England v Japan

[FKAS]

If you're an English winger in the premiership other than Nowell or May, and watched last week's game, what are you thinking right now?

Because if I was one I'd be having a chat with my agent about a couple of seasons in France or Japan, because if he isn't dropping Nowell after that showing, then there's absolutely no reason to be sticking around hoping for a world cup spot.

Again - why leave England at the same time as the coach you don't agree with, because you don't agree with him?
Surely you want to be stating your case to the new guy, not sulking elsewhere whilst he's making his decisions and putting his squad together.

Yup move overseas whilst the new coach beds in his preferred options in a position which due to age will require a complete overhaul. May and Nowell will be out the picture and I wouldn't be surprised if Anthony Watson doesn't head abroad post world cup either.

Freeman, Arundell and Cokanasiga will all be prime consideration but none have really had chance to nail a spot down yet.

[TheNomad]

I want England to win. I'd like them to prove me wrong. But if it's 65 mins in, we've been dire, and Japan are still in the game, I might start willing for a loss just so we fucking learn and change tack.

100% with you. This is madness. I'm actually NOT looking forward to a World Cup. Imagine that? People might be lucky enough to enjoy 15 to 20 in their life times, and I'm genuinely not looking forward to one

Eddie needs to go. He's a total prat

[Oakboy]

If you're an English winger in the premiership other than Nowell or May, and watched last week's game, what are you thinking right now?

Because if I was one I'd be having a chat with my agent about a couple of seasons in France or Japan, because if he isn't dropping Nowell after that showing, then there's absolutely no reason to be sticking around hoping for a world cup spot.

Again - why leave England at the same time as the coach you don't agree with, because you don't agree with him?
Surely you want to be stating your case to the new guy, not sulking elsewhere whilst he's making his decisions and putting his squad together.

WT, stop mentioning a new guy. You are getting me over-excited.

[Oakboy]

I want England to win. I'd like them to prove me wrong. But if it's 65 mins in, we've been dire, and Japan are still in the game, I might start willing for a loss just so we fucking learn and change tack.

100% with you. This is madness. I'm actually NOT looking forward to a World Cup. Imagine that? People might be lucky enough to enjoy 15 to 20 in their life times, and I'm genuinely not looking forward to one

Eddie needs to go. He's a total prat

Even though I've been spouting this message for years a tiny part of me still can't believe that the RFU can re-appoint somebody this bad. There must be some master-plan about to surface. Surely, nobody can lose so many crunch games without having a clue how to improve? The snag is that if there's no dream of a change in fortune there's no point in watching and I can't imagine life without England rugby.

[Stom]

God, after this world cup, we're going to need a revolution like the French had. We just keep picking the same players time and again, and no youngsters are having a chance. Not good enough.

I hope it goes like the French one, though...

[Oakboy]

God, after this world cup, we're going to need a revolution like the French had. We just keep picking the same players time and again, and no youngsters are having a chance. Not good enough.

I hope it goes like the French one, though...

Starting by appointing Edwards would not be a bad idea.

[Freddo]

If Guy Porter is the answer then you're asking the wrong question!

Unlike the attack, which won't be asking any questions



On the selection itself - not much to add really; Itoje at 6 just doesn't convince - I'm sure he could, but he'd need an offseason training differently, and a full season playing 6 week-in, week-out.
Simmonds just doesn't convinve as an international player (or even as a #8 outside of a back 5 specifically set up around him)
No JWillis is just insanity.

Smith Farrell axis doesn't work; but there's no really obvious alternative - even if we all have our favourites.

Coka carrying the can for playing well, scoring a try, and failing to pull Nowell's arse out of the fire, twice. No room for any back3 players on the bench.

I think I may have reached my limit on Eddie

10.Smith/Farrell 12. Manu 13. Slade (or Marchant who should be in the squad)?

I have definitely reached my limit with Eddie. I know the RFU will not get rid so close to the World Cup but surely they can see we don't have a chance on current form? The whole 'we'll be shit until the World Cup' excuse can't be fooling anybody right now.

Quick question for anyone but how long did it take for France, Ireland and South Africa to start showing form after they brought in Galthie, Farrell and Erasmus? Is it doable with England?

[Banquo]

I want England to win. I'd like them to prove me wrong. But if it's 65 mins in, we've been dire, and Japan are still in the game, I might start willing for a loss just so we fucking learn and change tack.

100% with you. This is madness. I'm actually NOT looking forward to a World Cup. Imagine that? People might be lucky enough to enjoy 15 to 20 in their life times, and I'm genuinely not looking forward to one

Eddie needs to go. He's a total prat

Even though I've been spouting this message for years a tiny part of me still can't believe that the RFU can re-appoint somebody this bad. There must be some master-plan about to surface. Surely, nobody can lose so many crunch games without having a clue how to improve? The snag is that if there's no dream of a change in fortune there's no point in watching and I can't imagine life without England rugby.

iirc we were pretty rank in the run up to 2019 RWC so there is that straw to cling to.

