Ireland vs England - 5:30pm Saturday

[Mikey Brown]

So what changes do people want to see? Or what is sensible in terms of managing selection until the Argentina game?

Obviously the fitness of Curry and Tuilagi is key, along with a couple of other players (Lawrence, Martin) looking like they were already held together with tape. Is Watson on that list too? We haven't seen him either, right?

How much do we want Ford to play in Farrell's absence?

Do we go full first team or continue to rotate a few names in and out? George, Itoje, Lawes, Youngs, Watson, Steward are the nailed-on selections as far as I can tell. How many of them do we want to risk and how many still need minutes? Resting too many almost feels like throwing the game, but surely we need some idea of whether the back-ups (at least at 2 and 15) can do it against a serious opposition.

Any sense of how close to full strength Ireland will be?

[jngf]

I suspect because of the captaincy issue Lawes is more nailed on but I think T Curry, J Willis and Ludlam are all better 6s. Would be happy enough with Lawes at 4 or on the bench.

[Tom Moore]

If it were me, I'd be wrapping George in cotton wool now, partly to get as many minutes into the two young lads as possible, partly because the thought of either of them starting a meaningful game currently fills me with dread. I'd like to see Curry, Tuilagi and Watson this week if possible. Arundell could do with some minutes at full back, as could Malins (actually, Malins just needs minutes full stop so he can go to the wing). I'd prefer Lawes in the second row in general, and I'd like Itoje to have a week off.

[Mikey Brown]

I don't think Lawes starting at lock is an option anymore, rightly or wrongly. Though he did cover well there when Ewels got sent off I just can't see him being moved back outside of a card/injury situation. Neither player or coaches seem to want it. Anybody know the latest on Chessum?

I'd play Arundell on the wing and Malins at 15 if anything. Arundell's only route to the team is showing he can play wing, but Malins already seems to be one of Borthwick's favourites and knowing he can cover 15 (god knows we couldn't ask Daly/Watson) might keep him in the 23. Neither of them fill me with confidence when it comes to playing Ireland but maybe Steward needs a break.

I'd like to give Daly another start at 11 and see Tuilagi start at 12 alongside Marchant if it.

[Puja]

The question is, do we want to get game time into our 1st XV and our combinations (given that they've hardly looked coherent and on the same wavelength so far) or do we want to shut up shop and wrap people in cotton wool. I'd say we still need to do the former and keep the Fiji game for gametime for our squad players.

The only exception to that is George, who we absolutely cannot replace and cannot afford to break.

Puja

[p/d]

Bang all of them out there. George as likely to injure himself racing Daiquiri Care to the bar as he is 60mins v Ireland. That said I have no problems giving Dan a full run out.

[Banquo]

The question is, do we want to get game time into our 1st XV and our combinations (given that they've hardly looked coherent and on the same wavelength so far) or do we want to shut up shop and wrap people in cotton wool. I'd say we still need to do the former and keep the Fiji game for gametime for our squad players.

The only exception to that is George, who we absolutely cannot replace and cannot afford to break.

Puja

beat me to the punch. Mind, not sure slighly bereft knows what his 1st XV is.

Genge, George, x, Itoje, x, Lawes, Curry, Billy, Youngs, Ford, x,x,x,x, Steward would seem to be it; but Billy could be y.

[Oakboy]

Has it not simply reached the point where disruption from a lack of cohesion is more damaging than that from injuries? Pick the 1st XV.

[Mellsblue]

The question is, do we want to get game time into our 1st XV and our combinations (given that they've hardly looked coherent and on the same wavelength so far) or do we want to shut up shop and wrap people in cotton wool. I'd say we still need to do the former and keep the Fiji game for gametime for our squad players.

The only exception to that is George, who we absolutely cannot replace and cannot afford to break.

Puja

beat me to the punch. Mind, not sure slighly bereft knows what his 1st XV is.

Genge, George, x, Itoje, x, Lawes, Curry, Billy, Youngs, Ford, x,x,x,x, Steward would seem to be it; but Billy could be y.

I think you can add Chessum, if fit, and Watson. Feel like we’ve had this convo before, too!

[Oakboy]

The question is, do we want to get game time into our 1st XV and our combinations (given that they've hardly looked coherent and on the same wavelength so far) or do we want to shut up shop and wrap people in cotton wool. I'd say we still need to do the former and keep the Fiji game for gametime for our squad players.

The only exception to that is George, who we absolutely cannot replace and cannot afford to break.

Puja

beat me to the punch. Mind, not sure slighly bereft knows what his 1st XV is.

Genge, George, x, Itoje, x, Lawes, Curry, Billy, Youngs, Ford, x,x,x,x, Steward would seem to be it; but Billy could be y.

I think you can add Chessum, if fit, and Watson. Feel like we’ve had this convo before, too!

Has Stuart not taken possession of the 3 shirt?

[Banquo]

The question is, do we want to get game time into our 1st XV and our combinations (given that they've hardly looked coherent and on the same wavelength so far) or do we want to shut up shop and wrap people in cotton wool. I'd say we still need to do the former and keep the Fiji game for gametime for our squad players.

The only exception to that is George, who we absolutely cannot replace and cannot afford to break.

Puja

beat me to the punch. Mind, not sure slighly bereft knows what his 1st XV is.

