RugbyRebels

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:13 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:10 pm
Telegraph reckons Tuilagi's struggling for fitness ( )

Puja

Dors incoming…

What a fucking surprise! DT says he got a knock. How the hell can you play rugby and NOT get a knock. His selection is a simple waste of a squad slot.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 8:11 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:13 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:10 pm
Telegraph reckons Tuilagi's struggling for fitness ( )

Puja

Dors incoming…

What a fucking surprise! DT says he got a knock. How the hell can you play rugby and NOT get a knock. His selection is a simple waste of a squad slot.

This must be a dream come true for you.

Lucky we had some other exciting 12s tried and tested in the training camps, ready to step in if partially-fit, outside-centre Lawrence has any issue.

rjjb wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 1:21 am

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 9:03 pm

rjjb wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 8:48 pm That's a relatively pedestrian backline. Any hints re the pack?

Marchant, Daly, and Watson are all pretty rapid?

Puja

Seriously? By top international standards?

Watson is rapid by any standards.
Marchant is rapid for an outside centre.
Daly is quick.

We've had far slower.

I think Mitchell, Ford, Daly, Lawrence, Marchant, Watson, Steward is our strongest backline now. Yes an in-form and firing Manu is better than Lawrence but he's never fit, so I'd probably bench him and start bringing him on as an impact sub, or pick him only when 100% fit - but build on the basis of Lawrence and Marchant. I've said before, Marchant has only ever played very well for England in my view. People don't get excited about him because he's not a big guy. But he's a good defender, quick, intelligent etc. Very tidy player. Lawrence played very well for England of late so deserves to keep the shirt, Manu hasn't played well for England for years.

jngf wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 12:01 pm

fivepointer wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:05 am Ideally those who havent featured so far will get some game time.

8 will be an interesting call. Earl showed up well and there is a temptation to give him a run. I'd stand Steward down and have a look at someone else at FB.

My issue with starting Earl at 8 is that there may be a lot of heavy trucking in tight traffic needed and nobody does this better than Billy. Further for me Curry looks best at 6 rather than 7 and I think it suits his game better.

When was the last time Billy played really well for England jngf? And what does he actually do in heavy traffic at international level? He doesn't run through anyone, he's not that physical for some of these big French or South African guys and the Irish are so aggressive and technical they can deal with him. Oh, and he loses the ball in contact often. Earl is clearly at this point in his career a bit of a handful and over 80 mins much more likely to cause some havoc imo. Incidentally, I'd have picked T Willis in the squad too (instead of Billy) but hey ho.

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 9:58 am I'd like to see in terms of selection;

1. Genge (c)
2. Walker
3. Sinckler
4. Chessum
5. Itoje
6. Lawes
7. Curry
8. Earl
9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. Daly
12. Manu
13. Lawrence
14. Watson
15. Malins/Steward

Dan, Marler, Stuart, Ribbans, BillyV, Mitchell, Smith, Marchant.

Unsure whether to bring Steward back to start at the place he was unfairly red carded and which he admitted knocked his confidence. He does need resting for one of the friendlies. A few in there that are dependent on recovering from injury. Ireland's scrum does tend to tire and their replacements don't tend to be as good as their starting props, hopefully Marler can help exploit that.

Against a good scrummaging side, I think Genge and Sinckler have proved multiple times that they struggle. Sinckler no longer seems to add much value around the park to make up for it whereas Genge does, hence I think Genge and Stuart are the ones to persevere with, or start Marler and Cole - rotate between those four. Sinckler doesn't carry particularly well and gets mullered in the scrum these days.

Chessum is a marvellous prospect but I just hope that second row pairing isn't rag-dolled around... Hopefully having Lawes at 6 will help the pack out in the tight versus the big boys but not sure... I'd be tempted to start Ribbans and Itoje (or Hill and Itoje but I think Ribbans is a better player) and have Chessum on the bench covering 6 and lock. Tough one.

I liked the look of Mitchell off the bench but has he even started a game? Not that I’d be against it, but I feel like he’s hardly played or did he get some summer tour games a while back?

I would play Daly 13, outside Lawrence. Back 3 of Henry, Antony and Maximus

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 8:51 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 8:11 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:13 pm

Dors incoming…

What a fucking surprise! DT says he got a knock. How the hell can you play rugby and NOT get a knock. His selection is a simple waste of a squad slot.

This must be a dream come true for you.

Lucky we had some other exciting 12s tried and tested in the training camps, ready to step in if partially-fit, outside-centre Lawrence has any issue.