He does look increasingly like he doesn't know what to do in the backs tho- part of that, in fairness, is the paucity of talent in midfield. But his wing selection is looking random.

[Banquo]

God, after this world cup, we're going to need a revolution like the French had. We just keep picking the same players time and again, and no youngsters are having a chance. Not good enough.

I hope it goes like the French one, though...

?? JVP, Arundell, Freeman, Coles, Heyes, Rodd, Steward, Chessum......in the last year or so...just off the top of my head.

[Oakboy]

God, after this world cup, we're going to need a revolution like the French had. We just keep picking the same players time and again, and no youngsters are having a chance. Not good enough.

I hope it goes like the French one, though...

?? JVP, Arundell, Freeman, Coles, Heyes, Rodd, Steward, Chessum......in the last year or so...just off the top of my head.

So, in terms of coming in, getting a decent run of games and making it, is it just Steward? Just asking.

Is Smith a success? Is it too early to say that JVP might be?

What is a decent chance anyway? Maybe 400 minutes minimum?

[Peej]

That stat about players with less than 10 caps under Jones was revealing. 147 on less than 10 versus 47 that have more than 10. And 83 players of 194 selected in camps never capped.

[fivepointer]

Jones has capped a lot of players.
Problem is he's wasted a lot of caps on players he should have replaced and players who werent really up to it. The number of players who have got a handful of caps under Jones is pretty high.
Selection isnt a science but Jones has made some bad calls in giving caps and not giving caps to players who did deserve an opportunity.

[Banquo]

God, after this world cup, we're going to need a revolution like the French had. We just keep picking the same players time and again, and no youngsters are having a chance. Not good enough.

I hope it goes like the French one, though...

?? JVP, Arundell, Freeman, Coles, Heyes, Rodd, Steward, Chessum......in the last year or so...just off the top of my head.

So, in terms of coming in, getting a decent run of games and making it, is it just Steward? Just asking.

Is Smith a success? Is it too early to say that JVP might be?

What is a decent chance anyway? Maybe 400 minutes minimum?

He said 'having a chance' btw. Not ..decent.

JVP, Steward, Chessum (crocked) Freeman (was crocked) will be in; I'd think Arundell (crocked), Coles (based on last week), Heyes (tho he struggled I think) and Rodd will get a sniff. That's quite a lot of new young players tbh (and Porter now I think of it)

I don't think Smith has much of chance with what he has round him and his game, unless he plays more conventionally.

No point in putting an arbitrary number on it- Steward was instantly to the manner born, Chessum, Freeman, JVP, Coles similarly tbh. Others just looked immediately out of their depth...Porter, Malins (:) IMO)....

[Banquo]

Jones has capped a lot of players.
Problem is he's wasted a lot of caps on players he should have replaced and players who werent really up to it. The number of players who have got a handful of caps under Jones is pretty high.
Selection isnt a science but Jones has made some bad calls in giving caps and not giving caps to players who did deserve an opportunity.

Not sure its quite as extreme (wasted A LOT of caps- there are a lot of games now) as that, but the complaint was he doesn't try out young/new players, he certainly does. And he also does change his mind sometimes.

Which players are you calling out needed replacing, and when, out of interest? I'd have binned Youngs a few times (but then he produces a great performance ), Nowell, Farrell.

[Mellsblue]

Rodd, Steward

How do I feel about Eddie’s selection decisions?
I don’t want to talk about it, how Eddie broke my heart

[Banquo]

Rodd, Steward

How do I feel about Eddie’s selection decisions?
I don’t want to talk about it, how Eddie broke my heart

You wear it well

[fivepointer]

Jones has capped a lot of players.
Problem is he's wasted a lot of caps on players he should have replaced and players who werent really up to it. The number of players who have got a handful of caps under Jones is pretty high.
Selection isnt a science but Jones has made some bad calls in giving caps and not giving caps to players who did deserve an opportunity.

Not sure its quite as extreme (wasted A LOT of caps- there are a lot of games now) as that, but the complaint was he doesn't try out young/new players, he certainly does. And he also does change his mind sometimes.

Which players are you calling out needed replacing, and when, out of interest? I'd have binned Youngs a few times (but then he produces a great performance ), Nowell, Farrell.

Hartley, Brown and Youngs are the ones that spring to mind. I think Farrell and Billy V's poor form hasnt resulted in being stood down when they should have. Capping Ewels has largely been a waste of time and i was never sure what he was doing giving Blamire a run ahead of other hookers. And what was the point of capping and giving the captaincy to Ludlow and then dropping him?

[Stom]

Jones has capped a lot of players.
Problem is he's wasted a lot of caps on players he should have replaced and players who werent really up to it. The number of players who have got a handful of caps under Jones is pretty high.
Selection isnt a science but Jones has made some bad calls in giving caps and not giving caps to players who did deserve an opportunity.

Not sure its quite as extreme (wasted A LOT of caps- there are a lot of games now) as that, but the complaint was he doesn't try out young/new players, he certainly does. And he also does change his mind sometimes.

Which players are you calling out needed replacing, and when, out of interest? I'd have binned Youngs a few times (but then he produces a great performance ), Nowell, Farrell.

