Bonkers brilliance

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rowan
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Re: Bonkers brilliance

Post by rowan »

Interesting going back and looking at some of the headlines now :o

Anti-Putin Russian journalist Arkady Babchenko shot dead in Ukraine capital :!:

A prominent Russian journalist known for his sharp criticism of Vladimir Putin has been murdered in the Ukrainian capital.

Arkady Babchenko, 41, was found by his wife in a pool of blood at their Kiev apartment on Tuesday evening. He had been shot in the back.

He died in the ambulance on the way to hospital, Ukrainian police said. :cry:

Babchenko, who became one of Russia's most famous war correspondents after writing a memoir of his service as a conscript and later professional solider in the Chechen wars, went into exile in 2017 saying he had received multiple threats to himself and his family. :evil:

He had emerged as a bitter online critic of the Putin government in recent years, posting regular blogs attacking the Kremlin on his Facebook page. . . The day before his death, Babchenko was worried about Putin & Kadyrov. This is allegedly the 2014 post he referenced in his tweet & then deleted. In it, he says one of Putin's election representatives had asked Kadyrov to "invite me to tea," a veiled threat :shock: .

He became the focus of what he called a particular vicious campaign of "political intimidation" after he wrote on Facebook that he had "neither sympathy or pity" for dozens of members of a Russian army choir who died in an air crash en route to Syria in 2016. :lol:

Several pro-Kremlin politicians made public calls for him to be publicly punished, including by being stripped of citizenship, deported, or having his property confiscated. :x

"It was so personal, so scary, that I was forced to flee," he wrote after he had left Russia. :?

He lived in Prague and Israel before moving to Kiev last summer.

Babchenko's life was defined by his work as a war correspondent to the last.
;)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/0 ... e-capital/

Russia rejects claim it was behind dissident journalist’s killing

Ukraine accuses Moscow of shooting dead Putin critic Arkady Babchenko


The Russian foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, has rejected a Ukrainian allegation that Moscow was behind the murder of a dissident Russian journalist in Kiev, calling it part of an anti-Russian campaign, according to Moscow media reports.

Arkady Babchenko, a critic of President Vladimir Putin :shock: , was shot dead in Ukraine on Tuesday, where he had fled into exile after a series of threats. Police in Kiev said the high-profile murder may have been linked to his reporting. :?

Lavrov said it was “very sad” that Moscow has been accused of the murder, according to Agence France-Presse.

The Ukrainian prime minister, Volodymyr Groysman, said in a social media posting late on Tuesday he was convinced that what he called “the Russian totalitarian machine” had not forgiven Babchenko for what Groysman called his honesty. :evil:

Babchenko, a veteran Russian war correspondent, was shot three times in the back as he left his apartment to buy bread. He was found bleeding by his wife. Babchenko, 41, died in the ambulance to the hospital, a government official said. :cry:



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... -babchenko
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, why not in between?
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morepork
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Re: Bonkers brilliance

Post by morepork »

"Spare me the arrogant opening comments, because I am far more properly informed on this issue than you"


Classic.
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SerjeantWildgoose
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Re: Bonkers brilliance

Post by SerjeantWildgoose »

rowan wrote:Your comments on the consequences of US invasions are akin to genocide denial. The West aided and abetted Saddam in the worst of his crimes, supplying the chemical weapons he used against the Iranians and Kurds, and it also backed Gaddafi when it suited them. But even that pair were smallfry compared with the rapacious, genocidal antics of America and Britain around the world. & your brainwashed parroting of the warmongering media's propaganda on Assad smacks of Islamophobia. If it's a Middle Eastern leader must be evil, wot, old boy! :evil:
My comments are neither akin to, nor actually of a nature that denies any genocide since, simply put, no genocide has occurred other than in the very narrow confines of your own warped interpretation.

Tell me Rowan, who do you hope to convince with your pathetic anti-crusade on this forum. The majority of those who post here are Brits and the targets of much of your bile. You also recently took a hefty pop at the ANZACs, possibly the next largest contingent and one from which you claim to have spawned. There are too few of us among the others, but you have made some pretty deep inroads into dousing us with your fantastic shyte.