If I was taking a punt on an injury recovery for the 12 shirt it would have been Kelly. Realistically, though, why take either risk?

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:21 am I would play Daly 13, outside Lawrence. Back 3 of Henry, Antony and Maximus

Daly is not an international class OC, IMO.

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:21 am I would play Daly 13, outside Lawrence. Back 3 of Henry, Antony and Maximus

Daly would get torn apart at 13, like he has been daily at this level.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:14 am I liked the look of Mitchell off the bench but has he even started a game? Not that I’d be against it, but I feel like he’s hardly played or did he get some summer tour games a while back?

He looked good off the bench as you say (can't remember if he played on the tour?) but he's also a real livewire for Northampton - intelligent, busy, capable of lifting the tempo etc. You get called up for England because of a sustained period of great club form, you come off the bench multiple times and impress for England, then get dropped. Typical fcking story with English selection. He's looked extremely bright in an England shirt in his his cameos and deserves a shot, especially as the two older stagers are probably not the answer.

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:38 am

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:21 am I would play Daly 13, outside Lawrence. Back 3 of Henry, Antony and Maximus

Daly would get torn apart at 13, like he has been daily at this level.

Agreed. In attack, on paper at least it's a great idea - raking left boot, great footwork, gas, intelligent, pretty good distributor etc. But just not defensively solid (in all senses, not just physically) for an international midfield.

TheDasher wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:40 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:38 am

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:21 am I would play Daly 13, outside Lawrence. Back 3 of Henry, Antony and Maximus

Daly would get torn apart at 13, like he has been daily at this level.

Agreed. In attack, on paper at least it's a great idea - raking left boot, great footwork, gas, intelligent, pretty good distributor etc. But just not defensively solid (in all senses, not just physically) for an international midfield.

He just gets himself into the wrong positions to defend well there. He's a top class left wing, despite not really playing there much, and you can use some of the strong bits of his full back game there with a bit of thought.

TheDasher wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:39 am

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:14 am I liked the look of Mitchell off the bench but has he even started a game? Not that I’d be against it, but I feel like he’s hardly played or did he get some summer tour games a while back?

He looked good off the bench as you say (can't remember if he played on the tour?) but he's also a real livewire for Northampton - intelligent, busy, capable of lifting the tempo etc. You get called up for England because of a sustained period of great club form, you come off the bench multiple times and impress for England, then get dropped. Typical fcking story with English selection. He's looked extremely bright in an England shirt in his his cameos and deserves a shot, especially as the two older stagers are probably not the answer.

He has a lot of brainfarts unfortunately. But he offers something very different to Care and esp Youngs.

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:48 am

TheDasher wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:40 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:38 am

Daly would get torn apart at 13, like he has been daily at this level.

Agreed. In attack, on paper at least it's a great idea - raking left boot, great footwork, gas, intelligent, pretty good distributor etc. But just not defensively solid (in all senses, not just physically) for an international midfield.

He just gets himself into the wrong positions to defend well there. He's a top class left wing, despite not really playing there much, and you can use some of the strong bits of his full back game there with a bit of thought.

Yeah I feel like he can do all the good 13/15 bits in attack from the wing, whilst actually being positionally very good there.

I don’t feel like having him at 13 makes the best use of his kicking game either, not that it looked particularly impressive last Saturday.

I guess we need to have another option at 13 though, currently it’s just shuffle Lawrence out and out Faz at 12.

Team announcement delayed from 12 till 4pm, presumably so we can see if Farrell's going to be allowed to wear the 22 shirt.

Puja

Eurgh.

This debacle is making me feel ashamed to be a fan of the team. Just ban the dirty shit.

TheDasher wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:04 am

FKAS wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 9:58 am I'd like to see in terms of selection;

1. Genge (c)
2. Walker
3. Sinckler
4. Chessum
5. Itoje
6. Lawes
7. Curry
8. Earl
9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. Daly
12. Manu
13. Lawrence
14. Watson
15. Malins/Steward

Dan, Marler, Stuart, Ribbans, BillyV, Mitchell, Smith, Marchant.

Unsure whether to bring Steward back to start at the place he was unfairly red carded and which he admitted knocked his confidence. He does need resting for one of the friendlies. A few in there that are dependent on recovering from injury. Ireland's scrum does tend to tire and their replacements don't tend to be as good as their starting props, hopefully Marler can help exploit that.

Against a good scrummaging side, I think Genge and Sinckler have proved multiple times that they struggle. Sinckler no longer seems to add much value around the park to make up for it whereas Genge does, hence I think Genge and Stuart are the ones to persevere with, or start Marler and Cole - rotate between those four. Sinckler doesn't carry particularly well and gets mullered in the scrum these days.