Genge, George, x, Itoje, x, Lawes, Curry, Billy, Youngs, Ford, x,x,x,x, Steward would seem to be it; but Billy could be y.

I think you can add Chessum, if fit, and Watson. Feel like we’ve had this convo before, too!

Nah. Faz wasn't banned

[Banquo]

beat me to the punch. Mind, not sure slighly bereft knows what his 1st XV is.

Genge, George, x, Itoje, x, Lawes, Curry, Billy, Youngs, Ford, x,x,x,x, Steward would seem to be it; but Billy could be y.

I think you can add Chessum, if fit, and Watson. Feel like we’ve had this convo before, too!

Has Stuart not taken possession of the 3 shirt?

mullered saturday I believe.

[Mikey Brown]

Has it not simply reached the point where disruption from a lack of cohesion is more damaging than that from injuries? Pick the 1st XV.

First XV or same XV?

You could argue Genge, Sinkler, Chessum, Curry, Youngs (by default), Ford, Watson are in one but not the other. Though that's 7 changes.

Despite the bulk of this squad being together for long time it doesn't feel like Borthwick has much in the way of cohesion to fall back on.

[Mellsblue]

I think you can add Chessum, if fit, and Watson. Feel like we’ve had this convo before, too!

Has Stuart not taken possession of the 3 shirt?

mullered saturday I believe.

Yep and pretty anonymous in the loose, iirc.

[Banquo]

Looks like Faz is available ffs.

Bad decision imo- bad signals. His technique was and always is shyte.

[Insouciant]

Let's concentrate on the positives. Yes, we aren't looking great in attack but the best thing about England is defence. Our legal defence, for Farrell to get away with that we must have a an OJ Simpson/Casey Anthony level legal team.

[Oakboy]

Has it not simply reached the point where disruption from a lack of cohesion is more damaging than that from injuries? Pick the 1st XV.

First XV or same XV?

You could argue Genge, Sinkler, Chessum, Curry, Youngs (by default), Ford, Watson are in one but not the other. Though that's 7 changes.

Despite the bulk of this squad being together for long time it doesn't feel like Borthwick has much in the way of cohesion to fall back on.

I just think that SB should pick HIS 1st XV, stick with it and build cohesion. So far in the two warm-ups it looks like the players don't even recognise each other.

[Morton]

Stange feeling. Supported England for many many years. Lots of highs and lows ( mostly lows) since 2003. Not much fun these last few years. Witnessing the stodge they have served up these last weeks especially combined with the whooping and yelling when they win a penalty and now this Farrell debacle. On comes George Ford to say how our glorious leader is back to inspire us mere mortals again. Disappointed in him doing his best Mike Pence on his knees before Trump imitation. Feel so dejected I hope Ireland stuff England on Saturday the same as I hoped Wales would have closed the game out last week.

[TheDasher]

Completely agree with Oakboy, SB should pick his starting team (I get the resting George part) for the next two games and try and build up to a rolling start vs Argentina. I don't think Billy V should be in that side either, he has been poor for England for years now. Start Earl at 8. He may be a small number 8 but Lawes is a big 6.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Stange feeling. Supported England for many many years. Lots of highs and lows ( mostly lows) since 2003. Not much fun these last few years. Witnessing the stodge they have served up these last weeks especially combined with the whooping and yelling when they win a penalty and now this Farrell debacle. On comes George Ford to say how our glorious leader is back to inspire us mere mortals again. Disappointed in him doing his best Mike Pence on his knees before Trump imitation. Feel so dejected I hope Ireland stuff England on Saturday the same as I hoped Wales would have closed the game out last week.

Yeah, this kind of corruption (if that's the right word) drags everyone into it. People end up defending the indefensible (even if they can't help the truth slipping out).

[FKAS]

Stange feeling. Supported England for many many years. Lots of highs and lows ( mostly lows) since 2003. Not much fun these last few years. Witnessing the stodge they have served up these last weeks especially combined with the whooping and yelling when they win a penalty and now this Farrell debacle. On comes George Ford to say how our glorious leader is back to inspire us mere mortals again. Disappointed in him doing his best Mike Pence on his knees before Trump imitation. Feel so dejected I hope Ireland stuff England on Saturday the same as I hoped Wales would have closed the game out last week.

What was Ford supposed to say about the squad captain mere weeks from the world cup? Farrell also being a childhood friend. Hardly going to walk out and say he's a liability and I can't believe he's not been suspended. No professional is going to act so stupidly.

[Spiffy]

Bang all of them out there. George as likely to injure himself racing Daiquiri Care to the bar as he is 60mins v Ireland. That said I have no problems giving Dan a full run out.

George is too well padded to pick up a serious injury.

[Mikey Brown]

Didn’t Ford ‘accidentally’ use the phrase “got away with” when he spoke about it earlier?

[Danno]

I suspect because of the captaincy issue Lawes is more nailed on but I think T Curry, J Willis and Ludlam are all better 6s. Would be happy enough with Lawes at 4 or on the bench.

....Did you just praise Tom Curry?

[Oakboy]

I suspect because of the captaincy issue Lawes is more nailed on but I think T Curry, J Willis and Ludlam are all better 6s. Would be happy enough with Lawes at 4 or on the bench.

....Did you just praise Tom Curry?

Curry is stil unfit according to the DT.