I shall, hereafter, limit my responses to you to the monosyllabic.
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rowan
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Re: Bonkers brilliance

Post by rowan »

I'm trying to talk about this bizarre episode. It is you who zoomed in with a bunch of silly ad hominems and prejudice-loaded, baseless accusations against other nations' leaders, along with your denials of the American-led/UK supported war crimes, including numerous of genocidal proportions. Just keeping talking about wars of bygone centuries and convincing yourself you saved the world, old boy. That the reality is entirely the opposite will probably never even occur to you.
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Coco
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Re: Bonkers brilliance

Post by Coco »

I'm wondering if we all just agree with Rowan after each of his anti-__________ (fill in the blank) speeches, if it might just give him nothing else to post or nothing to argue about.

I'm going to test it out. Wish me luck.
It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.

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Coco
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Re: Bonkers brilliance

Post by Coco »

rowan wrote:Hate to break it to you, Stones of Cowardice, but that's how democracy works. It's far from a perfect system, but the majority hold the power. Crimean Tatars are about 12% of the population, which is roughly equivalent to Maori in New Zealand and African-Americans in the US, but I haven't seen you ranting and raving about how those particular minorities are getting screwed over by this dastardly democratic (ie majority rule) political system.
Are you implying that the USA is a majority rule democratic political system?
It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.

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Donny osmond
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Re: RE: Re: Bonkers brilliance

Post by Donny osmond »

Or possibly just dont respond? I have him on ignore and it has hugely improved my RR experience. Try that.
Coco wrote:I'm wondering if we all just agree with Rowan after each of his anti-__________ (fill in the blank) speeches, if it might just give him nothing else to post or nothing to argue about.

I'm going to test it out. Wish me luck.
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It was so much easier to blame Them. It was bleakly depressing to think They were Us. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.
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Re: Bonkers brilliance

Post by Digby »

It'd improve the board still further if he was permanently banned or simply buggered off
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rowan
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Re: Bonkers brilliance

Post by rowan »

Now that was bonkers, this is brilliant:

What if Babchenko had decided to stay “dead”?

If he hadn’t turned up alive, Arkady dead would have become the thing most people called “truth.” Like “United 93”, and similar collective myths, the legend of his martyrdom would have taken on all the trappings of solid reality. No one – none of us – would think to question it. And anyone who did would be dismissed as a lunatic.

The most important and abiding point about the non-death of Arkady Babchenko, beyond all the spin and damage control and narrative-boosting we are inevitably going to see over the next days and weeks, is that, at its deepest level, consensual reality is a fragile thing that can very easily have nothing to do with truth or fact or actual reality. The point is that the people who are paid to fact check official narratives didn’t do it, and would never have done it. They were simply sold a line and bought it, uninterrogated, uninvestigated, unwrapped.

And this is what they do every day. With every item of “news” they lay before us.

Look at the illusion of depth and veracity they gave this lie, simply by reporting it. See how easily they were fooled and went on to fool us. See how little it occurred to any of us, even those who make a habit of interrogating narratives, to ask whether or not it really happened.

Think about how easily that basic question was trampled and crushed into oblivion. How effortlessly a few public statements and a very very questionable pic became the collective “truth” for all of us. Look at how the debate was already being positioned. How the issue was going to be “who did it?” not “was it even done?”

The real problem this highlights is not just that the derogation of journalistic duty to fact-check and second-source is now the norm. We already know this. It’s been too apparent for too long.

The real problem is that this derogation helps to create the reality we all live in. Even those of us who deplore it. If for whatever reason Arkady had sloped off to Hawaii in a bad wig, today we would all be debating who may have killed him. Unwittingly hostage to a flimsy lie.

This is an uncomfortable truth we need to recognise. Because it’s often the questions that seem most unnecessary, absurd, offensive, even insane that actually most need to be asked.

We are already being dissuaded from learning this most valuable lesson. The journos who were so recently burned are already backstopping against it. They aren’t focusing on why the lie happened, they are focusing on how “the enemy” (the Russians, the alt-media, the whole evil circus of “other”) are “exploiting” it. How they will now have an “excuse” to suggest any future such deaths might also be fake.

The drive is to make it ridiculous to learn from experience or to cite precedence. We are already being persuaded only idiots would think future deaths might be fake based on the fact past deaths were fake.

