RugbyRebels

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:59 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:51 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 12:55 pm

Pretty much reinforces the point that Eddie did next to nothing to bring through the next set of players and develop them for England after the last world cup.

does it? or as before...where is this mystery set of high performers? iirc, Eddie ditched a fair few faces. Who then got recalled, and retained by Slightly Backward.

Would Stiffy Bangjob be looking to bring back Cole and Marler if Jones had successfully brought through a stable of props? I mean realistically we have four capped tightheads to choose from and two of those are from Leicester where he had a hand in rejuvenating Cole and developing Heyes.

Billy V was brought back into the fold by Jones before. Who else we looking at, Daly?

I don't think Bigwedge is bringing in many experienced options that didn't t play for England in the last 12 months of Eddie's reign anyway.

It's the problem so close to the world cup. You need some experience in the squad.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2023 9:34 am

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2023 9:31 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2023 9:14 am
Who are these stable of EQ props he should’ve brought through?

I mean that is the job of the England coach building for a world cup, find and develop talent.

Schonert is EQ, Heyes has only 7 caps, Paul Hill has 8 caps and one in the last four or five years. I know Painter and Street haven't progressed as we'd have liked out of under 20s which didn't help.

Loosehead we've seen Ellis come into his own which is good though helped by Marler retiring, unretiring and dumb suspensions. Rodd's caps came during an injury hit spell though at least we used a young player there.

It will have to be an area for SB to work on post world cup, the lack of depth being generated.

Paul Hill?!?!?!? Your post has rather proved Banquo’s point.

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2023 9:36 am

fivepointer wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2023 9:09 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2023 7:58 am How much of the unbeaten initial run from 2016 was down to Jones's coaching? At the time I remember many on here talking about sneaking wins against the run of play, luck etc. Were we good or lucky? Was the run the result of changes by Jones or the culmination of ground work by his predecessor? Were we truly awful at the RWC 2015 and marvellous at 2019? How narrow was the gap in terms of the results achieved?

Now, with hindsight, looking at Jones's and Lancaster's performaces since moving on from England who would do a better job tomorrow?

In all the various considerations I only believe in one for certain. England should have broken the bank to get Sean Edwards on board at some point.

You dont win 20 games on the spin with luck alone. Jones did a first rate job in the first 4 years of his tenure. Post 2019 WC the wheels came off badly but there's no denying we played well and achieved significant results under him in the first half of his appointment.

and as I pointed out, that's a pretty unique coaching record for england since 2003. Personally I think our system is fckd for intl purposes- we get a few decent players occasionally through luck it appears.

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2023 9:51 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2023 9:34 am

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2023 9:31 am

I mean that is the job of the England coach building for a world cup, find and develop talent.

Schonert is EQ, Heyes has only 7 caps, Paul Hill has 8 caps and one in the last four or five years. I know Painter and Street haven't progressed as we'd have liked out of under 20s which didn't help.

Loosehead we've seen Ellis come into his own which is good though helped by Marler retiring, unretiring and dumb suspensions. Rodd's caps came during an injury hit spell though at least we used a young player there.

It will have to be an area for SB to work on post world cup, the lack of depth being generated.

Paul Hill?!?!?!? Your post has rather proved Banquo’s point.

At 28 he's closing in on 200 games for Saints. Still the most mobile tighthead in the league. Lack of quality scrum coaching has been his downfall. Probably should have left Saints to move his game on. Untapped development there.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2023 10:04 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2023 9:36 am

fivepointer wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2023 9:09 am

You dont win 20 games on the spin with luck alone. Jones did a first rate job in the first 4 years of his tenure. Post 2019 WC the wheels came off badly but there's no denying we played well and achieved significant results under him in the first half of his appointment.

and as I pointed out, that's a pretty unique coaching record for england since 2003. Personally I think our system is fckd for intl purposes- we get a few decent players occasionally through luck it appears.

