that 3/4 would make it to full international and that a further 10 would be Prem players. Thats probably the average but age grade rugby can be very deceptive. There are plenty of examples of bright lights at 18/19/20 who dont get a spot in a Prem side. You might get an exceptional year but there are many variables in a player making it through to 50 cap international.

Just looked at the 2022 squad. It included Fin Smith, Henry Arundell, Will Joseph and Seb Atkinson. There's unfulfilled promise in Fin Baxter, Emeka Ilione, Ewan Richards, Tom Litchfield and Olly Hartley. But for some of those in the squad playing U20s is going to be their career highlight.

[Scrumhead]

He looks good but then a shed load of players look like world beaters at u20 level and never kick on. Just look at the England players in this list:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_R ... f_the_Year

Remember when Noah Cato was virtually unplayable at age grade…

I don’t think anyone is saying he looks like a ‘world beater’ though? From what I’m reading, the general consensus is that he had an impressive tournament and looks like a future England lock. I agree with that.

As far as I can see, no-one’s saying he should be player of the tournament or overly hyping him up.

[Mellsblue]

He looks good but then a shed load of players look like world beaters at u20 level and never kick on. Just look at the England players in this list:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_R ... f_the_Year

Remember when Noah Cato was virtually unplayable at age grade…

I don’t think anyone is saying he looks like a ‘world beater’ though? From what I’m reading, the general consensus is that he had an impressive tournament and looks like a future England lock. I agree with that.

As far as I can see, no-one’s saying he should be player of the tournament or overly hyping him up.

I wasn’t saying anyone did say he was a world beater. I’m just saying that even being in the top 5 in the tournament doesn’t guarantee success, when you look at that list.