No matter how much data there might be for fakery we must never accept it as a legitimate possibility. No matter how many Doumas may happen, no matter how many Babchenkos come back from the dead, no matter how many incidents of fakery are outed, or “explained” in unsatisfactory terms, we must never learn from experience. We can discuss why the victims of the latest atrocity died, but not the possibility they might not have died at all?


https://off-guardian.org/2018/05/31/wha ... stay-dead/
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Buggaluggs
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Re: Bonkers brilliance

Post by Buggaluggs »

United 93 'myth' ??
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Coco
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Re: Bonkers brilliance

Post by Coco »

You know, I heard Elvis was still alive..
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Digby
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Re: Bonkers brilliance

Post by Digby »

Hardly a surprise when the US health system has such a focus on keeping old, fat, rich, white Americans alive
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rowan
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Re: Bonkers brilliance

Post by rowan »

Buggaluggs wrote:United 93 'myth' ??
Shot down over an unpopulated region of Pennsylvania, apparently. Rumsfield let it slip in one of his speeches. Makes sense, since it was already known the Twin Towers had been hit by then, and Flight 93 was well off course. That's precisely what the military would be required to do.
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J Dory
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Re: Bonkers brilliance

Post by J Dory »

rowan wrote:Now that was bonkers, this is brilliant:

What if Babchenko had decided to stay “dead”?

If he hadn’t turned up alive, Arkady dead would have become the thing most people called “truth.” Like “United 93”, and similar collective myths, the legend of his martyrdom would have taken on all the trappings of solid reality. No one – none of us – would think to question it. And anyone who did would be dismissed as a lunatic.

The most important and abiding point about the non-death of Arkady Babchenko, beyond all the spin and damage control and narrative-boosting we are inevitably going to see over the next days and weeks, is that, at its deepest level, consensual reality is a fragile thing that can very easily have nothing to do with truth or fact or actual reality. The point is that the people who are paid to fact check official narratives didn’t do it, and would never have done it. They were simply sold a line and bought it, uninterrogated, uninvestigated, unwrapped.

And this is what they do every day. With every item of “news” they lay before us.

Look at the illusion of depth and veracity they gave this lie, simply by reporting it. See how easily they were fooled and went on to fool us. See how little it occurred to any of us, even those who make a habit of interrogating narratives, to ask whether or not it really happened.

Think about how easily that basic question was trampled and crushed into oblivion. How effortlessly a few public statements and a very very questionable pic became the collective “truth” for all of us. Look at how the debate was already being positioned. How the issue was going to be “who did it?” not “was it even done?”

The real problem this highlights is not just that the derogation of journalistic duty to fact-check and second-source is now the norm. We already know this. It’s been too apparent for too long.

The real problem is that this derogation helps to create the reality we all live in. Even those of us who deplore it. If for whatever reason Arkady had sloped off to Hawaii in a bad wig, today we would all be debating who may have killed him. Unwittingly hostage to a flimsy lie.

This is an uncomfortable truth we need to recognise. Because it’s often the questions that seem most unnecessary, absurd, offensive, even insane that actually most need to be asked.

We are already being dissuaded from learning this most valuable lesson. The journos who were so recently burned are already backstopping against it. They aren’t focusing on why the lie happened, they are focusing on how “the enemy” (the Russians, the alt-media, the whole evil circus of “other”) are “exploiting” it. How they will now have an “excuse” to suggest any future such deaths might also be fake.

The drive is to make it ridiculous to learn from experience or to cite precedence. We are already being persuaded only idiots would think future deaths might be fake based on the fact past deaths were fake.

No matter how much data there might be for fakery we must never accept it as a legitimate possibility. No matter how many Doumas may happen, no matter how many Babchenkos come back from the dead, no matter how many incidents of fakery are outed, or “explained” in unsatisfactory terms, we must never learn from experience. We can discuss why the victims of the latest atrocity died, but not the possibility they might not have died at all?


https://off-guardian.org/2018/05/31/wha ... stay-dead/
Good article.
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rowan
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Re: Bonkers brilliance

Post by rowan »

Yes, they do some excellent work. Better than the Guardian itself ;) This one's a thorough backgrounder on Wahabbism: https://off-guardian.org/2018/05/30/sau ... perialism/

The American Conservative is another site I've being paying a bit of attention to lately. http://www.theamericanconservative.com/ ... ump-style/
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Re: Bonkers brilliance

Post by Digby »

J Dory wrote:
Good article.
Are you drunk, on drugs, or both?
J Dory
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Re: Bonkers brilliance

Post by J Dory »

Digby wrote:
J Dory wrote:
Good article.
Are you drunk, on drugs, or both?
Neither, it's a fair point IMO. If he hadn't turned up alive, the narrative being discussed would have been whodunnit, with everyone in the west pointing fingers at Russia, it already was. People immediately accepted the media reported events. We do it all the time.
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rowan
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Re: Bonkers brilliance

Post by rowan »