What do you mean by system, Tim? Are you referring to the whole structure - clubs, leagues, junior development, England coach appointment procedure, RFU governing etc.?

jngf wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2023 9:29 am

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2023 7:45 am Stop appointing ex forwards as coaches. Blinkered lambs

Robinson, Johnson, Lancaster , Eddie and Sunshine Boulevard - all forwards though none of them exactly rocket scientists ( though to be fair Robinson was a maths teacher and MJ and SB are statos )

jngf wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:56 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:51 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 12:55 pm

Pretty much reinforces the point that Eddie did next to nothing to bring through the next set of players and develop them for England after the last world cup.

does it? or as before...where is this mystery set of high performers? iirc, Eddie ditched a fair few faces. Who then got recalled, and retained by Slightly Backward.

Frankly England have been mostly meh to crap since 2003, bar 2016-2019 when we were mostly pretty good. But in that whole period we havent consistently produced really top notch players imo. Is it a succession of crap coaches, or something systemic? Tho we certainly have had apparently crap coaches (some of whom have turned out ok with better players/regimes). Food for thought.

Would be refreshing to have a former back rather than forward be the next England head coach, all things equal I think they tend to take a more cerebral and strategic approach to the game.

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2023 1:49 pm a propos of irrelevent to thread, Jones has dropped Hooper and Cooper from the wobblies RWC squad

Lizard wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2023 10:30 am Slipper = 20% of caps in Australia RWC squad

45% of squad have 0-5 caps

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2023 1:49 pm a propos of irrelevent to thread, Jones has dropped Hooper and Cooper from the wobblies RWC squad

Oakboy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:25 am Sad for JVP. Will Mitchell jump into the starting shirt? It's odd either way.

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:33 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:25 am Sad for JVP. Will Mitchell jump into the starting shirt? It's odd either way.

I don't think starting shirt - I do rate Youngs higher than most on here, as he is generally good for 9 out of every 10 minutes he's on a pitch - but I think he's got a good claim to the 21 shirt. If we're 6 points down vs Argentina with 15 to go, then being able to bring Mitchell and Smith off the bench is a hell of a weapon.

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:33 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:25 am Sad for JVP. Will Mitchell jump into the starting shirt? It's odd either way.

I don't think starting shirt - I do rate Youngs higher than most on here, as he is generally good for 9 out of every 10 minutes he's on a pitch - but I think he's got a good claim to the 21 shirt. If we're 6 points down vs Argentina with 15 to go, then being able to bring Mitchell and Smith off the bench is a hell of a weapon.

Puja

p/d wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:46 am

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:33 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:25 am Sad for JVP. Will Mitchell jump into the starting shirt? It's odd either way.

I don't think starting shirt - I do rate Youngs higher than most on here, as he is generally good for 9 out of every 10 minutes he's on a pitch - but I think he's got a good claim to the 21 shirt. If we're 6 points down vs Argentina with 15 to go, then being able to bring Mitchell and Smith off the bench is a hell of a weapon.

Puja

Then the press, SCW & Oakboy will be highlighting what Farrell brings that Ford lacks

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:37 am Obvs not England squad or a team we’re likely to play but big news for the tournament:

francoisfou wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:58 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:37 am Obvs not England squad or a team we’re likely to play but big news for the tournament:

Feckin’ warm up matches. We’ll be deprived of watching one of the world’s best.

p/d wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:46 am

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:33 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:25 am Sad for JVP. Will Mitchell jump into the starting shirt? It's odd either way.

I don't think starting shirt - I do rate Youngs higher than most on here, as he is generally good for 9 out of every 10 minutes he's on a pitch - but I think he's got a good claim to the 21 shirt. If we're 6 points down vs Argentina with 15 to go, then being able to bring Mitchell and Smith off the bench is a hell of a weapon.

Puja

Then the press, SCW & Oakboy will be highlighting what Farrell brings that Ford lacks

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 11:45 am

francoisfou wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:58 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:37 am Obvs not England squad or a team we’re likely to play but big news for the tournament:

Feckin’ warm up matches. We’ll be deprived of watching one of the world’s best.

I think France are better with Jalibert tbh

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 12:14 pm I think Jalibert is the better player but the Toulouse 9-10 combo is probs more important.