It wasn't. It was that the young blood isn't being given a chance. JVP and Steward are, great. Smith isn't, despite the caps, because he's working with dross. Heyes...well who else is there? And the rest have under that threshold for caps. Marchant, discarded. Willis, dropped time and again. TWillis, not picked once. Kenningham, picked once. Evans, ignored - maybe with merit, but still. Lawrence, picked and discarded. Murley, in the squad but ignored. The list can go on. Of those you mentioned, hardly any have been given any kind of consistent run. As soon as Manu and the Iceman are back, the midfield is Someone, Farrell, Manu...wings don't get the ball. Or Nowell... I think many of us have just had enough.

[Banquo]

Jones has capped a lot of players.
Problem is he's wasted a lot of caps on players he should have replaced and players who werent really up to it. The number of players who have got a handful of caps under Jones is pretty high.
Selection isnt a science but Jones has made some bad calls in giving caps and not giving caps to players who did deserve an opportunity.

Not sure its quite as extreme (wasted A LOT of caps- there are a lot of games now) as that, but the complaint was he doesn't try out young/new players, he certainly does. And he also does change his mind sometimes.

Which players are you calling out needed replacing, and when, out of interest? I'd have binned Youngs a few times (but then he produces a great performance ), Nowell, Farrell.

Hartley, Brown and Youngs are the ones that spring to mind. I think Farrell and Billy V's poor form hasnt resulted in being stood down when they should have. Capping Ewels has largely been a waste of time and i was never sure what he was doing giving Blamire a run ahead of other hookers. And what was the point of capping and giving the captaincy to Ludlow and then dropping him?

Well Hartley and Brown disappeared in time for the RWC iirc. Faz was dropped funnily - tho not enough, and Billy definitely was dropped and recalled when he was playing well- and played well. Ewels- yes. Ludlow -maybe, but a lot of competition. Its hardly a massive list, really?

[Spiffy]

Japan could be worth a sneaky bet here. Pretty sure Jamie Joseph will have been marinating something special for England.

Don't think that Joseph will need something special. Expect Japan to play their normal fast, running, handling game to move the ball and run the opposition ragged. It could well work too, especially against a sluggish England three quarter line containing a couple of donkeys in Farrell and Nowell; and the unproven Porter, who has looked nothing special and is lacking recent match-time.

[Banquo]

Jones has capped a lot of players.
Problem is he's wasted a lot of caps on players he should have replaced and players who werent really up to it. The number of players who have got a handful of caps under Jones is pretty high.
Selection isnt a science but Jones has made some bad calls in giving caps and not giving caps to players who did deserve an opportunity.

Not sure its quite as extreme (wasted A LOT of caps- there are a lot of games now) as that, but the complaint was he doesn't try out young/new players, he certainly does. And he also does change his mind sometimes.

Which players are you calling out needed replacing, and when, out of interest? I'd have binned Youngs a few times (but then he produces a great performance ), Nowell, Farrell.

It wasn't. It was that the young blood isn't being given a chance. JVP and Steward are, great. Smith isn't, despite the caps, because he's working with dross. Heyes...well who else is there? And the rest have under that threshold for caps. Marchant, discarded. Willis, dropped time and again. TWillis, not picked once. Kenningham, picked once. Evans, ignored - maybe with merit, but still. Lawrence, picked and discarded. Murley, in the squad but ignored. The list can go on. Of those you mentioned, hardly any have been given any kind of consistent run. As soon as Manu and the Iceman are back, the midfield is Someone, Farrell, Manu...wings don't get the ball. Or Nowell... I think many of us have just had enough.

Ok- well young players demonstrably are being given a chance. JVP, Freeman, Arundell, Chessum, Coles, Porter, Heyes, Rodd (that I can remember; you've listed others, and I could give chapter and verse on each eg J Willis not dropped time and again, but injured badly twice). You want them to get a chance in a functioning team....that's trickier. He calls all these guys up, so they at least get a shot.
You may have 'had enough', but looking at young players is not really an eddie problem. He set up the apprentices for example.
We probably are at odd over the definition of 'chance' v try-out. But he gave chances to JVP, Steward, Freeman, Chessum, Coles, Arundell, all of whom took them; now three are crocked, else we'd see them. How many more is it feasible to get in?

Oh and Cokanisiga, who he brought in very young and is still only 24/5.

[p/d]

Steady now. Don’t forget he sends then off to work on parts of their game. Should they come back into the fold he tells those who are prepared to take him seriously that by identifying their limitations he has made them better player’s. Bloody genius is our Eddie

[morepork]

Substitute special for tailored, and I think we can define a strategy for beating England, based on the donkeys you identify here.

[pompey-zebra]

Rodd, Steward

How do I feel about Eddie’s selection decisions?
I don’t want to talk about it, how Eddie broke my heart

You wear it well

Well eddie does pick the same old Faces.

[morepork]

I feel it in the air. It's there in absence of any flair. Oh Eddie, I'm losing you.

If you want my money.....