Not surprising the Ukranians were behind the hoax, as it bore a striking resemblance to the very real assassination of Ukrania Pravda editor Georgiy Gongadze in 2000. His decapitated corpse was found in a forest near Kiev after he'd gone out to buy cat food. Fingers were pointed in all directions before a tape recording emerged of Ukranian president Leonid Kuchma discussing how to 'get rid of him' - including the possibility of hiring gangsters. Despite this, Kuchma remained active in politics for another decade as charges were not brought against him until 2011, and then they were promptly dropped on the basis that the recording of him planning to dispose of Gongadze on the eve of the journalist's murder was not admissible as evidence.
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Coco
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Re: Bonkers brilliance

Post by Coco »

Digby wrote:Hardly a surprise when the US health system has such a focus on keeping old, fat, rich, white Americans alive
As opposed to taking terminal babies off life support and not allowing parents to take them home to either pass peacefully, or try anything within their power to help their baby?
It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.

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WaspInWales
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Re: Bonkers brilliance

Post by WaspInWales »

Coco wrote:
Digby wrote:Hardly a surprise when the US health system has such a focus on keeping old, fat, rich, white Americans alive
As opposed to taking terminal babies off life support and not allowing parents to take them home to either pass peacefully, or try anything within their power to help their baby?
Terminal is usually terminal.

I'm sure there are instances of US courts determining the fates of terminally ill patients in the US. A cursory Google search finds the case of Israel Stinson.

It seems the courts decided against the parents wishes and before appeals could be lodged, the child's life support was removed.

At least in cases in the UK, due process and the right to appeal against legal decisions seems to carry quite a bit of weight. I take it your comment referred to Alfie Evans?
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Mellsblue
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Re: Bonkers brilliance

Post by Mellsblue »

Coco wrote:
Digby wrote:Hardly a surprise when the US health system has such a focus on keeping old, fat, rich, white Americans alive
As opposed to taking terminal babies off life support and not allowing parents to take them home to either pass peacefully, or try anything within their power to help their baby?
Other than the first nine words - which is a universal truth - there’s not a single truth in that. I can see why you’d react to Diggers WUM, though. Which is also not particularly near to the truth.
Digby
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Re: Bonkers brilliance

Post by Digby »

Coco wrote:
Digby wrote:Hardly a surprise when the US health system has such a focus on keeping old, fat, rich, white Americans alive
As opposed to taking terminal babies off life support and not allowing parents to take them home to either pass peacefully, or try anything within their power to help their baby?
Damn straight, that the parents wanted money wasted on their kid that could have been usefully spent elsewhere is a sad story but nothing more.
Digby
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Re: Bonkers brilliance

Post by Digby »

Mellsblue wrote:
Coco wrote:
Digby wrote:Hardly a surprise when the US health system has such a focus on keeping old, fat, rich, white Americans alive
As opposed to taking terminal babies off life support and not allowing parents to take them home to either pass peacefully, or try anything within their power to help their baby?
Other than the first nine words - which is a universal truth - there’s not a single truth in that. I can see why you’d react to Diggers WUM, though. Which is also not particularly near to the truth.
I hadn't really thought it was a wum, not least as I don't know if Coco is old, fat, rich, white or American, at an individual level I also wouldn't care
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SerjeantWildgoose
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Re: Bonkers brilliance

Post by SerjeantWildgoose »

Digby wrote:
Coco wrote:
Digby wrote:Hardly a surprise when the US health system has such a focus on keeping old, fat, rich, white Americans alive
As opposed to taking terminal babies off life support and not allowing parents to take them home to either pass peacefully, or try anything within their power to help their baby?
Damn straight, that the parents wanted money wasted on their kid that could have been usefully spent elsewhere is a sad story but nothing more.
I know you're not supposed to go back to a firework when its been lit, but feck me Diggers, there's no need to give it a blast with the flame-thrower!

I think Mr and Mrs terminal-baby were blinded by the absolutely ludicrous assumption that the terminal-baby was theirs and that sort of loving ownership doesn't always have the capacity to see through the fog of rationality; the money issue would never have entered their conscious and nor should it.

What also failed to break through their rational grief but irrational love, despite the abysmal attempts at religious and commercial interference, was that the UK's medical and legal experts knew what they were talking about and had at the very centre of their decision making the best interests of a hopelessly poorly child who might well have been suffering untold agonies.

I have a vision of Coco that I resort to on cold dark mornings that is neither old, fat, white or American - I think she might be Moroccan.
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morepork
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Re: Bonkers brilliance

Post by morepork »

Did RRs just get "Fox Newsed"?

Sort it out FFS.
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