Chessum is a marvellous prospect but I just hope that second row pairing isn't rag-dolled around... Hopefully having Lawes at 6 will help the pack out in the tight versus the big boys but not sure... I'd be tempted to start Ribbans and Itoje (or Hill and Itoje but I think Ribbans is a better player) and have Chessum on the bench covering 6 and lock. Tough one.

My thoughts were that some of the players need game time. Sinckler has played one half and as much as I love Big Dan's exploits he's going as third choice tighthead. Sinckler needs to be match sharp whereas Stuart has started the last two games.

Genge has previously done well Vs Furlong, remember the 7 man scrum after Ewels sending off winning multiple penalties? True he's not as good as Marler but he's good enough when it comes to the scrum.

Chessum needs game time so I'd have gone with that option there, he could be on the bench it's more important to get him and Ribbans minutes at this point than it is anything else. As Chessum was one of the few positives in the 6N I don't really have much concern playing him. At 6ft7 and 18st8lbs he isn't exactly small and depending on the preferred source either a couple of kilos heavier or lighter than Ribbans at the same height. Can't see the one being selected over the other as likely to make much difference in being rag dolled around.

Whilst I want a stronger squad to keep it competitive we also need to get match fitness into some likely first 23 players.

TheDasher wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:39 am

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:14 am I liked the look of Mitchell off the bench but has he even started a game? Not that I’d be against it, but I feel like he’s hardly played or did he get some summer tour games a while back?

He looked good off the bench as you say (can't remember if he played on the tour?) but he's also a real livewire for Northampton - intelligent, busy, capable of lifting the tempo etc. You get called up for England because of a sustained period of great club form, you come off the bench multiple times and impress for England, then get dropped. Typical fcking story with English selection. He's looked extremely bright in an England shirt in his his cameos and deserves a shot, especially as the two older stagers are probably not the answer.

He was dreadful Vs France (not the only one mind). Threw an interception whilst on their try line. Stood and watched Smith get carried over the line and Olivon ground it. He switches off way to easily.

Certainly is a livewire, I can only remember him really impressing Vs Italy though. I'd like Steely Ban to have a look at him in that impact 9 role again though. Get him coming off the bench and upping the tempo.

TheDasher wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:00 am

jngf wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 12:01 pm

fivepointer wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:05 am Ideally those who havent featured so far will get some game time.

8 will be an interesting call. Earl showed up well and there is a temptation to give him a run. I'd stand Steward down and have a look at someone else at FB.

My issue with starting Earl at 8 is that there may be a lot of heavy trucking in tight traffic needed and nobody does this better than Billy. Further for me Curry looks best at 6 rather than 7 and I think it suits his game better.

When was the last time Billy played really well for England jngf? And what does he actually do in heavy traffic at international level? He doesn't run through anyone, he's not that physical for some of these big French or South African guys and the Irish are so aggressive and technical they can deal with him. Oh, and he loses the ball in contact often. Earl is clearly at this point in his career a bit of a handful and over 80 mins much more likely to cause some havoc imo. Incidentally, I'd have picked T Willis in the squad too (instead of Billy) but hey ho.

I actually agree with you Dasher that Billy does not have the same impact as he had in his 20s - however he’s still got that immensely powerful core and thigh strength for tight close quarters carrying and I think Earl is much better used in the wider channels from flank, otherwise I fear he may end of looking like an Erstaz Sam Simmonds at 8

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 10:03 am Team announcement delayed from 12 till 4pm, presumably so we can see if Farrell's going to be allowed to wear the 22 shirt.

Puja

You are mostly likely right but I thought they were waiting on a fitness test for Chessa

Daly would be drilling the oppo backwards all day long from 13 berth, apparently Faz Snr fears we will start him there.

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 10:57 am

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 10:03 am Team announcement delayed from 12 till 4pm, presumably so we can see if Farrell's going to be allowed to wear the 22 shirt.

Puja

You are mostly likely right but I thought they were waiting on a fitness test for Chessa

That's worrying if true - we shouldn't be taking him if his fitness is so touch and go that he's struggling to make the penultimate warmup game, and we definitely shouldn't be rushing him back if he's not fully recovered. Would rather have 10 years of OChessum than utterly bork him now.

Puja

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 10:59 am Daly would be drilling the oppo backwards all day long from 13 berth, apparently Faz Snr fears we will start him there.

meanwhile, when the mescaline wears off.....